EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles

[OCtoSV]

I've stated this before and posted the WSJ Taycan reviews that have the data, but the rest of the EV industry is chasing Tesla's spare electrons given their head start and patent portfolio for every critical system, and a team of sw engineers that rival any big tech firm thanks to the stock price, which is the key to any EV and enables the recurring revenue subscription model, like Tesla now offering Full Self Driving for $199/mo or $10K OTA upgrade. But most interestingly my relatively inexpensive ($39K) Model 3 base had an unexpected effect on me: I have no desire for any nicer Tesla as it's already such an incredible upgrade from an ICE car, and I would not trade it for any ICE car, even a McLaren, as the experience is totally different. It thus has saved me an incredible amount of money, well beyond the fuel savings. Tesla even came to my house to rotate the tires.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@OCSV: I agree.

That's the one thing about the lower end 3/Y series before the price hikes is for the money ($40k-50k), even without any EV credit, the features/tech are the same or better than comparably priced ICE vehicles.

Other than a 360 camera (which I think they can enable with a software update) and maybe a bit more safety warnings... the Tesla has all the features you need without having to worry about paying more for higher trim levels like the other EVs (or even non-EVs).

@aquabliss:

Yeah... prices are crazy right now so MSRP is actually a "deal" on any new car. I am also waiting for a truck... really looking hard at Rivian but their R1S SUV is more compelling for just a little more money. I've been pricing ICE full size trucks and for the features I want, they are in the $50k+ range so if Tesla still intends to sell a $40k one... I'll take it. I know Ford and Chevy say the Lightning and Silverado-EV will start at $40k but I don't believe them when their ICE trucks that are not basic start beyond that.

Also looking at a PHEV since we probably have a good 2-4 years before any EV trucks are available in numbers but may end up with a 3rd EV because it's just so convenient.

If we do that, we may have to install L2 charging... and solar.

 

[irvinebullhousing]

Waiting for the ID.4 BUZZ.

 

[CalBears96]

I think this picture has changed almost 2 years later.

We went from a 1 PHEV home to now 2 EVs.

And with the Mach-E, ID.4, Ioniq5 and EV6 out... EV is prime time!!!

Just ordered the standard Model 3 for my wife to drive to work when we move down to Irvine. She works in Ontario, so it's about 70 miles round trip via 241.

 

[AW]

I think this picture has changed almost 2 years later.

We went from a 1 PHEV home to now 2 EVs.

And with the Mach-E, ID.4, Ioniq5 and EV6 out... EV is prime time!!!

Just ordered the standard Model 3 for my wife to drive to work when we move down to Irvine. She works in Ontario, so it's about 70 miles round trip via 241.

For whatever reason, I always get bad efficiencies on 241, the hill really ruins it, regen downhill doesn?t recover as well

 

[CalBears96]

I think this picture has changed almost 2 years later.

We went from a 1 PHEV home to now 2 EVs.

And with the Mach-E, ID.4, Ioniq5 and EV6 out... EV is prime time!!!

Just ordered the standard Model 3 for my wife to drive to work when we move down to Irvine. She works in Ontario, so it's about 70 miles round trip via 241.

For whatever reason, I always get bad efficiencies on 241, the hill really ruins it, regen downhill doesn?t recover as well

Same here on my Prius Prime when I drive home from work.  That last hill near 91 is so steep on both sides that my Prius has to switch to hybrid mode. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Tesla still leading in US EV sales (about 70%):
https://electrek.co/2022/03/17/tesla-still-dominates-us-electric-car-market/

California seems to biggest adopter of all EVs with 35%:

 

[Goriot]

Big bump in Tesla prices again.  Especially X.  Base model at $115k starting price. Pretty expensive.

 

[Danimal]

Big bump in Tesla prices again.  Especially X.  Base model at $115k starting price. Pretty expensive.

I can get Toyota/Lexus plugin hybrid SUV for $70k. Assuming i spend $2.5k annually for gas, it?ll be the same cost as Tesla in 20 years. Getting EV that expensive doesnt make sense economically for me.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I'm not a 1%er... anything over $50k is out of my range.

Heck... if I could stay below $30k for an EV I would... but that won't be for a while.

 

[freedomcm]

This is only true if you charge your batteries for free, like at your office.  Otherwise, you need it account for the electricity costs (whether via company or amortizing your rooftop solar).

Big bump in Tesla prices again.  Especially X.  Base model at $115k starting price. Pretty expensive.

I can get Toyota/Lexus plugin hybrid SUV for $70k. Assuming i spend $2.5k annually for gas, it?ll be the same cost as Tesla in 20 years. Getting EV that expensive doesnt make sense economically for me.

 

[AW]

To counter that, there?s less maintenance on EV, only tires, wiper blades and small battery over time.  Brake pads replacement around 200k miles (regen does the bulk of braking).

And also time.  Charging overnight/not waiting in Costco line,  hov sticker (if comparing against something that doesn?t qualify).  Knew a recruiter that travelled a lot and bought a S purely for the sticker. 
What?s your value of time, let?s say it?s worth or you make $100/hr X the amount of time you save taking hov over the course of whatever time period? (currently expires in 4 years, unless law changes?)

(I do agree the X is too expensive for what it is, falcon wing doors a fancy gimmick, r&d for a sliding door would be better)

This is only true if you charge your batteries for free, like at your office.  Otherwise, you need it account for the electricity costs (whether via company or amortizing your rooftop solar).

