CalBears96
Well-known member
marmott said:
To be fair, the Berlin and Austin factories are losing money because they're not churning out enough EVs due to supply chain issues.
EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
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To be fair, the Berlin and Austin factories are losing money because they're not churning out enough EVs due to supply chain issues.
VW has some hard choices to make around Porsche or they risk financial ruin with their EV strategy. There is no way they will have the volume to sustain a competitive high end EV lineup. The 911 was ubiquitous when I moved here in the 2000s but now you only see the occasional GT or lovingly cared for vintage air cooled 911 around - all sales consumed by Tesla. I NEVER see S class or 7 series on the road. Even Macans and Cayennes are much sparser after the Model Y was introduced. Lane Rovers however are quite popular up here.
I doubt an EV Macan sees the light of day - no profit $$ and with Germany about to go into a major recession from Uncle Vlad's gas cuts I seriously doubt Porsche will even hit their ICE volume numbers, which is what subsidizes their laughable EV strategy. The Taycan is a wonderful car, but the lack of a Tesla SC network will inhibit volume, meaning they'll never be profitable building EVs unless they sell them for $200K.
Ummm, Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world in terms of gross margins so they'll do just fine. They need to increase their EV line up for the very strict European emissions upcoming regulations and the Macan and Cayman are next up to the plate in the next 2-3 years.
Almost impossible right now. I got lucky and picking up an allocation for MSRP from someone who cancelled their purchase 5 days before the build locked so I was able to spec it to my taste. I couldn't even get an allocation from my dealer in Texas because they didn't have any allocations left and didn't know when more were coming in.
check your facts - Tesla latest OM was 19% whereas Porsche was 16.5%. But Porsche profits have to fund VW EV R&D, and they're bothj fighting a losing battle against Tesla. Toyota was always the most profitable until Tesla's recent pull-away. For a real deep dive into the numbers look here:
]https://inf.news/en/economy/8baaf4a0a40c0e1b8f8d74fe24919064.html[url][/url]
I keep providing data to show how ludicrous the competing EV business models are and no one provides any data to refute it. Tesla's head start on materials, software and EV-specific manufacturing are already turning out higher profit than Toyota or Porsche ICE product lines - let that sink in. I read yesterday the Ford CEO admitted the recent materials price increases have wiped out all profit on the Mach E. Only Toyota has a plan that can feasibly compete, and they've slow rowed full EV for a long time in favor of hybrid.
I love Porsches but there is no business rationale for VW to invest in a full blown EV strategy for Porsche. It would set them on a course to BK.
They don't have a choice, that's what governments in the EU and US are pushing for. As long as I have those last ICE Porsche GT cars in my garage I'll be a happy camper.
Was just going to say this. Also, if you put in an "order" and can wait.. also MSRP.
To be fair, the Berlin and Austin factories are losing money because they're not churning out enough EVs due to supply chain issues.
In April they delivered >2X the margin of the legacy domestics. Only Toyota comes close. Did you know they have exceeded the Toyota/GM output when the Fremont factory was the NUMMI jv? And doing that while having to bus workers in from Stockton.marmott said:
VW has some hard choices to make around Porsche or they risk financial ruin with their EV strategy. There is no way they will have the volume to sustain a competitive high end EV lineup. The 911 was ubiquitous when I moved here in the 2000s but now you only see the occasional GT or lovingly cared for vintage air cooled 911 around - all sales consumed by Tesla. I NEVER see S class or 7 series on the road. Even Macans and Cayennes are much sparser after the Model Y was introduced. Lane Rovers however are quite popular up here.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
I'm looking forward to the EV Macan coming out. The Taycan is just a stop gap (I'll probably pick up a Sport Turismo Taycan next year when there are more allocations) until the EV Macan starts selling in 2025.
USCTrojanCPA said:
I doubt an EV Macan sees the light of day - no profit $$ and with Germany about to go into a major recession from Uncle Vlad's gas cuts I seriously doubt Porsche will even hit their ICE volume numbers, which is what subsidizes their laughable EV strategy. The Taycan is a wonderful car, but the lack of a Tesla SC network will inhibit volume, meaning they'll never be profitable building EVs unless they sell them for $200K.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
OCtoSV said:
Ummm, Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world in terms of gross margins so they'll do just fine. They need to increase their EV line up for the very strict European emissions upcoming regulations and the Macan and Cayman are next up to the plate in the next 2-3 years.
Hugo Township
Active member
How hard is it to get a new Taycan wagon without ADM?
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
HMart said:
Almost impossible right now. I got lucky and picking up an allocation for MSRP from someone who cancelled their purchase 5 days before the build locked so I was able to spec it to my taste. I couldn't even get an allocation from my dealer in Texas because they didn't have any allocations left and didn't know when more were coming in.
USCTrojanCPA said:
check your facts - Tesla latest OM was 19% whereas Porsche was 16.5%. But Porsche profits have to fund VW EV R&D, and they're bothj fighting a losing battle against Tesla. Toyota was always the most profitable until Tesla's recent pull-away. For a real deep dive into the numbers look here:
]https://inf.news/en/economy/8baaf4a0a40c0e1b8f8d74fe24919064.html[url][/url]
I keep providing data to show how ludicrous the competing EV business models are and no one provides any data to refute it. Tesla's head start on materials, software and EV-specific manufacturing are already turning out higher profit than Toyota or Porsche ICE product lines - let that sink in. I read yesterday the Ford CEO admitted the recent materials price increases have wiped out all profit on the Mach E. Only Toyota has a plan that can feasibly compete, and they've slow rowed full EV for a long time in favor of hybrid.
I love Porsches but there is no business rationale for VW to invest in a full blown EV strategy for Porsche. It would set them on a course to BK.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
And Toyota can't even put the wheels on right.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
OCtoSV said:
They don't have a choice, that's what governments in the EU and US are pushing for. As long as I have those last ICE Porsche GT cars in my garage I'll be a happy camper.
marmott
Active member
I don't understand how you can expect all traditional manufacturers to give up on their EV plans knowing it's their only way to survive past 10 to 15 years. They are not just going to close shop.
Not sure what was decided in the US but in Europe past 2035 all cars will need to be zero emission. They don't have a choice.
Not sure what was decided in the US but in Europe past 2035 all cars will need to be zero emission. They don't have a choice.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Because only having ICE is the real unicorn and rainbows.
Hugo Township
Active member
Cadillac Lyriq reviews out today. Looks like a good car. Anyone know a Cadillac dealer that would do it without ADM?
NotAnEarlyBird
New member
Ioniq 5 - Tustin Hyundai. At msrp but need to get sealant.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
NotAnEarlyBird said:
Was just going to say this. Also, if you put in an "order" and can wait.. also MSRP.
NotAnEarlyBird
New member
Nope. I was actually considering Ioniq5 or Rav4 Prime plugin.
aquabliss said: