ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
electrek.co
Yes... under $10k... not $100k.
And the only reason BYD would even survive is because it’s a direct agency of the Chinese government.
But it's an indicator of upcoming widespread adoption. Like any new tech, high prices and luxury branding is the beginning, affordability and access is the tipping point. Tesla did it, Rivian is copying it, and the OEMs are following (even GM and Ford are pivoting to lower priced EVs).
High prices is one of the barriers that morekaos harped about, with that going away, we just need to fix infrastructure. But gas stations weren't built in a day either.
CalBears96
Well-known member
So Shell is going to unload 1000 retail locations to pivot to EV charging.
www.teslarati.com
Shell to close 1,000 gas stations to focus on EV charging deployment
Gas giant Shell is looking to close as many as 1,000 gas stations in the coming years, as it pivots toward deployment of EV charging stations...
www.teslarati.com
morekaos
Well-known member
You believe that “greenwashing” tripe coming from a major oil producer? At least Aramco will tell the truth…reality emboldens the truth telling…
Saudi Aramco CEO says energy transition is failing, world should abandon ‘fantasy’ of phasing out oil
· Saudi Aramco CEO Amin Nasser said the current energy transition strategy is failing.
· The world should give up on the idea of phasing out oil and gas, Nasser said.
· The CEO called for a reset of the strategy that focuses on reducing emissions, not phasing out oil and gas.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/18/sau...rce=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail
Saudi Aramco CEO says energy transition is failing, world should abandon ‘fantasy’ of phasing out oil
· Saudi Aramco CEO Amin Nasser said the current energy transition strategy is failing.
· The world should give up on the idea of phasing out oil and gas, Nasser said.
· The CEO called for a reset of the strategy that focuses on reducing emissions, not phasing out oil and gas.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/18/sau...rce=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail
morekaos
Well-known member
stupidity and green washing claims another victim….
www.bloomberg.com
Hertz’s CEO to Step Down as Car Renter Unwinds Bet on EVs
- Company hires former Cruise COO to replace ex-Goldman CFO
- Price cuts hammered the resale value of EVs in Hertz’s fleet
Hertz Replaces CEO Scherr After Big Bet on EVs Fizzles
Hertz Global Holdings Inc. is replacing its chief executive officer in the wake of a disastrous bet on electric vehicles that the company began unwinding in recent months.
www.bloomberg.com
morekaos
Well-known member
Doomed!...The funeral pyre grows….
Li Auto Inc. Updates First Quarter Delivery Outlook
BEIJING, China, March 21, 2024 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Li Auto Inc. (“Li Auto” or the “Company”) (Nasdaq: LI; HKEX: 2015), a leader in China’s new energy vehicle market, today provided an updated delivery outlook for the first quarter of 2024. Due to lower-than-expected order intake, the Company now expects its vehicle deliveries for the first quarter of 2024 to be between 76,000 and 78,000 vehicles, revised from the previous vehicle delivery outlook of between 100,000 and 103,000 vehicles.
“First, we want to acknowledge that the operating strategy of Li MEGA was mis-paced. We planned operations of Li MEGA as if the model had already entered the 1-to-10 scaling phase, while in fact, we were still in the nascent 0-to-1 business validation period. Similar to Li ONE and our EREV technologies, Li MEGA and our BEV technologies will also need to undergo this 0-to-1 validation process. Next, we will first focus on our core user group and target cities with stronger purchasing power, recalibrating the Li MEGA strategy back to the 0-to-1 phase. After that, we will expand our reach to a broader user base and more cities.
“Second, we put excessive emphasis on sales volume and competition, distracting us from what we excel at — creating value for our users and driving operating efficiency. We will lower our delivery expectations and restore sustainable growth by refocusing on enhancing user value instead of competition, while maintaining operating efficiency,” commented Xiang Li, chairman and chief executive officer of Li Auto.
https://ir.lixiang.com/news-release...o-inc-updates-first-quarter-delivery-outlook/
Li Auto Inc. Updates First Quarter Delivery Outlook
BEIJING, China, March 21, 2024 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Li Auto Inc. (“Li Auto” or the “Company”) (Nasdaq: LI; HKEX: 2015), a leader in China’s new energy vehicle market, today provided an updated delivery outlook for the first quarter of 2024. Due to lower-than-expected order intake, the Company now expects its vehicle deliveries for the first quarter of 2024 to be between 76,000 and 78,000 vehicles, revised from the previous vehicle delivery outlook of between 100,000 and 103,000 vehicles.
