Freedom of speech? Not in Obama?s America...

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I have no problem with the attack ads from either side of this campaign. If one side employs "dirty" tactics, then so be it as long as it is within the law. From the looks of the posted articles, it is legal. My issue is with Senator Obama calling for criminal investigations when they are not warranted in order to stop these "damaging" ads.



I have no real political affiliations with either major party, but if I was Obama and these ads had no truth to them, I would look at them as a gift from McCain...and would promptly slam him over their airing and their inaccuracy. I think McCain and his supporters need to learn the old saying of "Better to remain silent and let them think your stupid, then to open your mouth and confirm it". When will the Democrats ever learn to pick a fight instead of always waiting for one to come to them.



And if they are true...then stop crying about it.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1219904296]Winex



Lets check those facts of yours again.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html



You are still getting spoon fed propaganda. The Ayers link is so weak you?re embarrassing

yourself and ruining any credibility you have.



"Obama was 8. No he was 11". Come on man. Lets work that Muslim school stuff or his drug

use. That at least is a first hand issue and not guilt by simple association.

Sure hope you dont make a living as an attorney.



Do you have a bomb shelter in your back yard and a tin foil hat collection as well ?</blockquote>


Bltserv-



Not atypical for a liberal to attack someone personally for simply presenting facts without, of course, facts of their own. Dispute it all you want, call Winex and whomever else a racist for questioning another man's judgment, call the Republicans as many bad names as you want, do whatever makes you feel good to publicize your own ignorance - it matters little unless you've got the facts to support your position. Facts are not propoganda - they are facts, they are stubborn things.



So here are the facts:

William Ayers is/was a member of the Weather Underground. Ayers bombed the United States Capitol. Ayers never apologized and to this day is "proud" of his terrorist past. This is a quote from Ayers "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Ayers' father is a wealthy and well connected former executive of energy corporation Exelon. Ayers' father is good friends with the Daleys - of Chicago politcal fame.



Mr. Obama served on the Board of the Woods Fund of Chicago with Ayers with full knowledge he was a terrorist - see quote above. Ayers is now a professor at the University of Illinois. A recent journalists request to review the Woods Fund documents stored at the Univ. of Illinois' library - Ayers' employer - was denied by Ayers' father's friend, Mayor Daley. After several days and non-main stream media (read conservative media) uproar, access was recently granted. It remains unknown whether documents were destroyed. Upon entering politics, Ayers was a key advisor to Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama actually launched is first campaign from Ayers' apartment. There are reports that he planned his campaign from Ayers' house.



Question for you - are we (we being Americans - not Republicans/conservatives/racists/etc..) not allowed to question why Barack Obama would associate with a known, unrepentant terrorist? Should we not ask why he does not come clean about the details of their association? Should we not ask why he underplays their relationship? In 40 years, should Osama Bin Laden teach at Oxford and lead a model life - should we not still feel ill towards him?



These are the facts. Please let me know if these are illegitimate questions. To the extent possible, please avoid the personal attacks and respond with facts of your own to counter or refute the ones I presented. If you cannot, please admit that you treated Winex unfairly, that you did not know the extent of the relationship between Mr. Obama and Ayers and that as a defense mechanism - you insulted Winex, calling him a racist and that you were wrong. Thanks.
 
Oh, and on McCain and the attorney scandal where Bush fired US district attorneys who didn't go along with politically motivated prosecutions of Democrats or who prosecuted guilty Republicans:



His campaign manager <a href="http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/mccain_aide_doj_scandal_nonsen.html">said it was</a> "mostly a combination of nonsense and politics and provides us no concern at all."



Vote McCain if you want a politicized Department of Justice!



Vote Obama if you want the DOJ to obey the law of the land.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1219904296]Winex



Lets check those facts of yours again.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html



You are still getting spoon fed propaganda. The Ayers link is so weak you?re embarrassing

yourself and ruining any credibility you have.



"Obama was 8. No he was 11". Come on man. Lets work that Muslim school stuff or his drug

use. That at least is a first hand issue and not guilt by simple association.

Sure hope you dont make a living as an attorney.



Do you have a bomb shelter in your back yard and a tin foil hat collection as well ?</blockquote>


BLTSERV, allow me to apologize. I should have known that anything that required beyond a 3rd grade reading level would be utterly incomprehensible to you.



Allow me to simply my earlier message.



You are an idiot and a dipshit. You have failed to refute a single fact that I posted.



Clear enough?
 
