Georgia Tech and UCLA Admissions

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Panda said:
Below I have done some comparison of Tech and UCLA in terms of ROI and Tuition as fees. I really think that Tech will get on the FCB radar in the years ahead. Admission to tech this year was 23% vs 51% in 2011.

admission.jpg


2017 Admissions:
UCLA Admission :    17.3%
Georgia Admission : 23.3%

UCLA ethnic makeup:
Asian 39%
White 31%
Latino: 20%
Black  4%

Georgia Tech ethnic makeup:
Asian 20%
White 50%
Latino 6.5%
Black  6.6%

UCLA California residence tuition 4 years : $138,708

Georgia Tech - Georgia residence tuition 4 years : $113,472
Georgia Tech - Georgia residence tuition 4 years : $$73,440 with Hope Scholarship



Best ROI:
Rank #3 : Georgia Tech
Seven career sectors that Georgia Institute of Technology graduates most often pursue are all concentrated in engineering: software, mechanical, electrical, aerospace, project, civil, and senior mechanical. Among these careers, the average annual salary is $73,137 ? roughly $14,000 less than the cost of a complete degree program. For this reason (as well as the average amount of financial aid received by students), it's easy to see why GIT graduates earn such a high ROI over the course of 30 years.
Cost: $87,030
30 Year Net ROI: $1,389,000
% Aid: 78%

Best ROI:

Rank #36 : UCLA

A public research facility, the University of California (UCLA) is one of ten campuses within the state's educational system. Boasting 13 nobel laureates and 12 MacArther fellows, UCLA developed a reputation of academic excellence through its dedication to advanced research. These factors contribute to the ROI of students who earn a degree from the Los Angeles university. The school has a wide variety of STEM degree offerings which include chemical engineering, biotechnology, and computer science.
Cost: $120,000
30 Year Net ROI: $890,700
% Aid: 61%
Average Aid Amount: $15,117
30 Years ROI with Aid: $955,200
Average Aid Amount: $10,946
30 Years ROI with Aid: $1,440,000

Source:https://www.bestcolleges.com/features/best-roi-colleges/
Source:https://www.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/georgia-tech-freshman-profile-2018.pdf
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hate that we have a 100% book tax here in CA
 
Eyephone. it can change and state could possibly remove the HOPE scholarship all together. The HOPE scholarship only covers the four year tuition which amounts to about $40k in present dollars. The Zelle Scholarship covers beyond the tuition, but harder to qualify.

I didn't have any debt or college loans after graduating from the business school at University of Michigan, therefore it my goal to provide the same for my boys. Knowing that college expenses for a state schools is about $120,000 per child today, it is a good to goal to start planning for your children's college expenses.
 
LOL. you are right. It appears that that the Cali's book tax is $700 per year.

Kings said:
Panda said:
Below I have done some comparison of Tech and UCLA in terms of ROI and Tuition as fees. I really think that Tech will get on the FCB radar in the years ahead. Admission to tech this year was 23% vs 51% in 2011. UCLA costs $6,309 per year more than Georgia Tech. In 4 years, UCLA costs $25,236 more than Georgia Tech.

admission.jpg


2017 Admissions:
UCLA Admission :    17.3%
Georgia Admission : 23.3%

UCLA ethnic makeup:
Asian 39%
White 31%
Latino: 20%
Black  4%

Georgia Tech ethnic makeup:
Asian 20%
White 50%
Latino 6.5%
Black  6.6%

UCLA California residence tuition 4 years : $138,708

Georgia Tech - Georgia residence tuition 4 years : $113,472
Georgia Tech - Georgia residence tuition 4 years : $$73,440 with Hope Scholarship



