Zippohunter
Member
Lol. I am sure the 230 people that bought at HC are not idiots with terrible taste.
Hidden Canyon in Irvine
- Thread starter lcms2002
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Did you miss the fact that despite a limited supply, resale homes at that price point still sold in Irvine at almost the same pace? This doesn't mean buyers always chose Hidden Canyon over resale, it means that buyers bought both. Is that not common "sensical"?
See above. You have yet to prove that "buyers voted with their $$". If they had, the sales pace for surrounding resales would have been much lower.
I think you just proved my point. Resale homes that are served by Uni still sell.
Maybe it's nothing that Toll did.
Have you considered that these (including Laguna Altura) are the only new homes this close to the 405/Spectrum and serviced by Uni? Remember the uproar when they wanted to rezone these homes to the GP schools?
I still don't think the floorplans or designs are what drove sales here. Half the homes in Laguna Altura are the standard TIC cramped/motorcourt/box-on-box/great room floorplans that they have in Stonegate/CV except they are trading much higher.
If they built homes in that "business park" area between LA and QH and they were the worst floorplans ever, they would still sell.
But this is what you said:
How do you know they had their pick froom QH but it's a fact they didn't? What if those buyers couldn't find a QH home they liked or didn't even look at QH?
And even though 250 buyers chose HC... that doesn't exclude that almost 200 chose surrounding resales.
Maybe it's just the way I read it, but you make it sound like people preferred HC over other areas much more ("voted with their feet / $$") but all I was trying to say was that isn't the case.
If there were only 50-100 sales in the surrounding areas, you have a point... but almost 200? That's too close to call "fact" that people voted with their $$.
Did I say that? But by the same token, just because HC exists doesn't mean that no one will buy resales.
If HC didn't exist, would the 200 sales have been 450? No... because as I said before, resale market is limited by whatever is listed... and that's why that 200 number is compelling because resales have limitations that new sales do not which makes your position not as strong (as my original response to your post stated).
This is the second time you have said this and I don't think this applies.
You still have not proven that statement about "quail hill homes sitting on MLS for ages". And once I pointed out the Redfin number, you started changing your point a bit. Or maybe that was your point all along and you were using hyperbole which is fine but saying I don't have common sense doesn't prove anything.
No buyer said "remove the driveway" or "make the sideyard only 5 feet wide". There is a history of posts on TI and IHB that talks about how builders steer buyers towards designs that maximize their profit and are not exactly what the buyers want.
So yes, it's more "what the buyer will take"... or settle for.
Again, subjective. Many (including me) don't like those square modern design homes they put up at Beacon Park and Parasol Park, but they ones in Beacon sold fast. Does that mean buyers voted with their $$ and all new home projects should be modern only?
Just because it sells, doesn't mean it's what the people wanted/voted for.
So far Vistas are doing really well. Sold many lots they just released. The Savona (equivalent to Santa Monica at HC) just got a deposit for a lot priced at $3.4 Million.
An interesting fact:
Recently spoke to a window covering company.
Out of all the homes he measured, only TB homes have consistent window dims. What that means is: when builders put in windows, there usually "allow" a tolerance on the width/height. So, the top and bottom of the same window, may be 0.25" or 0.5" different. For TB, such tolerance is not allowed.
Of course, this fact is not specifically for HC, but for general TB standards and/or quality control.
Recently spoke to a window covering company.
Out of all the homes he measured, only TB homes have consistent window dims. What that means is: when builders put in windows, there usually "allow" a tolerance on the width/height. So, the top and bottom of the same window, may be 0.25" or 0.5" different. For TB, such tolerance is not allowed.
Of course, this fact is not specifically for HC, but for general TB standards and/or quality control.
aquabliss
Well-known member
I wonder who picked the name of this street:https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/121-Amber-Sky-92603/home/113852841
Googled it and sure enough, there's an adult film star with the same name. Coulda guessed that one with my eyes closed.
Googled it and sure enough, there's an adult film star with the same name. Coulda guessed that one with my eyes closed.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
fortune11 said:
Did you miss the fact that despite a limited supply, resale homes at that price point still sold in Irvine at almost the same pace? This doesn't mean buyers always chose Hidden Canyon over resale, it means that buyers bought both. Is that not common "sensical"?