[quote author="FairEconomist" date=1219949989]Oh, and on McCain and the attorney scandal where Bush fired US district attorneys who didn't go along with politically motivated prosecutions of Democrats or who prosecuted guilty Republicans:



His campaign manager <a href="http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/mccain_aide_doj_scandal_nonsen.html">said it was</a> "mostly a combination of nonsense and politics and provides us no concern at all."



Vote McCain if you want a politicized Department of Justice!



Vote Obama if you want the DOJ to obey the law of the land.</blockquote>
Wow, that is a stretch. The quote was made back in September of 2007, almost a year ago, and long before Schmidt became McCain's campaign manager last month. Furthermore, the quote was referring to the impact of hiring Griffin to work at Mercury, not as a reflection of the episode as a whole. I got all of that from reading the link your provided and not the wishful spin you want to put on it. You still have yet to prove that McCain himself "has no problem with Bush?s outrageous politicization of the Justice Department" and, if this is the best you've got, you might as well just admit you were talking out of your ass and drop the subject.
 
Feel free to post anything by McCain objecting to the most aggressive politicization of Justice in my lifetime. Good luck looking! Especially since the guy hired to politicize the Arkansas office, Tim Griffin, is <a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/republican_national_committee.php">working for him</a>.
 
[quote author="FairEconomist" date=1219961902]Feel free to post anything by McCain objecting to the most aggressive politicization of Justice in my lifetime. Good luck looking! Especially since the guy hired to politicize the Arkansas office, Taylor Griffin, is <a href="http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/mccain-rules-ou.html">working for him</a>.</blockquote>
Jesus... are you really asking me to disprove your claim because you can't prove it to be true? You can't even get your facts straight from your own links and you want *me* to do your work for you? Get real.



BTW, Griffin wasn't hired to "politicize" the office, he was hired to replace the fired attorney, whose firing was politically motivated. Not the same thing.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1219897978][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1219875100]Actually, Obama has asked the 527s to sit this one out, <a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/yet_another_demaligned_outside.php">including one to which Soros gave money.</a> McCain has not done so for the Swift Boat group.</blockquote>
Great, but what does that have to do with either of the questions I asked?</blockquote>


A lot with the second one.



<blockquote>One more question: Are you as outraged at the amount of money George Soros has dumped into 527?s since 2003 as you are about Simmons or is the ?din billionaires can generate? acceptable <strong>when it benefits your candidate</strong>?</blockquote> (Emphasis added.)



I was pointing out that whatever money Soros gave to a 527 was not benefitting Obama.
 
[quote author="WINEX" date=1219955887][quote author="bltserv" date=1219904296]Winex





You have failed to refute a single fact that I posted.



Clear enough?</blockquote>


Geez...If I had a penny for everytime a Democrat changed the topic rather than answering the direct question...



;)
 
[quote author="BMP 309" date=1219962577][quote author="WINEX" date=1219955887][quote author="bltserv" date=1219904296]Winex





You have failed to refute a single fact that I posted.



Clear enough?</blockquote>


Geez...If I had a penny for everytime a Democrat changed the topic rather than answering the direct question...



;)</blockquote>


Thanks BMP309. But can you do me a favor? The next time you quote a post of mine to BLTSERV, don't omit the parts where I call him an idiot or a dipshit...
 
Winex.



Thanks for the kind comments. Typical Neo Conservative.

If you dont agree with them they get verbally abusive quickly.

I call it the "hand grenade syndrome". The conservative will forget to throw the grenade

and it just blows up in his face. His anger gets in front of his ability to

think rationally. Very typical. You can see him getting red and is a walking heart attack.



So with regard to Ayers.



"The UIC records showed that Ayers was instrumental in securing the $50 million education grant to reform Chicago Public Schools, part of a national initiative funded by the late Ambassador Walter Annenberg. . After Chicago was awarded the money, Obama served as president of the Challenge's board of directors, the fiscal arm that disbursed the grants to schools and raised private matching funds. Ayers participated in a second entity known as the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, the operational arm that worked with the grant recipients."



This does not appear to me to be terrorist activity. Raising Money from Annenberg Foundation.

The man is after all a Professor at the University of Illinois Chicago.

Sure he went over the edge in his past.

Not sure if your old enough to have protested the War in Viet Nam. I was.

And many extremists of that time are still active in society. Just because the are on

the same board does not prove anything worth so much hate.



Your attack on Obama just reaks of the same "swift boat tactics" that Americans can see through. Its going to backfire tragically for the GOP.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1219967935]Winex.





The man is after all a Professor at the University of Illinois Chicago.

Sure he went over the edge in his past.

Not sure if your old enough to have protested the War in Viet Nam. I was.

And many extremists of that time are still active in society. Just because the are on

the same board does not prove anything worth so much hate.



