ICE or EV?

[irvinehomeowner]

Hah.. you're quibbling over destination fees (which most cars have).

The MSRP is $37,380... but let's call it $39,470. That's still not $55k (remember your 2022 article)... or $100k.

But I'm glad you were able to figure out how to click in twice... or did your kids show you?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

He’s not wrong - EVs will put GM/Ford/VW Group/Daimler in a capex spiral

Alright... quoted for posterity. As an EV owner, I'm surprised you are Team MK but "creative accounting" will bear this out.

It's done... horse left the barn and is not coming back. This has been said about almost every emerging technology... EVs are not going away.

 

[morekaos]

MSRP is a unicorn…total lie and never reality….
The manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) is the price that a product's manufacturer recommends it be sold for at the point of sale. Any retail product can have an MSRP, but the term is frequently used with automobiles.

 

[AW]

I didn’t ignore the link look at that screenshot. I actually tried to buy one and what do you know the reality ….$40,000.

Try going through the order process like I did. That is an actual screenshot of my order for the “cheapest” base model 3….almost $50k….below $40k is a myth.

dance baby dance

And there's the tax credit, fed and state cvrp, which gets it under $40k for the working folks = winning

 

[AW]

Hope can drive a man insane…hope someone finds a Unicorn…hope there is a fast charger at the endo of that rainbow…

Living with hope is better than living in fear

I see mk and his gang around 2 mins in, at the bowling alley, lol

 

[irvinehomeowner]

MSRP is a unicorn…total lie and never reality….
The manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) is the price that a product's manufacturer recommends it be sold for at the point of sale. Any retail product can have an MSRP, but the term is frequently used with automobiles.

You do know that Telsa uses the direct sales model so what you see online is what you get... unlike the traditional dealers who add markups and add-ons (expensive tint, paint and upholstery protection and that $1500 KARR alarm ). The bad part is Elon can change the MSRP to his whim (which has been quite a rollercoaster this last year or so).

But does this really matter? The Model 3 currently is not $55k or $100k. You're just throwing words on the screen hoping no one notices your many faux pas in this thread.

Face it, you've failed this topic. Stick with the funny things Joe says.

 

[CalBears96]

Moretroll pretends that taxes only apply to EVs, not ICE.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Even Toyota shareholders know that unicorns are here to stay:

Toyota shareholders protest EV stance with votes to oust longtime leader from the board

Toyota shareholders are sending a clear message at the Japanese automaker’s annual meeting this year – it’s time to go...

electrek.co

After Akio Toyoda, the 66-year-old grandson to the company’s founder, stepped down as CEO in January, many believed newly elected leader Koji Sato would bring the automaker into the modern era.

Toyoda has been one of the most vocal critics of going all in on EVs, insisting on sticking to a hybrid strategy despite the industry moving to an all-electric future.

Although Sato explained under his leadership the automaker would “accelerate BEV development with a new approach,” shareholders are still not thrilled with the progress.

In particular, they are pointing out Toyota’s EV stance on not setting a date to go all-electric. According to the Wall Street Journal:

Shareholders including the New York City comptrollers office, the California Public Employees’ Retirement System and several European asset managers said they have voted or plan to vote to oust several Toyota directors including Toyoda from their board seats at the meeting Wednesday.

They say their vote is a way of protesting against Toyoda’s policy of not setting a date to go all-electric like most automakers have.

EV gonna EV!

 

[morekaos]

Things are going so well they are cutting price…production….earnings growth..expansion plans…and delivery projections…it’s a tsunami of change…

Nio cuts prices for its cars — and delays business expansion plans

· Nio is cutting prices for its cars, and delaying plans to spend on business expansion and research.

· On Friday, the company reported cash and cash equivalents of 14.76 billion yuan ($2.07 billion) as of March, below what it disclosed for the end of 2021 and 2022.

· Nio said its gross margin fell to 1.5% in the first quarter, down from 14.6% a year ago and 3.9% in the fourth quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/12/nio...rce=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Wait... what happened to your business acumen?

What do companies usually do when more competition enters the field or if existing competition starts to undercut them?

Stop posting for nothing burger's sake.

 

[morekaos]

Where did you go to business school? When you can’t sell your product you cut the prices to get rid of inventory and reduce expansion plans. You also reduced income and earnings expectations…that’s exactly what they did.

 

[AW]

^now is that because the reason is EV?

because quickly googling, china tesla is doing not bad:

China: Tesla Increased Both Retail Sales And Exports In May 2023

In May, Tesla sales of Made-in-China (MIC) Model 3/Model Y in China and exports from China increased quite noticeably compared to the previous year.

insideevs.com

 

[morekaos]

zero sum game, they’re all fighting over the same few buyers…

Chinese Tesla rival shares dive 11% after it forecasts a plunge in car deliveries

· Xpeng shares were down after the company reported earnings that missed expectations and forecast a plunge in car sales.

· Xpeng forecast deliveries of its vehicles to be between 21,000 and 22,000 in the second quarter, representing a year-over-year decrease of 36.1% to 39.0%.

· Xpeng’s revenue in the first quarter plunged 50% year-on-year to 4.03 billion Chinese yuan ($571.6 million).

· Xpeng has been hurt by a tough macroeconomic situation in China as well as rising competition from Tesla, BYD and electric car startups.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/xpeng-xpev-q1-2023-earnings-report-deliveries-forecast-to-fall.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail

 

[OCtoSV]

My son thinks my Tesla is gay and has his eyes set on 1 car for college graduation: a good condition 2002 Trans Am. I gotta admit that is a pretty sweet ride.

 

[AW]

zero sum game, they’re all fighting over the same few buyers…

Chinese Tesla rival shares dive 11% after it forecasts a plunge in car deliveries

· Xpeng shares were down after the company reported earnings that missed expectations and forecast a plunge in car sales.

