Holy Rip Off on QH home

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[quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).
 
[quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291301][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).</blockquote>
Well of course they were being nice, they need to find a sucker...errr buyer who is willing to overpay by about $400k for this home. We need folks to have provided them the biatch slap of reality that is needed. It's ok, the market will do that for them with this home just sitting and collecting dust on the market. Good luck trying to get this property to appraise.
 
<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/105-Bottlebrush-92603/home/5901920">These sellers are delusional</a>



Here is their description- I can't believe they are actually going to raise their price to $1.75 million after the room add-on.



The best lot in quiet cul-de-sac,highly upgraded thru-out. Entry door w/custom marble medallion, marble flooring thru-out.Spacious master suite w/large private balcony over look to spectacular view. Pre-wire stereo & alarm system. Formal dining room, butler pantry. Gourmet kitchen, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, center island. Professional landscaped, stone work, 3 water fountains, built-in barbecue, huge back yard w/panoramic view, walk to elementary school.Price will be $1,750,000 with 400sqft room additional (option) Additional room will be complete in 45 days after close escrow. Seller consider lease option see MLS# P691640
 
[quote author="JoonB" date=1245292596]<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/105-Bottlebrush-92603/home/5901920">These sellers are delusional</a>



Here is their description- I can't believe they are actually going to raise their price to $1.75 million after the room add-on.



The best lot in quiet cul-de-sac,highly upgraded thru-out. Entry door w/custom marble medallion, marble flooring thru-out.Spacious master suite w/large private balcony over look to spectacular view. Pre-wire stereo & alarm system. Formal dining room, butler pantry. Gourmet kitchen, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, center island. Professional landscaped, stone work, 3 water fountains, built-in barbecue, huge back yard w/panoramic view, walk to elementary school.Price will be $1,750,000 with 400sqft room additional (option) Additional room will be complete in 45 days after close escrow. Seller consider lease option see MLS# P691640</blockquote>


Note: JoonB is linking a different address above
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291463][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291301][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).</blockquote>
Well of course they were being nice, they need to find a sucker...errr buyer who is willing to overpay by about $400k for this home. We need folks to have provided them the biatch slap of reality that is needed. It's ok, the market will do that for them with this home just sitting and collecting dust on the market. Good luck trying to get this property to appraise.</blockquote>


I think if one was intending to make an offer, then a discussion of price would be ethical.

However if you have no intention of buying - then discussing the price is just being a rude boorish guest in someone's home.
 
[quote author="Anonymous" date=1245293442][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291463][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291301][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).</blockquote>
Well of course they were being nice, they need to find a sucker...errr buyer who is willing to overpay by about $400k for this home. We need folks to have provided them the biatch slap of reality that is needed. It's ok, the market will do that for them with this home just sitting and collecting dust on the market. Good luck trying to get this property to appraise.</blockquote>


I think if one was intending to make an offer, then a discussion of price would be ethical.

However if you have no intention of buying - then discussing the price is just being a rude boorish guest in someone's home.</blockquote>


Visitors to OPEN HOUSES are not guests they are PROSPECTS (both for the seller and the agent). A discussion of price is ALWAYS APPROPRIATE when someone is trying to SELL SOMETHING!



Jiminy Christmas, who are you trying to kid?



If I was a seller (and I was in the not too distant past) I would want to know what every single person who even glanced at my house thought it was worth.
 
[quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245296780][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245293442][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291463][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291301][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).</blockquote>
Well of course they were being nice, they need to find a sucker...errr buyer who is willing to overpay by about $400k for this home. We need folks to have provided them the biatch slap of reality that is needed. It's ok, the market will do that for them with this home just sitting and collecting dust on the market. Good luck trying to get this property to appraise.</blockquote>


I think if one was intending to make an offer, then a discussion of price would be ethical.

However if you have no intention of buying - then discussing the price is just being a rude boorish guest in someone's home.</blockquote>


Visitors to OPEN HOUSES are not guests they are PROSPECTS (both for the seller and the agent). A discussion of price is ALWAYS APPROPRIATE when someone is trying to SELL SOMETHING!



Jiminy Christmas, who are you trying to kid?



