Fires

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[quote author="Shooby" date=1226843817]I left Tustin at 4pm today to go to Hacienda Heights. They shut down the 57 north a little past Imperial Hwy. I had to take local roads, and all of the main streets (Imperial, Harbor, Brea, etc) were like parking lots.



I got to Hacienda at 7pm, 3 hours later.</blockquote>


I was traveling from Santa Ana to Diamond Bar yesterday, the oddsey took over 2 hours. Heard the 57 was closed at Imperial so I took the 91 west to Harbor. Took an hour to get from Fullerton to La Habra on Harbor so I moved over to Euclid which was moving a little faster. Took Euclid up to Hacienda Blvd. and wound my way through La Habra Heights to Hacienda Heights, then took Colima to Diamond Bar. This trip should have taken 15 minutes. It was exciting looking at all the smoke and the eerie orange glow of the sky though.
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226851968]Dear OC hillbillies: thanks for making the air disgusting for ten million people.



Have you guys considered putting together a fire department, or is that too "socialistic" and "big government" for people in the land that gave us Richard Nixon? Just wondering.</blockquote>


What are you talking about? Placentia, Fullerton, Chino Valley all have their own departments. There are additional fire stations throughout Brea and there is at least one in Y.L. on La Palma west of Camino De Bryant. They do have their own resources but with something of this magnitude it takes additional man power.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1226881720]

What are you talking about? </blockquote>




<a href="http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/11/the_anti-govern.html">Grover, Katrina and Richard Milhous</a>



I sincerely apologize for the nasty tone, and really do hope that no one else is hurt beyond the heroic firefighters already injured.



But when "natural disasters" become an annual regional event, someone is obviously dropping the ball.
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226882400][quote author="SoCal78" date=1226881720]

What are you talking about? </blockquote>




<a href="http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/11/the_anti-govern.html">Grover, Katrina and Richard Milhous</a>



I sincerely apologize for the nasty tone, and really do hope that no one else is hurt beyond the heroic firefighters already injured.



But when "natural disasters" become an annual regional event, someone is obviously dropping the ball.</blockquote>


Oh, so by that logic, southern states are "dropping the ball" when hurricane devastation happens annually? How about mid-western states hit by tornados?
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226882400][quote author="SoCal78" date=1226881720]

What are you talking about? </blockquote>




<a href="http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/11/the_anti-govern.html">Grover, Katrina and Richard Milhous</a>



I sincerely apologize for the nasty tone, and really do hope that no one else is hurt beyond the heroic firefighters already injured.



But when "natural disasters" become an annual regional event, someone is obviously dropping the ball.</blockquote>


If you can identify who "dropped the ball" who ordered up these 80mph Santa Ana winds, let me know and I'll arrange an IHB stoning.



A former customer of mine lives in YL and would of lost his house had his dad not went over and spent the day spraying burning embers off the eaves (my customer was in Glamis since Wednesday and had no idea this was coming). His dad's new car is ruined from the burning embers, and his dad is windburnt and dehydrated from not drinking enough over the eight hours he was there. The fire in Chino Hills burned up close to the fenceline, and I watched them start backfires this morning on the fence of my old house.
 
Hormi - are you thinking that they should do controlled-burning to preempt massive fires like they do in some areas? I believe they already do cut fire breaks in the landscape (but it doesn't help much with 70 mph winds.)
 
[quote author="BethN" date=1226883589]Oh, so by that logic, southern states are "dropping the ball" when hurricane devastation happens annually? </blockquote>


Nope, but the Army Corps of Engineers and those who should have practiced some oversight over them sure did in terms of Katrina.



<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401819.html">Doh</a>
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1226881720][quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226851968]Dear OC hillbillies: thanks for making the air disgusting for ten million people.



Have you guys considered putting together a fire department, or is that too "socialistic" and "big government" for people in the land that gave us Richard Nixon? Just wondering.</blockquote>


What are you talking about? Placentia, Fullerton, Chino Valley all have their own departments. There are additional fire stations throughout Brea and there is at least one in Y.L. on La Palma west of Camino De Bryant. They do have their own resources but with something of this magnitude it takes additional man power.</blockquote>


Yeah, not to mention the <a href="http://www.ocfa.org/pages/ocfa.asp?filename=aboutus.asp">Orange County Fire Authority</a>, which protects over 1,380,000 residents from its 62 fire stations located throughout Orange County. OCFA Reserve Firefighters work 20 stations throughout Orange County.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1226885255]Hormi - are you thinking that they should do controlled-burning </blockquote>


I'm a complete idiot with absolutely nothing to offer in terms of what kind of infrastructure needs to be in place to keep this from being an annual event. But my point is that other folks with much more to lose seem to be in the same group.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226884946]his dad is windburnt and dehydrated from not drinking enough</blockquote>


Funny, I usually find myself dehydrated when I drink too much over an eight hour period...
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226886007][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226884946]his dad is windburnt and dehydrated from not drinking enough</blockquote>


Funny, I usually find myself dehydrated when I drink too much over an eight hour period...</blockquote>


Are you tying to be funny or are you just being an ass because it's fun?
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226889804]