Your attack on Obama just reaks of the same "swift boat tactics" that Americans can see through. Its going to backfire tragically for the GOP.</blockquote>


Sure he went over the edge? Over the edge is a fist fight at a bar. He detonated a bomb in the United States Capitol. You cannot seriously argue that this act of terrorism, which incidentally he takes pride in, is some indisriminate act by a misguided youth.



Also, regarding your comments about Winex's "attack" against you, are you familiar with the phrase "pot calling the kettle black?" If not, you ought to be.
 
[quote author="TR4" date=1219968531][quote author="bltserv" date=1219967935]Winex.





The man is after all a Professor at the University of Illinois Chicago.

Sure he went over the edge in his past.

Not sure if your old enough to have protested the War in Viet Nam. I was.

And many extremists of that time are still active in society. Just because the are on

the same board does not prove anything worth so much hate.



Your attack on Obama just reaks of the same "swift boat tactics" that Americans can see through. Its going to backfire tragically for the GOP.</blockquote>


Sure he went over the edge? Over the edge is a fist fight at a bar. He detonated a bomb in the United States Capitol. You cannot seriously argue that this act of terrorism, which incidentally he takes pride in, is some indisriminate act by a misguided youth.



Also, regarding your comments about Winex's "attack" against you, are you familiar with the phrase "pot calling the kettle black?" If not, you ought to be.</blockquote>


BLTSERV is absolutely blameless here. It's my fault for not agreeing with him that I am in the KKK.
 
Ok, Winex, how many people were working on that Fund thing, and

what was it supposed to do?



If the guy is guilty of something, he's right there, why isn't he arrested.

Statute of Limitations or some other reason?



If there were 5 people and they met every week, that's one thing.



If there were 50 or 150 people and they met a couple of times a year

that is something else.



If the group was doing something useful and good, why should O resign

from it?



And I really hate it when both sides start name calling. It is not

necessary, and should not be part of this blog, except, perhaps, for

realtors. Or, dishonest brokers.



But not each other.
 
[quote author="lawyerliz" date=1219971844]

And I really hate it when both sides start name calling. It is not

necessary, and should not be part of this blog, except, perhaps, for

realtors. Or, dishonest brokers.



But not each other.</blockquote>
First time on the internet during an election Liz? This is mild (and only going to get more heated) compared to 2004. And if Obama loses, the intarwebs will asplode!
 
<blockquote>how many people were working on that Fund thing, and

what was it supposed to do?



If there were 50 or 150 people and they met a couple of times a year

that is something else.



If the group was doing something useful and good, why should O resign

from it?</blockquote>


right on, liz... like i mentioned before, lets all hope kevin bacon never does something terrible or we're all tainted!
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1219985622]<blockquote>how many people were working on that Fund thing, and

what was it supposed to do?



If there were 50 or 150 people and they met a couple of times a year

that is something else.



If the group was doing something useful and good, why should O resign

from it?</blockquote>


right on, liz... like i mentioned before, lets all hope kevin bacon never does something terrible or we're all tainted!</blockquote>


I take it you have never seen his movies... he has done plenty of terrible things.
 
you're right. i'm only a few degrees from a guy who not only appeared in a movie with denise richards, did full frontal in that movie. when the national inquirer comes looking for me i'll be hiding in the bathroom.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1219987545]you're right. i'm only a few degrees from a guy who not only appeared in a movie with denise richards, did full frontal in that movie. when the national inquirer comes looking for me i'll be hiding in the bathroom.</blockquote>


Oh... and... you are only a few degrees away from Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker. Start doing the math, you might be closer to the Bacon than you think. We know a certain someone's cousin who was in Rush Hour II during the massage scene with all the girls.



Dude... you are so doomed. You better make that the bunker when the Inquirer comes, that bathroom ain't gonna do it.



Thank gawd this is a politics thread, because if TenMagnet found this thread I would be getting PMs galore for a phone number. :-P
 
Why yes, the first time I posted anything was here, last Sept, or Oct when

I joined. Which was the first time I'd read a blog, any blog.



Whose movies and what's supposed to be wrong with them?



Gosh, the hub used to work for Janet Reno in the M-Dade state atty's

office, so I am one degree away from Clinton, who surely has met

Obama, so 2 degrees away from him. So I have some responsibility

for Clinton's lapses? I don't think so.



So everybody who raised the Funds should have excused themselves,

since there was a Bad Guy also doing so?



I still think that name calling is a bad thing.



At least people could be funny, subtile or amusing about it,

which so far the name calling has avoided. Winex can surely

think up something funny, he's a smart guy.
 
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