Economy and Climate Change

[irvinehomeowner]

like a year ago when a very similar storm slammed into us but no one seems to remember that….it’s just rain…

TROPICAL STORM KAY BRINGS RAIN, POSSIBLE FLASH FLOODING TO SOCAL​

Hurricane Kay has been downgraded to a tropical storm after first making landfall in Mexico.

By ABC7.com staff

Weakening Tropical Storm Brings Rain to Sweltering Southern California

Showers popped up Thursday morning in parts of Southern California as the region remained in the grip of a week-long heat wave. Here’s when the heat will finally ease.

www.nbclosangeles.com

You're cherry picking again... I don't think that one even hit landfall in SoCal... so "slammed" is hyperbole.

 

[morekaos]

You obviously don’t remember this but the panic porn was similar and the rainfall was almost exactly the same…no big deal but was then…not cherry picking read the news back then..

Rain falling in Southern California threatening areas of drought-stricken state with possibilities of flash floods
Parts of Southern California were under flash flood warnings Friday as a tropical storm threatens to drop a year’s worth of rain in areas of the drought-stricken state, according to forecasters.

The warning was in effect for Riverside County and northeastern San Diego County, according to the National Weather Service. The warning includes Indio, southeastern Palm Springs and Coachella.

“Life threatening flash flooding of creeks and streams, urban areas, highways, streets and underpasses,” is possible according to the warning.

Two to 4 inches is expected over 36 hours on Friday and Saturday at Imperial County Airport, which on average gets 2.38 inches of rain each year. If Imperial receives more than 3 inches of rain, it will make this month its wettest September on record; the previous wettest September was in 1976.

In Palm Springs, which typically sees 4.61 inches of rain annually, 2 to 4 inches are forecast. Three inches at Palm Springs would put this month in the top three wettest Septembers for the city, where the average September rainfall is 0.24 inches.

And Yuma could see 1.5 inches – which would make 2022 the wettest September since 2009. The city’s average September rainfall is 0.68 inches.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/09/weather/tropical-storm-kay-heat-wave-friday/index.html

A hurricane that just made landfall in Mexico is triggering flood concerns in parts of Southern California

Heavy rains will drench southern California Friday – potentially bringing several months to a year’s worth of rain to a normally arid landscape. But that’s not all: As the storm moves north, strong winds – far from providing immediate relief from California’s climate crisis-driven heat wave – actually could push already record temperatures higher in some places.

 

[Liar Loan]

Was there a hurricane with crazy winds preceding paradise?
No

Was there a hurricane with crazy winds preceding Maui?
Yes

so i guess you've never heard about how they can forecast the path of a hurricane and red flag wind warnings regarding fire danger

You're actually incorrect. The high winds were not due to the hurricane as initially reported. The high winds would have occurred whether or not the hurricane occurred due to warm/cold air mixing in the area near Hawaii. So it was actually very similar to Paradise in terms of being unpredictable.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

You obviously don’t remember this but the panic porn was similar and the rainfall was almost exactly the same…no big deal but was then…not cherry picking read the news back then..

Cherry picking because this is revisionist history.

There wasn't any "panic porn" because this hurricane wasn't making landfall in OC or LA. No one remembers because it didn't happen. If it did, you surely would have posted here but you didn't... so even you didn't remember.

Now who is the one who is overblowing stuff.

 

[morekaos]

…and if this proves to be true, it’s why this is political now. Local bureaucrats in their vain attempts to chase unicorns and rainbows have caused real deaths…

Hawaii official concerned with ‘equity’ delayed releasing water for more than 5 hours as wildfires raged​

M. Kaleo Manuel, former deputy director of the Hawaii Commission on Water Resource Management, waited for more than five hours to release water during the wildfires that devastated Maui, according to reports.

A former Obama Foundation leader — part of a program by the former President’s non-profit to help participants with coaching and “practical skill building for social change” — Manuel said he considered water an important tool for social justice.
Manuel was transferred to another position within the Department of Land and Natural Resources Wednesday, according to Honolulu Civil Beat, which first reported the story of the delay.

The West Maui Land Company said in an Aug. 10 letter to Manuel that his commission refused its request to divert streams to fill landowners’ reservoirs in the hard-hit Lahaina area until the wildfires raged out of control, according to a report.

Hawaii official concerned with ‘equity’ delayed releasing water for more than 5 hours as wildfires raged: report

An official who delayed the release of water during the deadly blaze on Maui believed equity needed to be discussed before distribution.

nypost.com

 

[morekaos]

Cherry picking because this is revisionist history.

