The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
So this "Monica" is still in business? Haven't the banks learn by now?
USCTrojanCPA said:
[IHB] Closed Sales from 3/1/2012 to 3/7/2012
- Thread starter zovall
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
I agree with you that short sales and REOs typically sell at a lower price point than a comparable standard sale. This is due in part to the fact that only a subset of the total purchasers can/will seek these homes due to financing constraints, time constraints, and risk tolerance. They typically also sell for a lower price point to offset the need to compensate for deferred maintenance, unpaid taxes, or other increased buyer costs.
[quote author=LAtoOC]IR - "commercially reasonable period of time" is where Short Sales should be excluded. [/quote]
In the fraudulent cases that USC has alluded to, you are correct, especially if offers have been withheld or the property has otherwise not been openly marketed.
In general, though, (solely based on my own experience) I disagree. The lenders do have some strict requirements in the selling of the REOs and short sales. These include providing showing reports, copies of the MLS sheets, and often requiring that the home be on the market for X number of days before any offers will be considered. The bank's negotiators, asset managers, and final investor decisions are not interested in giving away any of their money and do their best to protect their interests (against fraud, etc.) through doing their own appraisals and setting required practices. They can be a major PITA to deal with.
my .02 cents:
It is never just the price. Always consider the whole package.
For that particular buyer and that particular seller, it was market price, all things considered.
-IrvineRealtor
21 Breezes, a Plan One, located one street over closed for $1,088,000.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Breezes-92620/home/5959324
It's smaller, backs up Trabuco and gets the same amount of noise as 20 Lookout yet it sold for quite a bit ($78k) more
Yes. It's not too late to report it, and it WILL help to prevent others from going through the same problems.
In the fraudulent cases that USC has alluded to, you are correct, especially if offers have been withheld or the property has otherwise not been openly marketed.
In general, though, (solely based on my own experience) I disagree. The lenders do have some strict requirements in the selling of the REOs and short sales. These include providing showing reports, copies of the MLS sheets, and often requiring that the home be on the market for X number of days before any offers will be considered. The bank's negotiators, asset managers, and final investor decisions are not interested in giving away any of their money and do their best to protect their interests (against fraud, etc.) through doing their own appraisals and setting required practices. They can be a major PITA to deal with.
my .02 cents:
It is never just the price. Always consider the whole package.
For that particular buyer and that particular seller, it was market price, all things considered.
-IrvineRealtor
[/quote]
I have to disagree with some lenders having strict standards to prevent fraud and that asset managers are not interested in giving away money.
There was a house in my old Irvine neighborhood where the owner of the short sale home was married (not in the U.S. so there is no trail) to the R.E. agent (the agent lived in the home until he bought another home and they moved). The agent listed the home for hundreds of thousands less that market value at that time. The day after he listed it, he put in in pending status. A week later I saw the agent (whose wife 'legally' owns the home) and for some reason he told me that he had one of his relatives submit a very low ball offer so he could put it into pending status and he was going to make money with his relative in reselling the home after he gets it through the short sale process.
So it sat in pending for a long time (short sale typical), I was selling my home and was very annoyed since his crappy numbers made it harder in my negotiations with potential buyers. I felt what he was doing was very underhanded and also hurt my interests so I called his lender and spoke to the manager of the asset managers who handled the loans in my area. I told them all the details and gave names, dates and what the agent told me and that the seller and agent are married in another country. The asset manager basically sounded like I wasted her time and told me that they will look into it. Two months later the home sold for the low ball price and a couple weeks after that the home was back on the market for market price and guess who was the agent! Yep, same guy. When he saw that I was in escrow he was asking me how many offers and what was the offer amounts were. I was pissed so I gave him low numbers and watched him freak out thinking that he was not going to make those six figure numbers he probably promised his relative. His house did sell and he made a tidy sum so the cheaters do prosper.
I have to disagree with some lenders having strict standards to prevent fraud and that asset managers are not interested in giving away money.
There was a house in my old Irvine neighborhood where the owner of the short sale home was married (not in the U.S. so there is no trail) to the R.E. agent (the agent lived in the home until he bought another home and they moved). The agent listed the home for hundreds of thousands less that market value at that time. The day after he listed it, he put in in pending status. A week later I saw the agent (whose wife 'legally' owns the home) and for some reason he told me that he had one of his relatives submit a very low ball offer so he could put it into pending status and he was going to make money with his relative in reselling the home after he gets it through the short sale process.
So it sat in pending for a long time (short sale typical), I was selling my home and was very annoyed since his crappy numbers made it harder in my negotiations with potential buyers. I felt what he was doing was very underhanded and also hurt my interests so I called his lender and spoke to the manager of the asset managers who handled the loans in my area. I told them all the details and gave names, dates and what the agent told me and that the seller and agent are married in another country. The asset manager basically sounded like I wasted her time and told me that they will look into it. Two months later the home sold for the low ball price and a couple weeks after that the home was back on the market for market price and guess who was the agent! Yep, same guy. When he saw that I was in escrow he was asking me how many offers and what was the offer amounts were. I was pissed so I gave him low numbers and watched him freak out thinking that he was not going to make those six figure numbers he probably promised his relative. His house did sell and he made a tidy sum so the cheaters do prosper.