If I was a seller (and I was in the not too distant past) I would want to know what every single person who even glanced at my house thought it was worth.</blockquote>
Exactly, if I am a serious seller I want to get feedback from all possible buyers. Information like that is valuable. If you throw up your home for sale with a WTF price then you should be ready for the greif that will come with that. The real estate market isn't for overly sensitive folks and it could use more brutally honest folks in the industry.
 
[quote author="JoonB" date=1245292596]<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/105-Bottlebrush-92603/home/5901920">These sellers are delusional</a>



Here is their description- I can't believe they are actually going to raise their price to $1.75 million after the room add-on.



The best lot in quiet cul-de-sac,highly upgraded thru-out. Entry door w/custom marble medallion, marble flooring thru-out.Spacious master suite w/large private balcony over look to spectacular view. Pre-wire stereo & alarm system. Formal dining room, butler pantry. Gourmet kitchen, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, center island. Professional landscaped, stone work, 3 water fountains, built-in barbecue, huge back yard w/panoramic view, walk to elementary school.Price will be $1,750,000 with 400sqft room additional (option) Additional room will be complete in 45 days after close escrow. Seller consider lease option see MLS# P691640</blockquote>


I can't believe that they are trying to lease this home when it is scheduled for the foreclosure auction on 7/10. It has already been postponed twice, so the bank will start to get anxious and want to get rid of it. There should be some sort of rule that won't allow for Realtors to list a property for lease when it is in default. Don't be surprised if an investor picks it up at the auction, puts it on the market for $1mil, and pockets some decent cash.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245301032][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245296780][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245293442][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291463][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291301][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1245291191][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245291071]136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.</blockquote>
Did you have a chance telling the listing agent the price was a bit off? haha</blockquote>


The ladies in the house were really, really nice (could be agent + owner), didn't have the heart to tell them that. It is a really nice house though, with tasteful & classy decorating (ie. lots of thoughtful little things like in a fine hotel rather than a pretentious this is my palace kind of thing).</blockquote>
Well of course they were being nice, they need to find a sucker...errr buyer who is willing to overpay by about $400k for this home. We need folks to have provided them the biatch slap of reality that is needed. It's ok, the market will do that for them with this home just sitting and collecting dust on the market. Good luck trying to get this property to appraise.</blockquote>


I think if one was intending to make an offer, then a discussion of price would be ethical.

However if you have no intention of buying - then discussing the price is just being a rude boorish guest in someone's home.</blockquote>


Visitors to OPEN HOUSES are not guests they are PROSPECTS (both for the seller and the agent). A discussion of price is ALWAYS APPROPRIATE when someone is trying to SELL SOMETHING!



Jiminy Christmas, who are you trying to kid?



If I was a seller (and I was in the not too distant past) I would want to know what every single person who even glanced at my house thought it was worth.</blockquote>
Exactly, if I am a serious seller I want to get feedback from all possible buyers. Information like that is valuable. If you throw up your home for sale with a WTF price then you should be ready for the greif that will come with that. The real estate market isn't for overly sensitive folks and it could use more brutally honest folks in the industry.</blockquote>


There's no point, I'm sure there are buyers who think it's worth a lot more and would be willing to pay a lot more than me in order to buy right now, assuming of course I had that kind of money which I don't. I only stopped by because I was passing by the sign, and it seemed like more fun than going home to do dishes.



I don't know what any given homes intrinsic value is. I don't think even Shiller or Roubini or Whitney or Irvine Renter really know either.

There are still too many factors in play (ex. what will the unemployment rate in Irvine be? When will Treasuries finally become unattractive and push interest rates up? Will the Fed print even more money and cause runaway inflation? Or not? Will the state or federal govts change the game with yet more regulations? ). The only thing I know is that housing markets tend to turn slowly, so it's pretty hard to miss. Thus, I have to wait and wait and wait and see what happens. And if somehow I miss and can never buy and rent forever, I'm ok with that.
 
I thought your point was something about ethics or boors or something or other. If you are saying that engaging realtors and owners in realistic discussion of pricing will not influence their decisions, I believe you are mistaken.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1245301785][quote author="JoonB" date=1245292596]<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/105-Bottlebrush-92603/home/5901920">These sellers are delusional</a>



Here is their description- I can't believe they are actually going to raise their price to $1.75 million after the room add-on.