See above. You have yet to prove that "buyers voted with their $$". If they had, the sales pace for surrounding resales would have been much lower.
I think you just proved my point. Resale homes that are served by Uni still sell.
Maybe it's nothing that Toll did.
Have you considered that these (including Laguna Altura) are the only new homes this close to the 405/Spectrum and serviced by Uni? Remember the uproar when they wanted to rezone these homes to the GP schools?
I still don't think the floorplans or designs are what drove sales here. Half the homes in Laguna Altura are the standard TIC cramped/motorcourt/box-on-box/great room floorplans that they have in Stonegate/CV except they are trading much higher.
If they built homes in that "business park" area between LA and QH and they were the worst floorplans ever, they would still sell.
I wanted to leave it at that , but since you keep beating up on the same issue , here we go again ...
point 1 -- we have already established buyers in HC want to live in Irvine for whatever reasons (school etc you name it) . fact is for the same price you can easily buy home in Newport coast etc. but they are not doing that . ok ?
point 2 -- so now we have 250 buyers wanting to buy in Irvine in the 2.25 - 4 mm price range buying in HC over the past two years , right ?
point 3 -- I take at face value your 202 home resales at 2.25+ mm range in irvine over last 2 years - these are non HC sales .
ok so far so good.
point 3 -- now imagine a world where if for some reason whatsoever (environmental concerns or whatever) the HC community did not get built . Now you have 250 buyers in the 2.25-4mm range looking for HC like homes but cannot find them because HC is not there.
Would at least some fraction of that 250 number have ended up buying existing resales and increasing this 202 existing re-sales number to perhaps 250 or maybe 300 ? Wouldn't the quail hill / TR sellers have loved that ? Remember these buyers ONLY want to buy in Irvine , as we have already established.
How is then HC not taking away sales from your other beloved neighborhoods.
Or do you think these 250 buyers would have vanished into thin air " poof. " , just to provide justification for your romantic theory that nothing can affect resales of these beautiful vicara (or whatever the plan is) homes ?
Common sense is less common than we think ...
I have no sympathy for Toll / TNHC or any other builder . they are all greedy corporations running to maximize the bonuses of the C-suite . But they are only responding to what the buyer wants / will take. Highly likely that when QH was built those arches were a popular design feature. But like boy bands of the late 90s, they have not aged well (well, except maybe Justin Timberlake).
point 1 -- we have already established buyers in HC want to live in Irvine for whatever reasons (school etc you name it) . fact is for the same price you can easily buy home in Newport coast etc. but they are not doing that . ok ?
point 2 -- so now we have 250 buyers wanting to buy in Irvine in the 2.25 - 4 mm price range buying in HC over the past two years , right ?
point 3 -- I take at face value your 202 home resales at 2.25+ mm range in irvine over last 2 years - these are non HC sales .
ok so far so good.
point 3 -- now imagine a world where if for some reason whatsoever (environmental concerns or whatever) the HC community did not get built . Now you have 250 buyers in the 2.25-4mm range looking for HC like homes but cannot find them because HC is not there.
Would at least some fraction of that 250 number have ended up buying existing resales and increasing this 202 existing re-sales number to perhaps 250 or maybe 300 ? Wouldn't the quail hill / TR sellers have loved that ? Remember these buyers ONLY want to buy in Irvine , as we have already established.
How is then HC not taking away sales from your other beloved neighborhoods.
Or do you think these 250 buyers would have vanished into thin air " poof. " , just to provide justification for your romantic theory that nothing can affect resales of these beautiful vicara (or whatever the plan is) homes ?
Common sense is less common than we think ...
I have no sympathy for Toll / TNHC or any other builder . they are all greedy corporations running to maximize the bonuses of the C-suite . But they are only responding to what the buyer wants / will take. Highly likely that when QH was built those arches were a popular design feature. But like boy bands of the late 90s, they have not aged well (well, except maybe Justin Timberlake).
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
If that was your original point, I would agree.fortune11 said:
But this is what you said:
How do you know they had their pick froom QH but it's a fact they didn't? What if those buyers couldn't find a QH home they liked or didn't even look at QH?
And even though 250 buyers chose HC... that doesn't exclude that almost 200 chose surrounding resales.
