How to Reduce Selling Price of New Homes.

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<em> If Don Bren wants to fill Irvine with </em><em>Hermes, Louis Vuitton and Channel bag carrying and status chasing Asians, he's welcome to. But for me, the comparison of the $1.7M homes in JB and Laguna said it all.





</em>Eval: Maybe I missed an earlier thread on the subject or am not understanding the reference, but why are you specifically singling out Asians as "Hermes, Louis Vuitton and Channel bag carrying and status chasing"? I don't want to jump to conclusions if there's nothing there.
 
IG - Yes, you missed the earlier thread. BK makes reference to Hermes, et al. above. He also tied it in to what Asian buyers like, and their status chasing, in one of his 6/11/07 posts found <a href="http://forums.irvinehousingblog.com/discussion/368/">here</a>. If that doesn't clarify, please let me know.
 
The analogy of expensive handbags is way that I am trying to describe the importance of branding. I am not suggesting that TIC is trying to sell homes to Asians who carry brand name handbags.



Granny studio above the garage is an architectural jargon to describe an independent studio space above the garage. It could be a dog house for the husband to sleep for the night who just had an argument with his wife. It could be for the boomerang kid who finished college but could not find a job. It could be like the only space that the husband could decorate in any way he wishes. It could be the only place he is allowed to gather with his Super Bowl party friends and where cigar smoking is permitted. It could be the SAT study hall for the Asian infant. It could be a ping pong and billiard room. It could be the decked out home theater. It could be the electronic gadget room for the kids from the entire neighborhood.



Land is at a premium where a full 425 sf ground level granny master bedroom is totally out of the question. Shady Canyon has many of those. A modest grand parent could be suggested.



Judging from the slowing down of construction activities I am only speculating TIC’s strategy. It makes sense to me to use the time to properly research and develop a brand new direction in merchant housing.



Universal access and handicap compliance are necessary as the aging baby boomers are living much longer. I would support that in my marketing research. I also am aware of in solving the necessary code required clearances such 24” of free space and 44” back on the strike side of the door and minimum door width and hall, wheel chair maneuvering dimension will increase the circulation by 10% and not any functionality to room sizes. To a non handicap buyer the excessive circulation would appear to be a huge wasted space. Elevator are great and they cost $60,000 and the size of the space required is 8x7 on 2 level and the mechanical hydraulic mechanical room is at least 4x5 on one level. Although the idea is great I just do not think the consumer would pay $52,000 ($400/sf) just for the floor area to accommodate the elevator and another $60,000 for the actual apparatus.



I am using the term trophy locations. It does not hint the homes there should be a high degree of pedigree. They are locations with scenic and picturesque quality rather than flat land grid. Trophy properties are pedigree homes at unique location. I agree with you that coastal location with cooler climate is still the most sought after.



Lastly, the green and solar approach are for those who treasures our environment and not intended to make a difference in making the mortgage payment. I did not meant that in my post. The last part of my sentence does make sense by renting out the studio one can help with the mortgage payment.
 
bk,



I appreciate your analyst and viewpoint. Do you or anyone else here remember TIC’s strategy during the last period of RE weakness from 1990-1993(?). I think (not sure) the community of Westpark was being built during this period and I wonder what TIC and builders were doing at the time.
 
<em>>>The analogy of expensive handbags is way that I am trying to describe the importance of branding. I am not suggesting that TIC is trying to sell homes to Asians who carry brand name handbags.





</em>Ok. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I took some of your analyses from the past and conflated them into what you said yesterday.





So, speaking of elevators, have you seen the Shea development San Lorenzo at Vista Del Verde? I know they are marketing to the "active" senior citizen (it's golf course adjacent), but those places are huge for attached homes, and you can even order up an elevator on the Plan 4, or dumb waiter, on the Plan 3.
 
<p>What's the appeal of Shady Canyon? I thought it would be so fabulous since even John McMonigle lives up there.... however I wasn't very impressed when driving through one weekend. Just large homes on large sites. And, of course, large prices!</p>

<p>With those prices, why wouldn't you want to live at Newport Coast or The Strand or Marblehead? </p>
 
<p>Eva:</p>

<p>My feelings are exactly the same - I'd much rather be in Crystal Cove - even if there was no direct coastal view, you'd at least be close to the coast. I almost felt like I was in Arizona while driving through Shady Canyon. But, apparently there is some sort of draw. </p>
 
Detached,



The community of Westpark indeed was developed at the peak of the last recession. California Pacific Homes and Standard Pacific Homes were the only 2 active builders during that time. Both continued to have close relationship with TIC. Cal Pac developed some attached products like Brios and Adventura. It also developed the infant version of the detached cluster condos. They were Travilla and Brindisi. It also experimented with the larger detached homes like Cortinna. The overall concept was a good strategy offering low square footage and high density solution. The homes targeted the entry level buyers and they did extremely well. The majority of the home buyers were Asians.



