If you are waiting What are you waiting for?

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[quote author="SoCal78" date=1224147129][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224141211][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


I agree. A house is not something you buy low and sell high, or something you take equity out of to buy a car. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.</blockquote>


Most savvy people prefer their house to be an asset rather than a liability... unless, of course, you wipe your @$$ with dollar bills.</blockquote>


Unless you pay cash, your house is a liability until you pay off your mortgage. No reason there can't be smart buys even in this housing market.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224141211][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


I agree. A house is not something you buy low and sell high, or something you take equity out of to buy a car. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.</blockquote>


We bought a home low and sold high and we do not seem to be in any particular mess. Why would anyone judge someone else's motivations for buying or selling a home? To some a home may be an investment and a domicile. To others, it may be a domicile only. What would make anyone think that their opinion of someone else's reason for buying or selling a home are any more noble, justified, or relevant than the owner's opinion.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


If you lose 20% of your home value when you buy maybe you should start thinking about your home in different ways. If money doesn't matter to you then asking the question is just silly.
 
[quote author="JLegend" date=1224141925][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


because renting sucks. I'm not saying people should over extend themselves and not do their research, but you can't expect everyone to not participate in the housing market. A plan of renting into 2011 or continuing to live at home with moms and dad might appeal to some people, but we're not even into 2009 yet. If you got the ends, and can find a nice place you'll enjoy, might as well go for it. I've seen some of the posts here tracking various homes and how much they've dropped, but am I the only one to think most of them are hideous to begin with? Some homes there is a reason they dropped by 40%. Some homes, some of you are baffled that they still retain their value. There is a difference between desirable and non-desirable property, but it seems that that distinction is lost sometimes here.</blockquote>


So you say "renting sucks." I don't see the value in that statement. You have 2 identical homes, one has a mortgage payment the other has a rent payment. But renting sucks! Doesn't make sense. One scenario could cause you a hugh loss and the other causes no loss. I don't see how waiting it out in the exact same house sucks.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224141211][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


I agree. A house is not something you buy low and sell high, or something you take equity out of to buy a car. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.</blockquote>


LOL that has got to be the most illogical statement I've ever read. For the very reason we are in this mess is because people bought high (at the top) and sold and/or walked away, at the lows, and now the rest of us are paying for your lousy decisions. Wow, I never thought I'd read a more misguided observation. I never said treat your home as an investment, rather I am warning you to use some common sense.
 
[quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224153960][quote author="JLegend" date=1224141925][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


because renting sucks. I'm not saying people should over extend themselves and not do their research, but you can't expect everyone to not participate in the housing market. A plan of renting into 2011 or continuing to live at home with moms and dad might appeal to some people, but we're not even into 2009 yet. If you got the ends, and can find a nice place you'll enjoy, might as well go for it. I've seen some of the posts here tracking various homes and how much they've dropped, but am I the only one to think most of them are hideous to begin with? Some homes there is a reason they dropped by 40%. Some homes, some of you are baffled that they still retain their value. There is a difference between desirable and non-desirable property, but it seems that that distinction is lost sometimes here.</blockquote>


So you say "renting sucks." I don't see the value in that statement. You have 2 identical homes, one has a mortgage payment the other has a rent payment. But renting sucks! Doesn't make sense. One scenario could cause you a hugh loss and the other causes no loss. I don't see how waiting it out in the exact same house sucks.</blockquote>


Maybe he hates moving? Maybe he wants to be able to do modifications. I can see why people wouldn't want to rent. Its not crazy. Just depends how much of a risk you want to take...
 
I am wondering if people that are willing and wanting to buy now when they fully expect prices to drop further just offer up list price on homes they want? If it's affordable and future equity loss doesn't matter, why try to get a deal on a place?!
 
[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1224160935]I am wondering if people that are willing and wanting to buy now when they fully expect prices to drop further just offer up list price on homes they want? If it's affordable and future equity loss doesn't matter, why try to get a deal on a place?!</blockquote>


oh come on.
 
[quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224153960][quote author="JLegend" date=1224141925][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


because renting sucks. I'm not saying people should over extend themselves and not do their research, but you can't expect everyone to not participate in the housing market. A plan of renting into 2011 or continuing to live at home with moms and dad might appeal to some people, but we're not even into 2009 yet. If you got the ends, and can find a nice place you'll enjoy, might as well go for it. I've seen some of the posts here tracking various homes and how much they've dropped, but am I the only one to think most of them are hideous to begin with? Some homes there is a reason they dropped by 40%. Some homes, some of you are baffled that they still retain their value. There is a difference between desirable and non-desirable property, but it seems that that distinction is lost sometimes here.</blockquote>


So you say "renting sucks." I don't see the value in that statement. You have 2 identical homes, one has a mortgage payment the other has a rent payment. But renting sucks! Doesn't make sense. One scenario could cause you a hugh loss and the other causes no loss. I don't see how waiting it out in the exact same house sucks.</blockquote>


I understand the "renting sucks" statement. When you rent, you most likely can't decorate or customize your home to taste. An owned version of two identical homes is likely to look quite different from a rented version. For example, I prefer solid surface counter tops, and if I owned the place I lived in, I sure as heck wouldn't have the 10-year old white ceramic tile on the kitchen counters. Also, the is a lack of permanence with regards to renting that "sucks" to a degree. I have no idea how long my landlord will want to rent to me. If I owned the house where I live, my kids could count on going to a particular school, make neighborhood friends, etc. Since I rent, that is not necessarily the case. Also, think we can all agree that moving definitely sucks, and with renting you obviously have to do that more often...



Renting vs. owning is about more than the four walls and mortgage vs. rent payment. There is value to the intangibles, at least to me...
 
[quote author="JLegend" date=1224161181][quote author="ipoplaya" date=1224160935]I am wondering if people that are willing and wanting to buy now when they fully expect prices to drop further just offer up list price on homes they want? If it's affordable and future equity loss doesn't matter, why try to get a deal on a place?!</blockquote>


oh come on.</blockquote>


Just seems non-sensical to me that the "home is not an asset or investment" crowd would haggle on price when they go to buy, especially if buying now when future price declines are pretty much a given. If a 10% loss down the line is a non-factor, why haggle over $20K today?
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224141211][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


I agree. A house is not something you buy low and sell high, or something you take equity out of to buy a car. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.</blockquote>


I took equity out of my house to buy a car... Actually did it twice.



Why pay 6-7% non-deductible interest to a car company or bank when I could finance the purchase via my mortgage at 5% AND get a tax deduction on it? You think paying 7% after-tax interest on a car loan is smarter than 3.5% after-tax on that same loan via a mortgage?



If you keep the borrowing to within comfortable budgetary metrics, i.e. don't push your mortgage to 50% DTI to buy a car, financing a vehicle via a mortgage can be a prudent and smart financial decision. It can save you money every month...
 
[quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224154135][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224141211][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224139991][quote author="norcaljeff" date=1224139463]Better question is: If you're not waiting, why not?



Geez people, the economy is unraveling and leveraged investing is over for at least a decade. Why would you buy know unless a gun was held to your head.</blockquote>


Renting doesn't appeal to me, I need someplace to live, and I don't view my residence as an investment.</blockquote>


I agree. A house is not something you buy low and sell high, or something you take equity out of to buy a car. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.</blockquote>


LOL that has got to be the most illogical statement I've ever read. For the very reason we are in this mess is because people bought high (at the top) and sold and/or walked away, at the lows, and now the rest of us are paying for your lousy decisions. Wow, I never thought I'd read a more misguided observation. I never said treat your home as an investment, rather I am warning you to use some common sense.</blockquote>


WTF??? How the hell can you buy high unless someone else sold high??? Seriously, you need to think before posting your nonsense.