Maybe it's just the way I read it, but you make it sound like people preferred HC over other areas much more ("voted with their feet / $$") but all I was trying to say was that isn't the case.
If there were only 50-100 sales in the surrounding areas, you have a point... but almost 200? That's too close to call "fact" that people voted with their $$.
Did I say that? But by the same token, just because HC exists doesn't mean that no one will buy resales.
If HC didn't exist, would the 200 sales have been 450? No... because as I said before, resale market is limited by whatever is listed... and that's why that 200 number is compelling because resales have limitations that new sales do not which makes your position not as strong (as my original response to your post stated).
This is the second time you have said this and I don't think this applies.
You still have not proven that statement about "quail hill homes sitting on MLS for ages". And once I pointed out the Redfin number, you started changing your point a bit. Or maybe that was your point all along and you were using hyperbole which is fine but saying I don't have common sense doesn't prove anything.
I don't agree with totally with your last statement about "what the buyer wants".
No buyer said "remove the driveway" or "make the sideyard only 5 feet wide". There is a history of posts on TI and IHB that talks about how builders steer buyers towards designs that maximize their profit and are not exactly what the buyers want.
So yes, it's more "what the buyer will take"... or settle for.
Again, subjective. Many (including me) don't like those square modern design homes they put up at Beacon Park and Parasol Park, but they ones in Beacon sold fast. Does that mean buyers voted with their $$ and all new home projects should be modern only?
Just because it sells, doesn't mean it's what the people wanted/voted for.
Actually there were many homeowners who sold their QH homes for good tax-free profit to buy in HC in hope of another home run, including popular local realtor. Time will tell if they made a correct move or not.
Vicara is a great neighborhood with most of ~100 homes having good view and privacy. Floorplans are very average though.
Vicara is a great neighborhood with most of ~100 homes having good view and privacy. Floorplans are very average though.
Wow....I'm suprised to see both tracts are mostly sold out. This must have been the most expensive community Toll has sod outside of Manhattan.
No wonder, they are trying to replicate the homes in other parts of Irvine. I wonder which of their communities will have the highest appreciation given the current selling price? How will this compare to futue appreciation of areas like Newport Coast?
No wonder, they are trying to replicate the homes in other parts of Irvine. I wonder which of their communities will have the highest appreciation given the current selling price? How will this compare to futue appreciation of areas like Newport Coast?
Zippohunter
Member
AlexG said:
So far Vistas are doing really well. Sold many lots they just released. The Savona (equivalent to Santa Monica at HC) just got a deposit for a lot priced at $3.4 Million.
Zippohunter
Member
Somewhat unexpected is how well both Vistas are doing well with non-view lots. Some of them have large lots and are private but many are average sized lots. What is good is that there are not many lots where you back straight to a rear neighbor. There are elevation changes and at least some green behind most lots.
The Alta Vista single load street with views are expected to be 3.5 - 4+ million.
Next Bella Vista release has view lots and is said to have 500K premiums.
The Alta Vista single load street with views are expected to be 3.5 - 4+ million.
Next Bella Vista release has view lots and is said to have 500K premiums.
Got some inside information on the buyers of a few of the lots that recently sold...
One is a famous NBA basketball player...don't really want to "bust him out" on the Internet, but he is a really good player. Most casual NBA fans definitely know who this is.'
One is a famous Chinese actress. Probably one of the most famous ones from a semi-mainstream Chinese movie that was released in the US. Was featured in many Ang Lee movies.
One is a famous NFL football player who is playing for the LA chargers.
I guess maybe the home prices have a chance to appreciate if these are the types of people that are purchasing into the community. Not the typical lawyer, doctor, engineer (two income earning family) you find at QH, LA, or even TR.
One is a famous NBA basketball player...don't really want to "bust him out" on the Internet, but he is a really good player. Most casual NBA fans definitely know who this is.'
One is a famous Chinese actress. Probably one of the most famous ones from a semi-mainstream Chinese movie that was released in the US. Was featured in many Ang Lee movies.
One is a famous NFL football player who is playing for the LA chargers.
I guess maybe the home prices have a chance to appreciate if these are the types of people that are purchasing into the community. Not the typical lawyer, doctor, engineer (two income earning family) you find at QH, LA, or even TR.