There wasn't any "panic porn" because this hurricane wasn't making landfall in OC or LA. No one remembers because it didn't happen. If it did, you surely would have posted here but you didn't... so even you didn't remember.

Now who is the one who is overblowing stuff.

I remember because I did the exact same thing, went to a bar and watched football while it was coming down in sheets… the same bar

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I remember because I did the exact same thing, went to a bar and watched football while it was coming down in sheets… the same bar

You remember going to the bar. But do you remember a declaration of State of Emergency? Or even the name of the hurricane without looking it up? Or even blaming the "boy king" of overblowing that storm?

No you don't. Keep trying.

 

[morekaos]

I remember all those things, including that the boy king declared a state of emergency…what’s your point?

Governor Newsom proclaimed a state of emergency for the counties of Imperial, Inyo, Los Angeles, Riverside and San Bernardino due to Kay, which brought heavy rain and winds to Southern California last week, causing debris flows, damaging homes and critical infrastructure and resulting in a fatality and widespread evacuations.

 

[AW]

You're actually incorrect. The high winds were not due to the hurricane as initially reported. The high winds would have occurred whether or not the hurricane occurred due to warm/cold air mixing in the area near Hawaii. So it was actually very similar to Paradise in terms of being unpredictable.

Is there a daily mail link you can send?

"Hundreds of acres of wildfires have burned on Maui, driven by winds that were increased by Hurricane Dora."

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/09/1192996968/the-wildfires-in-maui-are-unusually-destructive-due-to-hurricane-doras-winds

"The fires on Maui started spreading widely Tuesday – fueled in part by violent winds from Hurricane Dora"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/weather/maui-county-wildfires-hurricane-dora/index.html

"At least 53 dead from raging Hawaiian brush fires enhanced by Hurricane Dora, high pressure winds"

At least 53 dead from raging Hawaiian brush fires enhanced by Hurricane Dora, high pressure winds

Multiple evacuations are underway on several Hawaiian islands as the influence of Hurricane Dora to the south of the islands and a strong ridge of high pressure to the north fuel dangerous wildfires.

www.foxweather.com

The timeline based on various news outlets:
1. Hurricane Dora with strong winds
2. Fire in Maui
3. Fire spread fast due to strong winds

With this mild Hurricane Hilary, even parts of San Bernadino county had evac warnings.
No evac warnings in maui, until after the fire had started, way too late, if they had done it prior, less lives would've been lost.
Less lives would've been lost if the gov't did a, b, c, x, y, z

So we're all glad at least we were pro active

If you and mk were in maui prior to dora hitting, you guys would've just shrugged and have said "wind's gonna wind" and do nothing? l o l

 

[morekaos]

More unicorn and rainbow hunting that’s costing peoples lives. Politics is killing people.

Hawaiian Electric Prioritized State-Mandated Green-Energy Push over Wildfire Prevention The firm’s fixation on environmentally friendly projects seemingly distracted the utility company from well-known problems within its energy grid. Following the 2019 wildfire season in Maui, which claimed the lives of 89 residents, the utility company conducted a review and was alerted to shortcomings within its energy grid, particularly its power lines emitting sparks. State Energy Officials: Hawaiian Electric Prioritized Green-Energy Push over Wildfire Prevention > Hawaii Free Press

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I remember all those things, including that the boy king declared a state of emergency…what’s your point?

Governor Newsom proclaimed a state of emergency for the counties of Imperial, Inyo, Los Angeles, Riverside and San Bernardino due to Kay, which brought heavy rain and winds to Southern California last week, causing debris flows, damaging homes and critical infrastructure and resulting in a fatality and widespread evacuations.

I don't see Orange County in there. And that was after the fact... for this one wasn't that declared before?

So not the same thing no matter how much you try to make us think so.

 

[morekaos]

Oh, so you want exactly the same dates times places to see the similarities in events? You have to be knowingly blind to not see it. The Boy King named a state wide state of emergency (day after/day of makes no difference) that covers the whole state including Orange County. But my point is, he didn’t even need to then. it’s just an excuse to grab more money not really do any good.

 

[Liar Loan]

Is there a daily mail link you can send?

"Hundreds of acres of wildfires have burned on Maui, driven by winds that were increased by Hurricane Dora."