Best ROI:
Rank #3 : Georgia Tech
Seven career sectors that Georgia Institute of Technology graduates most often pursue are all concentrated in engineering: software, mechanical, electrical, aerospace, project, civil, and senior mechanical. Among these careers, the average annual salary is $73,137 ? roughly $14,000 less than the cost of a complete degree program. For this reason (as well as the average amount of financial aid received by students), it's easy to see why GIT graduates earn such a high ROI over the course of 30 years.
Cost: $87,030
30 Year Net ROI: $1,389,000
% Aid: 78%

Best ROI:

Rank #36 : UCLA

A public research facility, the University of California (UCLA) is one of ten campuses within the state's educational system. Boasting 13 nobel laureates and 12 MacArther fellows, UCLA developed a reputation of academic excellence through its dedication to advanced research. These factors contribute to the ROI of students who earn a degree from the Los Angeles university. The school has a wide variety of STEM degree offerings which include chemical engineering, biotechnology, and computer science.
Cost: $120,000
30 Year Net ROI: $890,700
% Aid: 61%
Average Aid Amount: $15,117
30 Years ROI with Aid: $955,200
Average Aid Amount: $10,946
30 Years ROI with Aid: $1,440,000

Source:https://www.bestcolleges.com/features/best-roi-colleges/
Source:https://www.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/georgia-tech-freshman-profile-2018.pdf
Click to expand...

hate that we have a 100% book tax here in CA
Click to expand...
 
Panda's Prediction of Georgia Tech's ethnic make up : freshman class of 2027:
2027 US NEWS National University Rankings : Georgia Tech ranked in Top 25

Asian 32%
White 38%
Latino 7%
Black 10%

2018 US NEWS Rankings for UC schools:

Rank #  First Tier UC
21        UC Berkeley
21        UCLA
21        USC - Private

            Second Tier UC
37        UC Santa Barbara
42        UC Irvine
42        UC San Diego
46        UC Davis

            Third Tier UC
81        UC Santa Cruz

            Fourth Tier UC
124      UC Riverside


 
Just like the Federal Perkins loan program expired under Trump.
(Federal Perkins loan program provided low interest loans to college students)

Panda said:
Eyephone. it can change and state could possibly remove the HOPE scholarship all together. The HOPE scholarship only covers the four year tuition which amounts to about $40k in present dollars. The Zelle Scholarship covers beyond the tuition, but harder to qualify.

I didn't have any debt or college loans after graduating from the business school at University of Michigan, therefore it my goal to provide the same for my boys. Knowing that college expenses for a state schools is about $120,000 per child today, it is a good to goal to start planning for your children's college expenses.
Click to expand...
 
Eyephone,
I think the HOPE Scholarship will still be around in 10 years. Perhaps the full tuition will not be reimbursed, but even with a price tag of $113,472, it such a great value as the average Tech grad has a starting salary of $70k. In less than 2 years , a Tech grad would recover his investment. I look at colleges a lot like investments. With the HOPE scholarship, the newly minted Tech grad would recover his 4 years of college costs within a year.


Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even

eyephone said:
Just like the Federal Perkins loan program expired under Trump.
(Federal Perkins loan program provided low interest loans to college students)

Panda said:
Eyephone. it can change and state could possibly remove the HOPE scholarship all together. The HOPE scholarship only covers the four year tuition which amounts to about $40k in present dollars. The Zelle Scholarship covers beyond the tuition, but harder to qualify.

I didn't have any debt or college loans after graduating from the business school at University of Michigan, therefore it my goal to provide the same for my boys. Knowing that college expenses for a state schools is about $120,000 per child today, it is a good to goal to start planning for your children's college expenses.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
No one knows. I guess a person can hope that the hope scholarship will be around.

Panda said:
Eyephone,
I think the HOPE Scholarship will still be around in 10 years. Perhaps the full tuition will not be reimbursed, but even with a price tag of $113,472, it such a great value as the average Tech grad has a starting salary of $70k. In less than 2 years , a Tech grad would recover his investment. I look at colleges a lot like investments. With the HOPE scholarship, the newly minted Tech grad would recover his 4 years of college costs within a year.


Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even

eyephone said:
Just like the Federal Perkins loan program expired under Trump.
(Federal Perkins loan program provided low interest loans to college students)

Panda said:
Eyephone. it can change and state could possibly remove the HOPE scholarship all together. The HOPE scholarship only covers the four year tuition which amounts to about $40k in present dollars. The Zelle Scholarship covers beyond the tuition, but harder to qualify.

I didn't have any debt or college loans after graduating from the business school at University of Michigan, therefore it my goal to provide the same for my boys. Knowing that college expenses for a state schools is about $120,000 per child today, it is a good to goal to start planning for your children's college expenses.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Panda said:
Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even
Click to expand...

i think the real question is what value do you put on the alumni network of each school.  usc has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country.  not sure about georgia tech.  while the initial price tag of a degree at usc may be +$200k, depending on what line of work you go into that $200k could be paid back many times over with certain occupations (e.g. commission-based work) that you can leverage your alumni status.  of course, this depends largely on the individual's ability to network, maintain relationships, attend alumni events, etc.
 
The alumni network value is the unknown wild card. For most you, if your son or daughter got into a top tier Ivy like Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Chicago, Dartmouth, Princeton or Yale an $300k price tag maybe worth it for the network and prestige the school brand provides. I would honestly consider paying that price tag if one of my boys got into those first tier Ivy schools. However if the decision boiled down to USC, Brown, Emory, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cornell, or Emory vs Tech? I don't think the $300k price tag is worth it... What is your opinion?
https://news.usc.edu/trojan-family/as-uscs-acceptance-rate-drops-academic-excellence-rises/

USC admission rate 69% in 1980
USC admission rate 17% in 2016

One thing for sure is that if you got into USC in the mid 1990s, you have a college brand equity that has appreciated in value by 10X today. One of my high school buddies seriously got in with a 2.9 GPA and 1060 SAT score back in 1994. He did have Crazy Rich Asians parents in Taiwan.

Kings said:
Panda said:
Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even
Click to expand...

i think the real question is what value do you put on the alumni network of each school.  usc has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country.  not sure about georgia tech.  while the initial price tag of a degree at usc may be +$200k, depending on what line of work you go into that $200k could be paid back many times over with certain occupations (e.g. commission-based work) that you can leverage your alumni status.  of course, this depends largely on the individual's ability to network, maintain relationships, attend alumni events, etc.
Click to expand...
 
It?s hard to put a value on the alumni network or the prestige factor. Some alumni build their career off of it. And some may never use it.  There?s also other non-career benefits like having your future kids be legacies :)

I always find these hypothetical college questions kind of silly. Let them get into said colleges first before parents start ticking off the ones they?re willing to send them to.
 
Agreed. Bones you graduated from top tier Ivy League school right? What kind of value would you place on your alumni network or the prestige factor vs graduating from a top state school like Cal or UCLA? How much of your alumni network or prestige factor has helped you achieve your goals and dreams?

I guess the discussion I would like to have is "if your kids are smart enough to get into an Ivy League school"... is the $300k price tag worth it for the parents if your kids got in?
 
Panda said:
Agreed. Bones you graduated from top tier Ivy League school right? What kind of value would you place on your alumni network or the prestige factor vs graduating from a top state school like Cal or UCLA? How much of your alumni network or prestige factor has helped you achieve your goals and dreams?

I guess the discussion I would like to have is "if your kids are smart enough to get into an Ivy League school"... is the $300k price tag worth it for the parents if your kids got in?
Click to expand...

It?s hard for me to chime in bc no offense USC/UCLA grads but having grown up/schooled/colleged/worked on the east coast, I don?t get the whole USC/UCLA ?Prestige? thing.

And I?m also going to punt on the second question. Honestly a lot of it depends on the kid. What are their goals and dreams - academcially, socially, financially?  For example, if they want to make films, then yea, going to USC (or UCLA for LA proximity) probably makes sense.  The ?worth it? question can?t be answered in a vacuum.
 