“First, we want to acknowledge that the operating strategy of Li MEGA was mis-paced. We planned operations of Li MEGA as if the model had already entered the 1-to-10 scaling phase, while in fact, we were still in the nascent 0-to-1 business validation period. Similar to Li ONE and our EREV technologies, Li MEGA and our BEV technologies will also need to undergo this 0-to-1 validation process. Next, we will first focus on our core user group and target cities with stronger purchasing power, recalibrating the Li MEGA strategy back to the 0-to-1 phase. After that, we will expand our reach to a broader user base and more cities.
“Second, we put excessive emphasis on sales volume and competition, distracting us from what we excel at — creating value for our users and driving operating efficiency. We will lower our delivery expectations and restore sustainable growth by refocusing on enhancing user value instead of competition, while maintaining operating efficiency,” commented Xiang Li, chairman and chief executive officer of Li Auto.
https://ir.lixiang.com/news-release...o-inc-updates-first-quarter-delivery-outlook/
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
So funny how morekaos likes to dig for anti-EV articles.
I just have to look on the road to see more EVs in use.
Is Irvine the Tesla capital of the world?
I just have to look on the road to see more EVs in use.
Is Irvine the Tesla capital of the world?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
BYD's new EV, starting at less than $10,000, is stoking fear across the industry
Leading EV maker BYD shook the industry after unveiling the new Seagull (Dolphin Mini), with starting prices as low as...
electrek.co
Yes... under $10k... not $100k.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Can I get a Dutch Cargo bike Electric Type 2 for $3000? Yuba has one but it’s $6000.BYD's new EV, starting at less than $10,000, is stoking fear across the industry
Leading EV maker BYD shook the industry after unveiling the new Seagull (Dolphin Mini), with starting prices as low as...
Yes... under $10k... not $100k.
morekaos
Well-known member
What’s funny is you think that’s an anti-EV article but it’s actually a press release from the actual company., begging fo forgiveness for squandering shareholder money in the wrongful pursuit of
And the only reason BYD would even survive is because it’s a direct agency of the Chinese government.
sgip
Well-known member
Headline: "BYD's new EV, starting at less than $10,000......"
Article: BYD launched the Seagull EV in South America as the Dolphin Mini. In Brazil, the EV has a starting price of around $20,000 (99,800 BRL).
My guess is that this vehicle will never reach the US unless it's reconfigured to DOT safety standards which will be a high bar. Still, a $20-$25k EV that can hold at least "American sized"* people is an admirable goal.
* In my view today's sizes run "Petite", "Small", "Medium", "Large", "XL", "XXL", and "American". There is rumored to also be a "Wal-martian" subgroup, but I digress. Yee Haw!
Article: BYD launched the Seagull EV in South America as the Dolphin Mini. In Brazil, the EV has a starting price of around $20,000 (99,800 BRL).
My guess is that this vehicle will never reach the US unless it's reconfigured to DOT safety standards which will be a high bar. Still, a $20-$25k EV that can hold at least "American sized"* people is an admirable goal.
* In my view today's sizes run "Petite", "Small", "Medium", "Large", "XL", "XXL", and "American". There is rumored to also be a "Wal-martian" subgroup, but I digress. Yee Haw!
Not a rumor by any means. That segment was possibly the very first to adopt electric vehicles.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
As an American+ sized person I doubt I can fit into a $10k EV... but that's the same for ICE.
But it's an indicator of upcoming widespread adoption. Like any new tech, high prices and luxury branding is the beginning, affordability and access is the tipping point. Tesla did it, Rivian is copying it, and the OEMs are following (even GM and Ford are pivoting to lower priced EVs).