· Xpeng forecast deliveries of its vehicles to be between 21,000 and 22,000 in the second quarter, representing a year-over-year decrease of 36.1% to 39.0%.

· Xpeng’s revenue in the first quarter plunged 50% year-on-year to 4.03 billion Chinese yuan ($571.6 million).

· Xpeng has been hurt by a tough macroeconomic situation in China as well as rising competition from Tesla, BYD and electric car startups.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/xpeng-xpev-q1-2023-earnings-report-deliveries-forecast-to-fall.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail

Zero sum game?

EV as a percentage is increasing tho..

China: Plug-In Car Sales Increased In March 2023 - 34% Share

Plug-in electric car sales in China continue to increase, and March brought another solid result, indicating that electrification is going mainstream.

insideevs.com

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@morekaos: You clearly don't know anything about the EV market in the US, so why would you think you know anything about the China one?

And you just look for the headlines instead of actually reading the content. As I said above (and it's embarrassing that someone who did not go to business school knows more about what is happening than you do), your own linked articles says this:

Xpeng has been hurt by a tough macroeconomic situation in China as well as rising competition from Tesla, BYD and electric car startups.

It goes on:

But the Guangzhou-headquartered company is also facing intense competition in electric vehicles from other startups like Li Auto and Nio as well as established players like Tesla and Warren Buffett-backed BYD.

Tesla has been cutting prices in China to spur demand which has also weighed on Xpeng’s competitiveness.

So thanks again for proving my point.

And if you missed it, Buffet is backing BYD, a Chinese EV company.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Oh and speaking of Xpeng, their G6 Y-competitor sold 25k pre-orders in the first 3 days:

XPeng's G6 arrives as competitor to Tesla Model Y in China, nabs over 25k orders in first 72 hours

Just three days after hitting showrooms and opening pre-orders, XPeng Motors’ G6 SUV is garnering a lot of hype in...

electrek.co

Yeah... EV gonna EV even in China.

 

[morekaos]

@morekaos: You clearly don't know anything about the EV market in the US, so why would you think you know anything about the China one?

And you just look for the headlines instead of actually reading the content. As I said above (and it's embarrassing that someone who did not go to business school knows more about what is happening than you do), your own linked articles says this:



It goes on:



So thanks again for proving my point.

And if you missed it, Buffet is backing BYD, a Chinese EV company.

Perhaps you didn’t read that whole article..this is not the only Chinese company reporting losses and lower sales and deliveries. This is not supply driven but demand loss…(from the article)

Xpeng shares were down after the company reported earnings that missed expectations and forecast aplunge in car sales.

revenue in the first quarter plunged 50%

deliveries of its vehicles to be between 21,000 and 22,000 in the second quarter, representing a year-over-year decrease of 36.1% to 39.0%.

…and as much as I respect Buffet…even the Oracle makes mistakes…Like US Air and more recently….

Berkshire Hathaway CEO Warren Buffett admitted to investors in his annual letter Saturday that a mistake he made led to an $11 billion loss in 2020, even as quarterly profits continued to rise.

Buffett wrote that Berkshire had to write down the value of Precision Castparts, a manufacturer that makes parts for aerospace and defense companies, accounting for almost all of the loss.

Berkshire acquired the Portland, Oregon-based company in a $37.2 billion deal in 2016.

“I paid too much for the company,” the billionaire admitted in his latest annual letter.

“No one misled me in any way – I was simply too optimistic about PCC’s normalized profit potential,” he wrote. “Last year, my miscalculation was laid bare by adverse developments throughout the aerospace industry, PCC’s most important source of customers.”

 

[AW]

Perhaps you didn’t read that whole article..this is not the only Chinese company reporting losses and lower sales and deliveries. This is not supply driven but demand loss…(from the article)

Xpeng shares were down after the company reported earnings that missed expectations and forecast aplunge in car sales.

revenue in the first quarter plunged 50%

deliveries of its vehicles to be between 21,000 and 22,000 in the second quarter, representing a year-over-year decrease of 36.1% to 39.0%.

…and as much as I respect Buffet…even the Oracle makes mistakes…Like US Air and more recently….

Berkshire Hathaway CEO Warren Buffett admitted to investors in his annual letter Saturday that a mistake he made led to an $11 billion loss in 2020, even as quarterly profits continued to rise.

Buffett wrote that Berkshire had to write down the value of Precision Castparts, a manufacturer that makes parts for aerospace and defense companies, accounting for almost all of the loss.

Berkshire acquired the Portland, Oregon-based company in a $37.2 billion deal in 2016.

“I paid too much for the company,” the billionaire admitted in his latest annual letter.

“No one misled me in any way – I was simply too optimistic about PCC’s normalized profit potential,” he wrote. “Last year, my miscalculation was laid bare by adverse developments throughout the aerospace industry, PCC’s most important source of customers.”

Perhaps your posts are pointless?

So you’ve indicated 2 companies in China with demand problems. Ok, sooo, what’s the point?
Is it because of EV like you normally do with your put down posts? But China Tesla is doing well.
You say it’s a zero sum game, but then EV is increasing as % of sales. So the total EV sum is increasing. Missing big picture perhaps?

So Buffett doesn’t bat 1.000, who does? You? Ha.
Check the scoreboard, I’d side with Buffet

 

[morekaos]

because, seeing past all the glom on fawning is my job as well as buffets, it’s both our jobs to be right more than wrong when investing money. That doesn’t mean you’re always right. Never claimed to be but for 35 years, managing hundreds of millions I’ve consistently delivered. Watching these trends reminds me very much of solar, bitcoin, housing in the early 2000s. It gets treated like a cult where anyone who opposes it is a heretic. I have found that being the heretic can be very profitable.