I?m too lazy to search but didn't I post a poll about who wanted their kids to go to Ivy or not? Or was that for which type of college we all went to?

@Panda: Just have the twins start a new Kpop group.
 
Panda said:
The alumni network value is the unknown wild card. For most you, if your son or daughter got into a top tier Ivy like Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Chicago, Dartmouth, Princeton or Yale an $300k price tag maybe worth it for the network and prestige the school brand provides. I would honestly consider paying that price tag if one of my boys got into those first tier Ivy schools. However if the decision boiled down to USC, Brown, Emory, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cornell, or Emory vs Tech? I don't think the $300k price tag is worth it... What is your opinion?
https://news.usc.edu/trojan-family/as-uscs-acceptance-rate-drops-academic-excellence-rises/

USC admission rate 69% in 1980
USC admission rate 17% in 2016

One thing for sure is that if you got into USC in the mid 1990s, you have a college brand equity that has appreciated in value by 10X today. One of my high school buddies seriously got in with a 2.9 GPA and 1060 SAT score back in 1994. He did have Crazy Rich Asians parents in Taiwan.

Kings said:
Panda said:
Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even
Click to expand...

i think the real question is what value do you put on the alumni network of each school.  usc has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country.  not sure about georgia tech.  while the initial price tag of a degree at usc may be +$200k, depending on what line of work you go into that $200k could be paid back many times over with certain occupations (e.g. commission-based work) that you can leverage your alumni status.  of course, this depends largely on the individual's ability to network, maintain relationships, attend alumni events, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

for usc in particular, i believe you would need to stay in the greater los angeles area in order to really leverage that $300k.  i would agree that usc is not on the same level as top ivy schools in terms of national recognition/respect, but if you're in the usc "bubble" here in socal then it could be worth it.  i work with a few usc grads and as soon as someone comes into the office for a meeting and it's revealed they're also a trojan, it's a completely different atmosphere.  they're all drinking the same kool-aid, that's for sure.

i think the price tag depends on where else your kids got in and what degree they're pursuing.  stem degree at ivy vs. usc at the same price?  ivy all day.  stem degree at cal state vs. usc?  cal state would likely prove to be a better roi.  art degree at cal state vs. usc?  usc might get you further based on name alone.
 
I actually think college is the last overpriced bastion in the United States that has not been exposed to true competition.  That being said , until that changes , everyone is still better served by trying to get their kids into the best schools possible .

People underestimate how much geography and brand name recognition still matters , even if underlying quality may not be as good . The fact is best paying jobs in aggregate , are in West  and east coast and elite coastal schools will always have the upper hand in term of the higher echelon of jobs , esp those that rely on network . Many companies recruit locally and while some may have token recruiting programs for far off state universities , they are many often spillover efforts when they can?t source what they need locally . 

One of the asset management firms I work with as a client in downtown LA  , when they expanded into a new area, hired 2 mbas from UCLA . One was a campus type and the other came via a referral .  Now , could they have found a better candidate in Georgia . Possibly . But people only have so much bandwidth and time and when it comes down to it, for better or worse , familiarly bias and comfort zones take over .
 
Kings said:
Panda said:
The alumni network value is the unknown wild card. For most you, if your son or daughter got into a top tier Ivy like Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Chicago, Dartmouth, Princeton or Yale an $300k price tag maybe worth it for the network and prestige the school brand provides. I would honestly consider paying that price tag if one of my boys got into those first tier Ivy schools. However if the decision boiled down to USC, Brown, Emory, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cornell, or Emory vs Tech? I don't think the $300k price tag is worth it... What is your opinion?
https://news.usc.edu/trojan-family/as-uscs-acceptance-rate-drops-academic-excellence-rises/

USC admission rate 69% in 1980
USC admission rate 17% in 2016

One thing for sure is that if you got into USC in the mid 1990s, you have a college brand equity that has appreciated in value by 10X today. One of my high school buddies seriously got in with a 2.9 GPA and 1060 SAT score back in 1994. He did have Crazy Rich Asians parents in Taiwan.