Eva,



Age targeted projects are extremely difficult to pencil out in area of high land cost. Due to the single story requirement the footprint took up most of the land. The density of the single story homes is around 5 units per acre. Just the raw land alone is valued at $900,000 per lot. The alternative solution is to create stacked flats with an exterior elevator and catwalks. The solution is a glorified apartment. Only then the ground level units have direct access from the garage. The attached town homes by Shea were built in many places and are extremely popular in the Sacramento and the outskirt of the Bay area where land prices is not at a premium. So far not a single age restricted project got built in Irvine. Stan Pac did a hybrid project that had some plans targeted the seniors but the prices were at $900,000 in Northpark Square. Unless the senior is very wealthy otherwise the Palm Desert and Sun cities in Arizona are still the best buy. The elevator proposed in the Shea project is very slow. I did a similar Shea project in Northern Ca. It took 2 minutes for the elevator to arrive at the lower level and another 2 to get up to the second floor. The total time elapsed was 5 minutes because the accordion style gate almost snapped my fingers off.



Laing,



Shady Canyon was a community sensitively designed to nestle into the existing terrains. The contour of the land was not disturbed. The landscape concept utilized all California native vegetations. The water usage is minimal and was awarded to honor for the best design community of the Pacific Rim. The merit was its sustainable design and preservation of all natural habitat and indigenous animal species. The architectural design guideline was researched to resemble the secrets that help to produce classic communities of the by gone era like Montecito, Rolling Hills, and Rancho Santa Fe. The community was designed to have the flavor that are similar to communities anchored in understated tradition and the taste level that reflect in old money. John McMonigle was a farm boy who grew up in the field of Oklahoma. He knew the concept of old money even though he grew up poor. He is successful because he listens to his clients and treated his peers with the utmost respect. He has keen observation for good aesthetic in homes and knew how to package himself as well as the homes he represents. People like him because he is sincere. With his wealth he could have been very “cocky” but his demeanor is very pleasant. His wife Robin contributed a lot to charity work as well as the OC homeless organizations. They both dress well and are regular South Coast Plaza boutiques. Many competitor RE agents talk bad about him envious of his success. I hope to restore his good reputation because he is genuinely a sincere guy.



Shady Canyon is famous not because of John McMonigle, Mark M, Shaun Green, Garret Anderson, and Tiger Wood. It is the understated design and the level of sophisticated pedigree approach to landscape and architectural solutions. This was a community that swept awards in regional, national, and Pacific Rim competitions.



Some see the beauty in the land while others see beauty next to water. Crystal Cove is no doubt stunning. The designer who wrote the guideline for Shady Canyon also land planned Crystal Cove years ago. The creations were inspired by the classic communities of the early California.


 
<p>BK,</p>

<p>Thanks for your answers! I'm glad to hear that John McMonigle is a pleasant and sincere person - I haven't heard anything negative about him. But, then again, I do not know many Realtors. His story is certainly very inspiring. </p>
 
<p>bkshopr,</p>

<p>What are your thoughts on the basement style at The Tides in Crystal Cove? How do the architects deal with moisture, odor (from the gym), trap like bunker style, smell from drunken men, mold, car pollution (plan 2), etc. problems?</p>

<p>The styles (1 & 2) are impressive, romantic, and beautiful. I think this is the first model houses that the builder takes the concept of the courtyard to a higher notch, ok, a lot of notches. Customers will need time to absorb this new concept and to acquire the new taste of flamboyance lifestyle. </p>
 
Standard Pac’s Tide project in Crystal Cove was pressured to compete with Laing Luxury’s Seacrest. Following laing’s formula 3 different architects were chosen to design each home so the variety is pronounced. Mansfield designed the provencel plan. JZMK designed the Andalucia and Bassenian Lagoni designed the plan with sunken courtyard.



This concept is not new and numerous custom homes have been designed that way to bring light to make the basement livable. Fari designed one of the first home in Shady Canyon with a sunken courtyard. 6 years have passed and no sign of moisture penetration unlike many of the East Coast basement experienced. Richard Krantz also designed houses with similar condition and his houses are doing well.