[/quote]
I've also seen similar type of transactions where a short sale closed for a very low price and then within 3-6 months the property was back on the market at a more normal price. The listing agent of the short sale represented the buyer and then was the listing agent on the normal sale. That's not only double dipping, but that's dipping to the Nth degree. If that doesn't smell of fraud, I don't know what does.
Just in this thread, we had 2 great examples of how shady short sales can be. The problem is more widespread than people think.
That might be true with a lot of the agents out there but from my own personal experience,
USCTrojanMan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 realtor. I'm sure it would be the same with IrvineRealtor.
irvinerealtor
Well-known member
rkp said:
I agree with you that short sales and REOs typically sell at a lower price point than a comparable standard sale. This is due in part to the fact that only a subset of the total purchasers can/will seek these homes due to financing constraints, time constraints, and risk tolerance. They typically also sell for a lower price point to offset the need to compensate for deferred maintenance, unpaid taxes, or other increased buyer costs.
[quote author=LAtoOC]IR - "commercially reasonable period of time" is where Short Sales should be excluded. [/quote]
In the fraudulent cases that USC has alluded to, you are correct, especially if offers have been withheld or the property has otherwise not been openly marketed.
In general, though, (solely based on my own experience) I disagree. The lenders do have some strict requirements in the selling of the REOs and short sales. These include providing showing reports, copies of the MLS sheets, and often requiring that the home be on the market for X number of days before any offers will be considered. The bank's negotiators, asset managers, and final investor decisions are not interested in giving away any of their money and do their best to protect their interests (against fraud, etc.) through doing their own appraisals and setting required practices. They can be a major PITA to deal with.
my .02 cents:
It is never just the price. Always consider the whole package.
For that particular buyer and that particular seller, it was market price, all things considered.
-IrvineRealtor
is this an example? this never hit the market, it just hit as "pending"... listed at a WAY below market price...
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/66-Secret-Gdn-92620/home/5931229
there was another home in this same tract on Bamboo that never closed. the listing agent was demanding $20,000 out of escrow...
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/66-Secret-Gdn-92620/home/5931229
there was another home in this same tract on Bamboo that never closed. the listing agent was demanding $20,000 out of escrow...
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
I'm shocked Monica isn't the listing agent on this one, she must be slipping. I know which house on Bamboo you are talking about, I submitted an offer on it and he never acknowledged it even though I e-mailed him a handful of time and left several voicemails to follow up.akim997 said:
yeah it was weird. first he said it was for "back taxes"... but i checked the www.oc.gov site and it said current... then he just said he wanted cash... ouch...
timing was a bit off, but another (short sale) plan just closed in Camelia for $790... I just hope the market keeps coming down to the magic $781,250...
timing was a bit off, but another (short sale) plan just closed in Camelia for $790... I just hope the market keeps coming down to the magic $781,250...
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
It's realturds like that who need to be flushed out of the system. You didn't happen to get that via e-mail or voicemail, eh?akim997 said:
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Why not report these agents?
If you guys feel there is fraud... blow the whistle!
If you guys feel there is fraud... blow the whistle!
WoodburyDad
New member
WoodburyDad said:
21 Breezes, a Plan One, located one street over closed for $1,088,000.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Breezes-92620/home/5959324
It's smaller, backs up Trabuco and gets the same amount of noise as 20 Lookout yet it sold for quite a bit ($78k) more
I realize this sounds harsh but I think there are more unethical agents than ethical ones. With such a low barrier to entry and the sheer amount of dollars to be made, you get lots of sleazy folks.
I wrote about my experience with an agent and short sale owner wanting $30K under the table after close of escrow. Most of this was discussed over the phone or in person and when I raised concerns about the amount and the fraud issues, the agent wrote this back: "How about you buying the 3 furniture sets for $15,000 and we will not request any more. The owner of the furniture is ________ and she is not the owner of the house. I still have to convince the sellers, but I think it's possible."
Sure I can forward to DRE but really, will anything be done? When redfin did their scouting report, RE agents were in an uproar and that was just taking MLS data and displaying it for buyers to make a better decision.
I wrote about my experience with an agent and short sale owner wanting $30K under the table after close of escrow. Most of this was discussed over the phone or in person and when I raised concerns about the amount and the fraud issues, the agent wrote this back: "How about you buying the 3 furniture sets for $15,000 and we will not request any more. The owner of the furniture is ________ and she is not the owner of the house. I still have to convince the sellers, but I think it's possible."
Sure I can forward to DRE but really, will anything be done? When redfin did their scouting report, RE agents were in an uproar and that was just taking MLS data and displaying it for buyers to make a better decision.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@rkp:
I've heard similar stories. The reason why this probably doesn't get reported is because the buyer is usually getting a very good discount and since they are "in" they don't want to "lose" their opportunity.
In your case, since you didn't get the place, you should report them, but I guess that could endanger future transactions if that particular agent is the representing the next home (unless you can do it anonymously).