The best lot in quiet cul-de-sac,highly upgraded thru-out. Entry door w/custom marble medallion, marble flooring thru-out.Spacious master suite w/large private balcony over look to spectacular view. Pre-wire stereo & alarm system. Formal dining room, butler pantry. Gourmet kitchen, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, center island. Professional landscaped, stone work, 3 water fountains, built-in barbecue, huge back yard w/panoramic view, walk to elementary school.Price will be $1,750,000 with 400sqft room additional (option) Additional room will be complete in 45 days after close escrow. Seller consider lease option see MLS# P691640</blockquote>


I can't believe that they are trying to lease this home when it is scheduled for the foreclosure auction on 7/10. It has already been postponed twice, so the bank will start to get anxious and want to get rid of it. There should be some sort of rule that won't allow for Realtors to list a property for lease when it is in default. Don't be surprised if an investor picks it up at the auction, puts it on the market for $1mil, and pockets some decent cash.</blockquote>
What do they owe on it?



The odd-numbered Chantilly models are great locations and I think this one is closer to the cul-de-sac.



But $1.75m for basic white tile in the Master? This is worse than the Tapestry $1.4m pricing.
 
[quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245302929]I thought your point was something about ethics or boors or something or other. If you are saying that engaging realtors and owners in realistic discussion of pricing will not influence their decisions, I believe you are mistaken.</blockquote>


If you were selling luxury cars, and some self-confident dude making $6/hr came by and told you your luxury car was only worth $3000 to him, not $40,000 that wouldn't be exactly helpful would it? Just annoying.
 
[quote author="Anonymous" date=1245303371][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245302929]I thought your point was something about ethics or boors or something or other. If you are saying that engaging realtors and owners in realistic discussion of pricing will not influence their decisions, I believe you are mistaken.</blockquote>


If you were selling luxury cars, and some self-confident dude making $6/hr came by and told you your luxury car was only worth $3000 to him, not $40,000 that wouldn't be exactly helpful would it? Just annoying.</blockquote>


Strawman. Cars don't lend themselves to fundamentals based valuation like homes.



We are talking about engaging realtors and owners in a discussion of pricing models. I believe that most realtors, lacking training in economics and/or finance, lack the background to evaluate real estate pricing beyond the comparables method. I imagine the average seller is worse. As the very least some understanding of the various potential determinants of price (NOI, rent equivalent, income to price, financing terms, etc) may lead to a faster pace of normalization for pricing.



Put it this way. If every person selling a home (agent or owner) knew the information contained on the this board, where do you think prices would be? Do you think that by not-knowing is the ultimate destination for prices altered?



I think if every seller today realized that his/her property would be worth 10-30% less by next year, based on fundamental pricing metrics, they would be far more likely to reduce their price now.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1245303087]What do they owe on it?



The odd-numbered Chantilly models are great locations and I think this one is closer to the cul-de-sac.



But $1.75m for basic white tile in the Master? This is worse than the Tapestry $1.4m pricing.</blockquote>


The first is $737k, but the NTS amount is $848k. Neg am much? Plus there is a $160k second.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1245308928]The first is $737k, but the NTS amount is $848k. Neg am much? Plus there is a $160k second.</blockquote>
See... this is just greedy.



So their total debt is $1m and some change... and they are listing at $1.65m? Public records says they bought it for $983,500 in '04... they should just list it for $1.3m and be glad if they get their down back (not to mention whatever they did with the $160k).
 
And this Vicara plan has been bouncing on and off the market for about $1.6m... who would buy that Bottlebrush place over this one?



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/39-Fresco-92603/home/5929315">http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/39-Fresco-92603/home/5929315</a>



Gah. Did someone reinflate the bubble when I wasn't looking?
 