If all you care about is buying low and selling high then you ARE treating your home as an investment. And it's this exact mentality that caused the housing bubble in the first place and now I as a taxpayer have to bail YOUR ass out.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1224130808]I'm not waiting to save over renting -- I don't mind paying a premium to own, I personally see value in it (and I currently own). But I do want to see rollbacks to 2003 or earlier prices, which to me represents a fair approximation of where prices should be if you remove the effects of the bubble. The neighborhoods we are interested in aren't there yet. Frankly, they aren't even close. Like Ipop, we'll eventually reach a drop dead date where we have to move no matter what. All bets are off if we get to that point.</blockquote>


I pretty much agree with that. 2002 or less would be even better. That said, if the financial markets calm down (ha!) and we see something we both really, really like <em>and</em> it is within our budget, the we would pull the trigger. In the meantime, we have upgraded our place a bit with some items we wanted to make it easier to sit for a bit.
 
A house needs to both affordable and a good investment. The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment. I guess that's why I am still waiting.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1224163285][quote author="skek" date=1224130808]I'm not waiting to save over renting -- I don't mind paying a premium to own, I personally see value in it (and I currently own). But I do want to see rollbacks to 2003 or earlier prices, which to me represents a fair approximation of where prices should be if you remove the effects of the bubble. The neighborhoods we are interested in aren't there yet. Frankly, they aren't even close. Like Ipop, we'll eventually reach a drop dead date where we have to move no matter what. All bets are off if we get to that point.</blockquote>


I pretty much agree with that. 2002 or less would be even better. That said, if the financial markets calm down (ha!) and we see something we both really, really like <em>and</em> it is within our budget, the we would pull the trigger. In the meantime, we have upgraded our place a bit with some items we wanted to make it easier to sit for a bit.</blockquote>


I mostly agree, but I will buy a home with the goasl to build wealth. Therefore, even if I could afford a home I would enjoy living in now, I would wait until price bottom. IR made a great post at some point showing the wealth of two families based on the homes and financing they took.
 
[quote author="20percentdown" date=1224163882]The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment.</blockquote>


Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth. I think what you said sums it up. This is the problem with america and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224195640][quote author="20percentdown" date=1224163882]The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment.</blockquote>


Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth. I think what you said sums it up. This is the problem with america and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house.</blockquote>


Uh, no. What you raise would be more accurately described as "This is the problem with [A]merica and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house - <em>and I will put myself in financial jeopardy to get it and lie about my income</em>." There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a nice a house and <em>saving</em> for it.



{Sigh.}
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224195640][quote author="20percentdown" date=1224163882]The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment.</blockquote>


Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth. I think what you said sums it up. This is the problem with america and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house.</blockquote>


20percentdown's statement was a personal statement they made....

It has nothing to do with poor people or deserving a nice house.

You are just assuming things that were not even said.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1224196186][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224195640][quote author="20percentdown" date=1224163882]The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment.</blockquote>


Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth. I think what you said sums it up. This is the problem with america and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house.</blockquote>


Uh, no. What you raise would be more accurately described as "This is the problem with [A]merica and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house - <em>and I will put myself in financial jeopardy to get it and lie about my income</em>." There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a nice a house and <em>saving</em> for it.



{Sigh.}</blockquote>


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Easy lending is what made that kind of behavior possible. Easy lending is now gone. I think that is obvious.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224208310][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1224196186][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1224195640][quote author="20percentdown" date=1224163882]The house I would like to own, I cannot afford it yet. The house I can afford now, isn't a good investment.</blockquote>


Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth. I think what you said sums it up. This is the problem with america and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house.</blockquote>


Uh, no. What you raise would be more accurately described as "This is the problem with [A]merica and why we have a credit crisis, even poor people have a sense of entitlement. I <em>deserve</em> a <em>nice</em> house - <em>and I will put myself in financial jeopardy to get it and lie about my income</em>." There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a nice a house and <em>saving</em> for it.



{Sigh.}</blockquote>


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Easy lending is what made that kind of behavior possible. Easy lending is now gone. I think that is obvious.</blockquote>


I don't get where you think 20percentdown is expecting easy lending. If I understand him/her correctly, he/she is waiting for the homes to become more affordable (this is indicative of a responsible buyer). I think not overextending yourself is a good thing. I think you are unfairly comparing 20percentdown to buyers who had the opposite attitude - wanting to buy a home with a price tag that is completely out of reach and out of touch with reality. I do understand the frustration with those buyers, but 20percentdown is not one of them.
 
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