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/09/1192996968/the-wildfires-in-maui-are-unusually-destructive-due-to-hurricane-doras-winds

"The fires on Maui started spreading widely Tuesday – fueled in part by violent winds from Hurricane Dora"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/weather/maui-county-wildfires-hurricane-dora/index.html

"At least 53 dead from raging Hawaiian brush fires enhanced by Hurricane Dora, high pressure winds"

At least 53 dead from raging Hawaiian brush fires enhanced by Hurricane Dora, high pressure winds

Multiple evacuations are underway on several Hawaiian islands as the influence of Hurricane Dora to the south of the islands and a strong ridge of high pressure to the north fuel dangerous wildfires.

www.foxweather.com

The timeline based on various news outlets:
1. Hurricane Dora with strong winds
2. Fire in Maui
3. Fire spread fast due to strong winds

With this mild Hurricane Hilary, even parts of San Bernadino county had evac warnings.
No evac warnings in maui, until after the fire had started, way too late, if they had done it prior, less lives would've been lost.
Less lives would've been lost if the gov't did a, b, c, x, y, z

So we're all glad at least we were pro active

If you and mk were in maui prior to dora hitting, you guys would've just shrugged and have said "wind's gonna wind" and do nothing? l o l

So you agree that the high winds existed regardless of Dora, but you're still incorrect because Dora didn't "hit" Maui. It was 500 miles away.

You also haven't explained how it's possible to predict where fires will start. The entire island was engulfed in wind. Three major fires broke out in different areas: West Maui, South Maui, and Upcountry on the slope of Heleakala. But let's assume you're Miss Cleo and can predict the future, where on Maui would you have sent everybody? How do you know your chosen area isn't going to catch fire?

 

[AW]

So you agree that the high winds existed regardless of Dora, but you're still incorrect because Dora didn't "hit" Maui. It was 500 miles away.

You also haven't explained how it's possible to predict where fires will start. The entire island was engulfed in wind. Three major fires broke out in different areas: West Maui, South Maui, and Upcountry on the slope of Heleakala. But let's assume you're Miss Cleo and can predict the future, where on Maui would you have sent everybody? How do you know your chosen area wasn't going to catch fire?

of course high winds exists there, we get high wind red flag fire warnings even here, but read all the news articles, it was further enhanced from dora

How would I know where it would start, that's not the point. The point was get ready just in case. As I've mentioned, even in Hilary, San Bernadino county gave evac warnings prior to landfall, up to the resident to actually do anything about it. In your case, you'd have done nothing, just like what happened there.
Aren't we all glad we were pro active, sure bet

Again, since you're so woke and so informed, more so than the experts, where are your links indicating that it wasn't from dora, i've already posted mine, npr, cnn, fox.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Oh, so you want exactly the same dates times places to see the similarities in events? You have to be knowingly blind to not see it. The Boy King named a state wide state of emergency (day after/day of makes no difference) that covers the whole state including Orange County. But my point is, he didn’t even need to then. it’s just an excuse to grab more money not really do any good.

Oh cmon. This was not the same as last September and you know it. You would have had numerous posts admonishing him like now. Go find some from September from you. You won't. Got caught on a lie and trying to dance. It's getting old. Stop politicizing.

 

[morekaos]

…a lie? What lie are you making up. Hurricane Kay is a factual event, very similar to this weeks nonevent.

 

[momopi]

Well, the problem yesterday wasn't that the parking lot was a mess. The problem was that Horizon, the street going into Costco (and the PGA Super Tour Store), was blocked by the cars waiting to fill up gas. That's how stupid people were yesterday. I still don't understand the mindset. Why the f do you need to fill up the full tank when you're going to leaving the freaking car at home in your garage and Monday will be just fine?

I work by the Spectrum, so my usual route is Alton to Technology Drive. From this direction you can pull in from Wendy's.

 

[Liar Loan]

of course high winds exists there, we get high wind red flag fire warnings even here, but read all the news articles, it was further enhanced from dora

How would I know where it would start, that's not the point. The point was get ready just in case. As I've mentioned, even in Hilary, San Bernadino county gave evac warnings prior to landfall, up to the resident to actually do anything about it. In your case, you'd have done nothing, just like what happened there.
Aren't we all glad we were pro active, sure bet

Again, since you're so woke and so informed, more so than the experts, where are your links indicating that it wasn't from dora, i've already posted mine, npr, cnn, fox.