I totally agree IHO. I saw 39 Fresco and the view is outstanding. The only problem with the Fresco house is that it really isn't a true 4 bedroom. If you make it 4 bedrooms, the layout is a little odd. I went there when the realtors just put it on the market-constantly telling me it's not a short sale- but that the guy bought it for over $2 million. THen she just follows my every move telling me what everything costs. It was beautiful, but they made a very big deal about the $50K posts in the kitchen ceiling, the $$$ grill outside, etc. My husband was in the car with the kids (we take turns seeing the house so the kids don't have to get out of the car) and the husband realtor comes out and is asking very probing questions to my husband- what does he do, do I work, etc. Very obvious. Then my husband sees Eric Fenchel entering this house (i guess checking out the competion as he had at the time 25 Fresco which is the same model and sold for $1.42 million). The realtor literally cut the questions and just ran over to Eric-it was so funny.
 
[quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245306401][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245303371][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245302929]I thought your point was something about ethics or boors or something or other. If you are saying that engaging realtors and owners in realistic discussion of pricing will not influence their decisions, I believe you are mistaken.</blockquote>


If you were selling luxury cars, and some self-confident dude making $6/hr came by and told you your luxury car was only worth $3000 to him, not $40,000 that wouldn't be exactly helpful would it? Just annoying.</blockquote>


Strawman. Cars don't lend themselves to fundamentals based valuation like homes.



We are talking about engaging realtors and owners in a discussion of pricing models. I believe that most realtors, lacking training in economics and/or finance, lack the background to evaluate real estate pricing beyond the comparables method. I imagine the average seller is worse. As the very least some understanding of the various potential determinants of price (NOI, rent equivalent, income to price, financing terms, etc) may lead to a faster pace of normalization for pricing.



Put it this way. If every person selling a home (agent or owner) knew the information contained on the this board, where do you think prices would be? Do you think that by not-knowing is the ultimate destination for prices altered?



I think if every seller today realized that his/her property would be worth 10-30% less by next year, based on fundamental pricing metrics, they would be far more likely to reduce their price now.</blockquote>


Actually I'd argue that cars are more likely to be easy for fundamentals based valuation than homes are. The reason being that if car sales are slow - you can just ship it to another state, or even another country. It's a truer free market. Whereas, if you have a gorgeous mansion but it's in Detroit ... can't ship it.
 
[quote author="Anonymous" date=1245362568][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245306401][quote author="Anonymous" date=1245303371][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1245302929]I thought your point was something about ethics or boors or something or other. If you are saying that engaging realtors and owners in realistic discussion of pricing will not influence their decisions, I believe you are mistaken.</blockquote>


If you were selling luxury cars, and some self-confident dude making $6/hr came by and told you your luxury car was only worth $3000 to him, not $40,000 that wouldn't be exactly helpful would it? Just annoying.</blockquote>


Strawman. Cars don't lend themselves to fundamentals based valuation like homes.



We are talking about engaging realtors and owners in a discussion of pricing models. I believe that most realtors, lacking training in economics and/or finance, lack the background to evaluate real estate pricing beyond the comparables method. I imagine the average seller is worse. As the very least some understanding of the various potential determinants of price (NOI, rent equivalent, income to price, financing terms, etc) may lead to a faster pace of normalization for pricing.



Put it this way. If every person selling a home (agent or owner) knew the information contained on the this board, where do you think prices would be? Do you think that by not-knowing is the ultimate destination for prices altered?



I think if every seller today realized that his/her property would be worth 10-30% less by next year, based on fundamental pricing metrics, they would be far more likely to reduce their price now.</blockquote>


Actually I'd argue that cars are more likely to be easy for fundamentals based valuation than homes are. The reason being that if car sales are slow - you can just ship it to another state, or even another country. It's a truer free market. Whereas, if you have a gorgeous mansion but it's in Detroit ... can't ship it.</blockquote>


Homes can be rented out readily, offering a discounted cash flow based measurement of valuation. I don't many individuals who have a buy-to-let strategy with autos. In terms of mobility with cars, you are talking about liquidity, the demoninator in a standard DCF model. However, rental cash flow, the numerator is still non-existent for cars.



Additionally, for cars, there are frictions that limit the flow of vehicles based on demand thereby decreasing liquidity. There are varying emissions laws that necessitate alterations, transportation costs, import/export if moving overseas, and the cost of carry on any vehicle.



I really would like to hear what fundamentals you apply to auto valuations...
 
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