Are you tying to be funny or are you just being an ass because it's fun?</blockquote>


I guess it is just a gift. But seriously - the kids in the LA/OC basin have bad enough air already. Doesn't it strike you as more than a little pathetic that an old man with a garden hose is what may have made the difference for an entire block? We're talking about a county with the population and money of Connecticut. Maybe the OCFA can afford another chopper or two?
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1226890853][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226889804]

Are you tying to be funny or are you just being an ass because it's fun?</blockquote>


I guess it is just a gift. But seriously - the kids in the LA/OC basin have bad enough air already. Doesn't it strike you as more than a little pathetic that an old man with a garden hose is what may have made the difference for an entire block? We're talking about a county with the population and money of Connecticut. Maybe the OCFA can afford another chopper or two?</blockquote>


We have a program of Mutual Aid in California. OCFA's air support was redeployed to the LA county fire when this one started. All of it.



That house was 1 mile from the fire at the time. The home one street over that mirrors this one burnt down. My friends dad didn't save "a whole block". He saved one house.



80mph winds blowing burning embers are impossible to stop. I watched a cotton gin bun to the ground about 15 years ago because one cotton module spontainously combusted (it happens) on a day when the wind was blowing 40 MPH.



<a href="http://www.eacourier.com/articles/2008/10/27/news/breaking_news/doc49065f0677f08927034467.txt">This one wasn't it, but it accurately describes what happens when you get a lot of combustable materal driven by wind.</a>



I drove to Fresno yesterday morning, returning last night. The ammount of fire equipment streaming in from NorCal was striking.



<a href="http://rescueus06.blogspot.com/2007/10/mutual-aid-california-style.html">http://rescueus06.blogspot.com/2007/10/mutual-aid-california-style.html</a>



We do the same sort of response in time of earthquake. One or two more helocopters aren't going to help.



After reading your responses, your outrage is noted, but your ingnorace is inexcusable. Please stop spewing nonsense.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1226891207]Watch the name calling...</blockquote>


Nobody's name calling.



<a href="http://www.geocities.com/good_clean_fun_2/circle-f.htm">But you can't fool them circle files.</a>
 
There are two kinds of responses to any disaster.



The first generally involves condolences, prayer and sympathy. All of which are appropriate and noble, especially when the disaster is of an unexpected and random nature.



The second, sometimes called "schadenfreude", involves questioning the judgement of the people involved, and the risks that they may have taken. It also often involves some resentment at the dangers that others experience when this lack of judgement has consequences that affect more folks than the ones originally involved. Often, folks are less sympathetic when the risks involved seem to have been easy for others to perceive.



Which response is more productive in terms of helping unfortunate events to not happen again, to the degree which they can be controlled by human choices? Which response do we usually see on this site?
 
It is hard to see how human choices had anything to do with THE WIND.



Southern California will burn every year - somewhere - forever because of the Santa Anas that blow in the fall, humans or otherwise.



You made a comparision of the OCFA to the response to Katrina. The OCFA evacuated 10,000 people in a matter of hours and nobody died. Katrina was an unmitigated disaster. I am no fan of the OCFA, but your comparison was unfair, unreasonable, and unfounded.



BTW, the Army Corps of Engeineers has been habitually underfunded for 40 years in regard to flood control projects.



<a href="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=hurricane_katrina_2997">Pay for half the job, expect half the work. Doesn't work so well for flood control.</a>
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226895736]

Southern California will burn every year - somewhere...

You made a comparision of the OCFA to the response to Katrina. </blockquote>


Yes, but it seems like these fires happen in hillsides with chaparral a little more often than they happen in the middle of asphalt-covered valleys.



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard">Unless I'm mistaken, there's even a street in YL named "Chaparral Ridge".</a>



And I didn't compare the actions of the OCFA to the response to Katrina - I did, however, provide a link which discussed how the ACofE's incompetence/underfunding may have been related to the scope of the disaster that Katrina was, in response to another poster. I also previously provided a link which provided a discussion (from last year) about how a rejected measure back in '05 may have left OC less prepared for disasters like this. Folks can read that article, ponder the fate of Nixon's birthplace, and draw their own conclusions.
 
No_Vas



I really wanted to add something but for once I am speechless. I don't think adding to Horm-whatever the name is would have any impact.



The best way to prevent property loss from the seasonal winds would be not to build on any down-slopes. Basically from the mountains to the coast from San Diego to Santa Barbara. The way to prevent flood damage is to only build on mountain tops. The way to prevent tornado damage is not to live in the Tornado Belt. We shouldn't live in Florida because of hurricanes and all of California has those pesky earthquakes. Of course those ocean close homes in Malibu should be abandoned.



These fall under natural disasters and may just be a reminder for us to be a little more humble in the face of nature.



Damn, I did add something. Lost my head!
 
When we lived in Chino Hills, my house leaned up against the Chino Hills State Park. I was very worried in 2004 when San Diego and Fontana burned up. Turns out I had good cause.



<a href="http://greenoc.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/90-percent-of-chino-hills-state-park-burned/890/">http://greenoc.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/90-percent-of-chino-hills-state-park-burned/890/</a>
 
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