You haven't answered how a preemptive evacuation would work in the real world (because you have no answer) but here is the link you requested:

But some immediate analyses of the winds observed in Hawaii have found Dora’s presence may have only increased the gusts’ speed by about 5 mph, Masters said. The high pressure — aided by a flow of hot, dry air from the Southwestern U.S. into the Pacific — could have been enough to stir damaging winds on its own.

The hurricane and its intensity were “certainly not the main effect” fueling the fires, Masters said, though its presence could have contributed to the disaster.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/12/hawaii-fires-climate-change-maui/

 

[AW]

You haven't answered how a preemptive evacuation would work in the real world (because you have no answer) but here is the link you requested:

But some immediate analyses of the winds observed in Hawaii have found Dora’s presence may have only increased the gusts’ speed by about 5 mph, Masters said. The high pressure — aided by a flow of hot, dry air from the Southwestern U.S. into the Pacific — could have been enough to stir damaging winds on its own.

The hurricane and its intensity were “certainly not the main effect” fueling the fires, Masters said, though its presence could have contributed to the disaster.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/12/hawaii-fires-climate-change-maui/

i already did, so people can prepare... instead of doing nothing, like being burned at home while watching football and drinking pina coladas

how does any preemptive evacuation help? jeez... remember, maui did not have any evacuation warnings before the fire

Know the Difference: What Evacuation Warnings and Orders Mean | Cal OES News

news.caloes.ca.gov

"An evacuation warning means there’s impending danger to your life or property. If a warning is given assume an evacuation order will follow. Start gathering important items for your family and pets. Any individuals who need extra time to evacuate, or anyone with large animals, should pack-up and leave when a warning is issued.

An evacuation order means there’s an immediate threat to your life and you need to leave right now! It’s critical to follow all directions from law enforcement to ensure you and your family evacuate safely."

link you sent, basically furthering my point, the fires where further enhanced due to dora
climate change (i think you mentioned climate wasn't the issue):
"The links between human-caused climate change and fires are well-established. Global warming means plants can more easily dry out, because warmer air hastens the evaporation of water. As the air sucks more moisture from the land, fire risks are increasing."

"Scientists said that likely provides the strongest connection between humans’ fossil fuel consumption, which emits greenhouse gases that warm the planet, and the likelihood of fires in Hawaii and elsewhere."

Dora effect:
"As wind sent fires spreading out of control Tuesday, many meteorologists pointed out that Hawaii found itself between a strong area of high pressure over the North Pacific and Hurricane Dora"

So yes, I'm inferring if dora wasn't there, the winds wouldn't have been as bad, because dora was there, the winds were worse

 

[Liar Loan]

i already did, so people can prepare... instead of doing nothing, like being burned at home while watching football and drinking pina coladas

how does any preemptive evacuation help? jeez... remember, maui did not have any evacuation warnings before the fire

Know the Difference: What Evacuation Warnings and Orders Mean | Cal OES News

news.caloes.ca.gov

"An evacuation warning means there’s impending danger to your life or property. If a warning is given assume an evacuation order will follow. Start gathering important items for your family and pets. Any individuals who need extra time to evacuate, or anyone with large animals, should pack-up and leave when a warning is issued.

An evacuation order means there’s an immediate threat to your life and you need to leave right now! It’s critical to follow all directions from law enforcement to ensure you and your family evacuate safely."

link you sent, basically furthering my point, the fires where further enhanced due to dora
climate change (i think you mentioned climate wasn't the issue):
"The links between human-caused climate change and fires are well-established. Global warming means plants can more easily dry out, because warmer air hastens the evaporation of water. As the air sucks more moisture from the land, fire risks are increasing."

"Scientists said that likely provides the strongest connection between humans’ fossil fuel consumption, which emits greenhouse gases that warm the planet, and the likelihood of fires in Hawaii and elsewhere."

Dora effect:
"As wind sent fires spreading out of control Tuesday, many meteorologists pointed out that Hawaii found itself between a strong area of high pressure over the North Pacific and Hurricane Dora"

So yes, I'm inferring if dora wasn't there, the winds wouldn't have been as bad, because dora was there, the winds were worse

A preemptive evacuation isn't possible without advanced knowledge that a fire will occur. Only Miss Cleo can know that.

I said climate was the smallest variable when you consider all the poor decision making that led to the tragedy. This article mirrors that view.

It also says Dora added up to 5 MPH to the wind speeds, so another minor variable. The wind speeds would have been 75 MPH instead of 80 MPH without Dora.