Maybe that's why shorts take so long... a buyer balks at the "furniture clause" so they move to the next one until they find a "willing" buyer.
I've heard similar stories. The reason why this probably doesn't get reported is because the buyer is usually getting a very good discount and since they are "in" they don't want to "lose" their opportunity.
In your case, since you didn't get the place, you should report them, but I guess that could endanger future transactions if that particular agent is the representing the next home (unless you can do it anonymously).
Maybe that's why shorts take so long... a buyer balks at the "furniture clause" so they move to the next one until they find a "willing" buyer.
irvinerealtor
Well-known member
rkp said:
Yes. It's not too late to report it, and it WILL help to prevent others from going through the same problems.
davenlei
New member
IrvineRealtor said:
In the fraudulent cases that USC has alluded to, you are correct, especially if offers have been withheld or the property has otherwise not been openly marketed.
In general, though, (solely based on my own experience) I disagree. The lenders do have some strict requirements in the selling of the REOs and short sales. These include providing showing reports, copies of the MLS sheets, and often requiring that the home be on the market for X number of days before any offers will be considered. The bank's negotiators, asset managers, and final investor decisions are not interested in giving away any of their money and do their best to protect their interests (against fraud, etc.) through doing their own appraisals and setting required practices. They can be a major PITA to deal with.
my .02 cents:
It is never just the price. Always consider the whole package.
For that particular buyer and that particular seller, it was market price, all things considered.
-IrvineRealtor
[/quote]
I have to disagree with some lenders having strict standards to prevent fraud and that asset managers are not interested in giving away money.
There was a house in my old Irvine neighborhood where the owner of the short sale home was married (not in the U.S. so there is no trail) to the R.E. agent (the agent lived in the home until he bought another home and they moved). The agent listed the home for hundreds of thousands less that market value at that time. The day after he listed it, he put in in pending status. A week later I saw the agent (whose wife 'legally' owns the home) and for some reason he told me that he had one of his relatives submit a very low ball offer so he could put it into pending status and he was going to make money with his relative in reselling the home after he gets it through the short sale process.
So it sat in pending for a long time (short sale typical), I was selling my home and was very annoyed since his crappy numbers made it harder in my negotiations with potential buyers. I felt what he was doing was very underhanded and also hurt my interests so I called his lender and spoke to the manager of the asset managers who handled the loans in my area. I told them all the details and gave names, dates and what the agent told me and that the seller and agent are married in another country. The asset manager basically sounded like I wasted her time and told me that they will look into it. Two months later the home sold for the low ball price and a couple weeks after that the home was back on the market for market price and guess who was the agent! Yep, same guy. When he saw that I was in escrow he was asking me how many offers and what was the offer amounts were. I was pissed so I gave him low numbers and watched him freak out thinking that he was not going to make those six figure numbers he probably promised his relative. His house did sell and he made a tidy sum so the cheaters do prosper.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@davenlei:
Did you report him to the DRE?
Did you report him to the DRE?
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
davenlei said:
I have to disagree with some lenders having strict standards to prevent fraud and that asset managers are not interested in giving away money.
There was a house in my old Irvine neighborhood where the owner of the short sale home was married (not in the U.S. so there is no trail) to the R.E. agent (the agent lived in the home until he bought another home and they moved). The agent listed the home for hundreds of thousands less that market value at that time. The day after he listed it, he put in in pending status. A week later I saw the agent (whose wife 'legally' owns the home) and for some reason he told me that he had one of his relatives submit a very low ball offer so he could put it into pending status and he was going to make money with his relative in reselling the home after he gets it through the short sale process.
So it sat in pending for a long time (short sale typical), I was selling my home and was very annoyed since his crappy numbers made it harder in my negotiations with potential buyers. I felt what he was doing was very underhanded and also hurt my interests so I called his lender and spoke to the manager of the asset managers who handled the loans in my area. I told them all the details and gave names, dates and what the agent told me and that the seller and agent are married in another country. The asset manager basically sounded like I wasted her time and told me that they will look into it. Two months later the home sold for the low ball price and a couple weeks after that the home was back on the market for market price and guess who was the agent! Yep, same guy. When he saw that I was in escrow he was asking me how many offers and what was the offer amounts were. I was pissed so I gave him low numbers and watched him freak out thinking that he was not going to make those six figure numbers he probably promised his relative. His house did sell and he made a tidy sum so the cheaters do prosper.
[/quote]
I've also seen similar type of transactions where a short sale closed for a very low price and then within 3-6 months the property was back on the market at a more normal price. The listing agent of the short sale represented the buyer and then was the listing agent on the normal sale. That's not only double dipping, but that's dipping to the Nth degree. If that doesn't smell of fraud, I don't know what does.
Just in this thread, we had 2 great examples of how shady short sales can be. The problem is more widespread than people think.
irvinehusky
New member
SoCal78 said:
That might be true with a lot of the agents out there but from my own personal experience,
USCTrojanMan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 realtor. I'm sure it would be the same with IrvineRealtor.