Kings said:
Panda said:
Compare this to a minted USC grad - (major in Finance, Computer Science, or Engineering). The average salary of USC grad is not much different from a Tech grad but the 4 year price tag for USC is right around $295,000.


USC return on investment : $295,000 4 year tuition / $72.000 first year salary =              4 years to break even
Georgia Tech return on investment : $72,000 4 years tuition / $72,000 first year salary = 1 year to break even
Click to expand...

i think the real question is what value do you put on the alumni network of each school.  usc has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country.  not sure about georgia tech.  while the initial price tag of a degree at usc may be +$200k, depending on what line of work you go into that $200k could be paid back many times over with certain occupations (e.g. commission-based work) that you can leverage your alumni status.  of course, this depends largely on the individual's ability to network, maintain relationships, attend alumni events, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

for usc in particular, i believe you would need to stay in the greater los angeles area in order to really leverage that $300k.  i would agree that usc is not on the same level as top ivy schools in terms of national recognition/respect, but if you're in the usc "bubble" here in socal then it could be worth it.  i work with a few usc grads and as soon as someone comes into the office for a meeting and it's revealed they're also a trojan, it's a completely different atmosphere.  they're all drinking the same kool-aid, that's for sure.

i think the price tag depends on where else your kids got in and what degree they're pursuing.  stem degree at ivy vs. usc at the same price?  ivy all day.  stem degree at cal state vs. usc?  cal state would likely prove to be a better roi.  art degree at cal state vs. usc?  usc might get you further based on name alone.
Click to expand...

Steven Spielberg went to CSULB and then graduated later. But he was rejected from USC 3 times.
http://www.theblackandblue.com/2011/04/05/the-steven-spielberg-three-step-guide-to-rejection/


 
fortune11 said:
I actually think college is the last overpriced bastion in the United States that has not been exposed to true competition.  That being said , until that changes , everyone is still better served by trying to get their kids into the best schools possible .

People underestimate how much geography and brand name recognition still matters , even if underlying quality may not be as good . The fact is best paying jobs in aggregate , are in West  and east coast and elite coastal schools will always have the upper hand in term of the higher echelon of jobs , esp those that rely on network . Many companies recruit locally and while some may have token recruiting programs for far off state universities , they are many often spillover efforts when they can?t source what they need locally . 

One of the asset management firms I work with as a client in downtown LA  , when they expanded into a new area, hired 2 mbas from UCLA . One was a campus type and the other came via a referral .  Now , could they have found a better candidate in Georgia . Possibly . But people only have so much bandwidth and time and when it comes down to it, for better or worse , familiarly bias and comfort zones take over .
Click to expand...

It's all about name recognition.  Georgia Tech sounds like a regional school.  UCLA would too if it were called UC Los Angeles.
 
Name recognition does change. Berkeley was always the #1 state school in California. In 2018, 113,409 student applied to UCLA vs 89,294 to Berkeley. Acceptance rate for UCLA in 2018 is a stunning 12%, vs 17% for Berkeley. Today, UCLA is clearly the #1 state school in California from % of students admitted. USC also went from a fourth tier school in the 90s to become the top 21 matching the rank of UCLA and Cal University of Chicago is now ranked #3, ahead of all the tier 1 Ivy schools except Harvard and Princeton.

In the south, University of North Carolina - Chapel has always been known as the top state school in the south, which will soon get replaced by Georgia Tech... but like Eyephone's article about Steven Spielberg, the brand name of the school will matter less for our children as the labor force will become less and less W2 and transform into more independent contractors. 

UCLA fall 2018 applicants :      113,409    Acceptance rate 12%

Berkeley fall 2018 applicants :    89,294    Acceptance rate 17%

ucla.jpg
 
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