High prices is one of the barriers that morekaos harped about, with that going away, we just need to fix infrastructure. But gas stations weren't built in a day either.
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
Something under appreciated about EVs is how much nicer it is to have them in the garage. They don't leak oil, they don't emit fumes or crazy amounts of heat.
If you have a two car garage and want to use part of the garage for something else (craft space, wood working, 3D printer etc) do you want to share it with an ICE parked a few feet over or an electric?
Don't get me wrong I'm still saving up to buy an ICE 911, but as a daily, EVs are great.
If you have a two car garage and want to use part of the garage for something else (craft space, wood working, 3D printer etc) do you want to share it with an ICE parked a few feet over or an electric?
Don't get me wrong I'm still saving up to buy an ICE 911, but as a daily, EVs are great.
Liar Loan
Well-known member
You park in your garage?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Yep... garage less dirty, smelly and hot. Going EV isn't just about hugging trees.
sgip
Well-known member
sgip
Well-known member
I may be flogging a dead horse on this thread, but here goes....
So I posted about the hydrogen fuel cell powered Toyota Mirai and the astronomical dealer incentives just to push these new models off the lot. I started to look at 2021-2023 used models for comparison purposes. A 25-35k mile used 2021-2022 Mirai has an average sales price of $16-$18k. (the body style changed in the 2021 model year) With that you get a $4,000 Federal Tax Credit, however it's income based ( https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxused.shtml ) Toyota also throws in a $15k hydrogen card good for 3 years. (5k per year). These are Certified Pre-Owned so the warranty appears to be pretty strong.
For the right buyer, and someone who wants a green-ish vehicle - the price point is just about there to pull the trigger on IMHO. Yes, Hydrogen is relatively hard to find and impossible to use out of California, but that just means you need to keep an eye on your tank levels and know where you can go on what's available.
Thoughts?
So I posted about the hydrogen fuel cell powered Toyota Mirai and the astronomical dealer incentives just to push these new models off the lot. I started to look at 2021-2023 used models for comparison purposes. A 25-35k mile used 2021-2022 Mirai has an average sales price of $16-$18k. (the body style changed in the 2021 model year) With that you get a $4,000 Federal Tax Credit, however it's income based ( https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxused.shtml ) Toyota also throws in a $15k hydrogen card good for 3 years. (5k per year). These are Certified Pre-Owned so the warranty appears to be pretty strong.
For the right buyer, and someone who wants a green-ish vehicle - the price point is just about there to pull the trigger on IMHO. Yes, Hydrogen is relatively hard to find and impossible to use out of California, but that just means you need to keep an eye on your tank levels and know where you can go on what's available.
Thoughts?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Hydrogen is hard to find and fuel IN Cali... that's why they are giving Mirais away. Just look up the horror stories of H2 fueling.
sgip
Well-known member
Yes, finding and filling a Hydrogen powered car is difficult, but hardly impossible. Methinks the complaints are from people who were oversold at the dealership about the promise of a "green energy vehicle" versus the reality of owning one. One of my biggest issues with these cars is the MPGe's the manufacturers claim. Toyota says the Murai has a 400x range per tank, but real world users say the range is more like 350-370 per tank. Imagine buying an extended range Tesla and getting 80% at best of it's advertised range.
Regarding the Murai's cost/benefit analysis it boils down to an old truth: "Never look a gift horse in the mouth". It might be a solution for some, but very few I'd imagine.
The only other fuel cell manufacturer is Hyundai. Both companies are still churning out new models. Perhaps it's to meet a government rule or to qualify for a tax break of some sort. What other reason could there be for making a product the consumer and the infrastructure really isn't ready to support?
Regarding the Murai's cost/benefit analysis it boils down to an old truth: "Never look a gift horse in the mouth". It might be a solution for some, but very few I'd imagine.
The only other fuel cell manufacturer is Hyundai. Both companies are still churning out new models. Perhaps it's to meet a government rule or to qualify for a tax break of some sort. What other reason could there be for making a product the consumer and the infrastructure really isn't ready to support?
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