The negative issue we experienced in the East Coast and Midwest is the moisture from constant rain and melting snow that made its way into the basement exterior wall that created condensation that further grew into mold and mildew. The builders here in CA are very liability conscious. Adequate moisture barriers lined the exterior as well as the interior to prevent any moisture penetration if any.



Our weather is just to dry to have water seeping to the basement wall. I would be more concerned with sprinkler irrigation and avoiding over watering. Drought tolerant landscaping is preferred along the perimeter of the basement to lessen water usage. My major concern is the 7 days of rain that we get and water does collect at the bottom of the basement courtyard. Area drains and overflow is crucial. It is death for the basement if they were clogged.
 
My husband noted the same thing about Plan 2 of the Stan Pac homes. The driveway of the model seemed to really encourage water to flow into the courtyard/garage, although there were drains spaced along the way. Given the concerns, I can only hope that the subs who work on the Stan Pac projects at the Tides are better trained than the subs on the non-premium StanPac projects.
 
<p>bkshopr,</p>

<p>" Ladera did not have the strict aesthetic reviewing process like TIC"," therefore the end result is not the best". I understand and accept the first part of your statement at its face value. Your expertise shines right through, and deserves respect. However I am puzzled by the second part of your statement. I thought Ladera Ranch homes/communities have lots of architectural characters, curb appeals, and sensible functionalities. As a layperson, maybe I was fooled by a few superficial visits. Hopefully you could shed some light on where should I be looking, in order to see Ladera's flaws.</p>

<p>I would deeply appreciate your comment. FYI, I sold my home in MV back in '04, rented for 3 years, and currently living oversea for a project which should allow me to move back to the States in about 2 years. I am considering to buy in either Irvine, or Ladera Ranch then ('09 or '10), but I am leaning more towards Ladera for now. Mistake?</p>
 
Laguna Crossing IMO will be priced less than Orchard due to the more compact and efficient type of products available. The Laguna land plan featured on the website compared to Orchard tailored a much condensed recreation infrastructure. The landscape is much straight forward and simpler. The community amenity investment is less in Laguna Crossing and should be reflected accordingly in the land residual. The lot sizes and parcel shapes from my comparison I conclude that Laguna Crossing offer entry level footages while Orchard is strictly targeting the move up buyers who have outgrown their Northpark or tired of Tustin Ranch homes. The term I have heard passing down from the grapevine for Orchard other known as “The Bel Air of Irvine”. TIC like always its resort theme ammenities and landscape concept have consistantly set high mark. The community itself is incredible.



Orchard homes were designed several years ago before the bubble burst. The architectural firms that generated the various projects are not very clever with design and lack the disciplines in creating efficient plans that optimize function instead the solutions was compounded by too much circulations and wasteful hallways. During the last frenzy any home with 4 walls and a roof would sell. These firms were stamping out the products on the assembly line. These homes IMO will be the last remaining inventory of the “pre-bubble” thinking. These firms are not involved with the new progressive products in Laguna Crossing. The last time I heard they are designing projects in India, China and Dubai. The foreigners are not as savvy and more acceptance of mediocre design.
 
BK,





I have read here in the forums that most builders had backed out of OH and that Laing and Laing Luxury are one of the few (if not the only?) remaining builders. Does the "pre-bubble" housing design still valid, wouldn't the new builders put their latest designs into a higher-end project?





For me, both Laguna Crossing and OH look very appealing. OH is targeting the a more luxurious market with open spaces and views, but Laguna crossing seems just as nice. With only 775 units or so in LC it appears to be just as open and with good views and better weather. PA18S layout of 175 or so homes look great, not too crowded, many of the outlying homes view right in the hills or valleys. I guess the big question becomes how much? Let just hope TIC will soften their price a bit for 2008.
 
Laing Luxury unfortunately hired Robert Hidey Architects to design OH. This firm lost its top designer several years ago. It used to win a couple dozens of awards each year. For the last 3 years it won just one minor award. The firm is in survival mode designing homes in India, China, and Utah where consumers have a much lower standard in aesthetic. I have seen this firm's products in Chino and Corona. They are bad. Keep an eye out for Brookfield's Laguna Crossing.
 
BK,





Thanks for the wealth of information! This forum has the most amazing members with knowledge of irvine and housing. I love it! <p>


Would you happen to know what size sq footage of homes Brookfield is planning?
 
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