Big bump in Tesla prices again.  Especially X.  Base model at $115k starting price. Pretty expensive.

I can get Toyota/Lexus plugin hybrid SUV for $70k. Assuming i spend $2.5k annually for gas, it?ll be the same cost as Tesla in 20 years. Getting EV that expensive doesnt make sense economically for me.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

New report comparing EVs to their counterpart ICE cars say most are cheaper from day one:
https://electrek.co/2022/05/12/most-electric-cars-are-cheaper-to-own-from-day-one-report/

Electric cars aren?t just cheaper over the long term but have cheaper total monthly cost from day one for most buyers in the United States, according to a new report from Energy Innovation.

A common refrain from new car buyers is that they?d like to buy electric, but they can?t justify the higher initial price. We have known for a long time that total cost of ownership for an EV is generally cheaper than that of a gas car, but consumers typically put more importance on initial purchase price rather than actual costs. The report states that half of Americans think EVs are ?too expensive to seriously consider.?

This analysis expands on the total cost of ownership calculation ? rather than looking at the entire average 12-year period of car ownership, it looks at monthly costs over the length of a six-year financing term. Since 85% of cars in the United States are financed at purchase, this is a more realistic way to view costs than by looking at the sticker price.

Energy Innovation?s analysis looks at EV vs. gas vehicle costs in every state and includes financing costs, fuel (based on average fuel costs as of May 4 and average electricity costs), maintenance, insurance, EV incentives, and even dumb EV fees that some states have implemented. They looked at six vehicles with similar gas and electric versions, and tried to pick similar option levels as well:

Hyundai Kona SEL vs. Hyundai Kona Electric SEL
Hyundai Kona Limited vs. Hyundai Kona Electric Limited
Ford F-150 XL vs. Ford F-150 Lightning Pro
Kia Niro EX Premium vs. Kia Niro EV EX Premium
Volvo XC40 Inscription vs. Volvo XC40 Recharge Plus
Nissan Versa S Xtronic CVT vs. Nissan LEAF
The analysis notes that these aren?t direct comparisons ? many EVs have more features at ?base? option level than gas versions of cars do ? but they?re the closest they could get. For example, the LEAF is a good car, and the Versa ? just isn?t.

When comparing all of these costs for each vehicle and each state, the report found that for most cars and most states, the EV is cheaper on a monthly cost basis:

And this will even get cheaper as more EVs come out and if gas prices remain high.

EVs are prime time qwerICE.

 

[Kenkoko]

(I do agree the X is too expensive for what it is, falcon wing doors a fancy gimmick, r&d for a sliding door would be better)

The heavy price tag also comes with the title of the fastest SUV on the planet.  Model X plaid is absurdly fast with 0-60 mph in 2.5s & 1/4 mile in 9.9s.

And it's the only Tesla (rated over 6000 lb.) that can qualify for section 179 tax deduction. This is very appealing to business owners.

 

[freedomcm]

That study is more editorial than facts.
ignores the expiration of the $7500 credit, and assumes purchase at MSRP.

 

[qwerty]

I didn?t read the article but 12 year period of ownership doesn?t seem realistic - perhaps it is but I don?t know anyone with a car older than 7 years.

Also, it seems to be picking what are probably some of the cheapest EVs. Aren?t Teslas the most dominant/best selling EVs?

I?d be curious to see what the numbers look like with Teslas.

Still not ready for prime time!!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I didn?t read the article but 12 year period of ownership doesn?t seem realistic - perhaps it is but I don?t know anyone with a car older than 7 years.

Also, it seems to be picking what are probably some of the cheapest EVs. Aren?t Teslas the most dominant/best selling EVs?

I?d be curious to see what the numbers look like with Teslas.

Still not ready for prime time!!

The articles agrees with you... it dilutes the comparison down to a 6-year financed outlay which is more realistic than a 12-year ownership.

The reason why it chose the cars it did was because there was either a same model ICE counterpart or very close within brand. There is no ICE Tesla to compare to.

However, if you compare the 3/Y to $40-$60k ICE cars, you will find a similar cost savings (well... back when you could get 3/Ys for that cheap).

You'll be driving an EV one day... just like you got into an ARM years ago.

 

[qwerty]

Well my better half is looking at a model y. She hates going to the gas station so we may end up with one soon :-(

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Needs to reserve now, long waits for Model Ys.

I?d recommend a Mach-E, Ioniq5, EV6 or even ID4? you still get the $7500 tax credit and an easier transition to an EV.

 

[CalBears96]

Well my better half is looking at a model y. She hates going to the gas station so we may end up with one soon :-(

Unless you're getting Model Y Performance, you won't be getting it anytime soon. Right now, Model Y is slated for Nov 2022-Feb 2023, but who knows if it's going to be delayed again.

I ordered the Model 3 back in March. Delivery date was supposed to be August. Then it got pushed back to Aug-Oct. Now it's been delayed again, to Oct-Nov.

And at the end of March, I placed an order to Mach E. Tuttle Click Ford accepted my order and placed the order again with Ford. That was on April 1st and it still says Place Order (In Progress) on Ford website.  Looks like Ford has a lot of orders to process.

At this rate, we still have to go to the gas station for a while, probably until end of the year.  :