Does Irvine feel wealthy?

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<em>Yup, they pay cash and they don't care one whit if they are buying a depreciating asset. Anybody who is smart enough to accumulate that much cash is too stupid to wait until home prices decrease. <img alt="" src="images/smiley/msn/whatchutalkingabout_smile.gif" />





</em>you'd be surprised... there are many wealthy people who have no idea how to manage their wealth. being a very smart and successful doctor doesn't mean you're going to be smart and successful in everything else you do. plenty of cash-rich folks got burned on real estate in the 80s, then fell in love with stocks in the late 90s and got burned again, and now are getting scorched once more by RE <em>again!</em> they're just lucky they're good at their day jobs.
 
Every now and again, I get worked up over the shallow materialism of people in the area, but ultimately it doesn't impact my life, so I try to just ignore it.





Materialism is a trap. There is always someone with more of what you want or what you have. I know a family that owns a $20M+ beachfront home in Laguna Beach. No matter how nice of a home I may own in my lifetime, it is unlikely I will ever have anything that could compare. Does that mean I should live a life of unhappiness comparing my family wealth to theirs?





Personally, I try not to compare anything I have or do to anything anyone else has or does. I know this road leads to suffering and unhappiness, so I don't travel it. The problem I find with many people in Southern California is that they try to force me down that road. They have so much personal energy tied up in this useless endeavor that they cannot have a conversation without bringing up some kind of comparative. It is impossible for me to feel any joy for these people because all they want you to feel is envy. I envy no one. I don't allow myself to. This makes it difficult for me to interact with some people who are totally envy focused -- which is a lot of Irvine.





This whole thread -- Does Irvine Feel Wealthy? -- is an extension of the envy culture. What is wealth? Many people in Irvine sure try to feel that they have more and better material goods than their neighbors. By this measure, Irvine is very wealthy. Of course, this is often a sign of spiritual poverty, so if you define wealth as a feeling of true abundance, then Irvine is one of the most poverty stricken cities I have ever encountered.
 
<p>Actually, Asia has a completely different real estate system. The market is too expensive to buy and the mortgage system is non-existent. Only corporations/wealthy individuals get loans. </p>

<p>In S. Korea, you pay a lump sum to the landlord up front and then pay no rent for as long as you live there. The landlord get to use the money for investment purposes. When you move out, the landlord then pay your back the lump sum. It is a pretty good system because you can start small (like $10K) and save all of your income to move up. </p>

<p>In Taiwan, most people rent or live with their family. New developments have cropped out in the outskirts of Taipei where people buy their own condos but they are unbelieveably expensive. Many people also get help from their parents for down payments. Many parents give their sons a condo as a wedding gift or a dowry to the daughter to help with buying of a house.</p>

<p>I do not know Japan as well but I believe most people rent or stay at home. Home mortgages are basically non-existent.</p>

<p>China is a chaotic situation. Since it is a communist country, no one really own their own homes. The new wealthy people buy condos or apartment but most live in old buildings or governmentally-built structures.</p>
 
In most Asian countries they have heavy concentration of people in urban cities, and depopulating rural areas. In Taipei the RE prices are shoot up a lot over the past few years, even the new condos by Neihu are expensive, and will probably go up even more when MRT station opens. But if you owned a car and am willing to commute from say, Yilan, you can buy large SFR's in Yilan for the price of a small condo in Taipei. But if you invest in property in Yilan, it'd be very difficult to find a renter. My GF's parents own a house there and they joked that it's currently "in use" by cockroaches (empty).





To cite an extreme example, their eldest daughter's BF works for the local government (courts) in Yilan and as a benefit, he gets to rent a government owned condo (3 bed 2 bath) for 600 NT/month subsidized rate. It's old and doesn't have elevator, but that's $20 USD/month for rent, and the whole building is like half empty. You'd never find anything like that in Taipei. But most young people would rather die than to live in rural areas of Yilan.





In comparison, the father works for a TW construction company currently on a project in Tianjing, China. His investment condos there made 400% returns since 2000, and you can always find a tenant. However, a word of caution: construction quality in China only looks good on the surface, don't expect the building to last too long. Land is owned by government and you buy a "lease". Outside of Beijing and some major cities, the local government doesn't care if developers do "hit and run" development.



 
IMO, No, Irvine does not feel wealthy. It feels safe, new, well planned, practical and for me, like home.





However, it's cookie cutter here and that alone takes the wealthy aspect out of the equation. Just because the RE prices are inflated, doesn't qualify as wealth. It's not the same feel as I used to get when I'd drive in parts of San Marino, or drive south on Lake Boulevard in Pasadena towards Huntington passing through individually gated homes, the Blacker House etc. Same for the Hollywood Hills, Bel Aire, and on and on. Maybe it's just me, but 20' setbacks from the street 10' from your neighbor just doesn't qualify.




 
where is this magical place in irvine that has 20' setbacks from the street? that is but a dream for me in woodbury.
 
Irvine is and does look wealthy. I've been around Orange, Tustin, Villa Park, El Modena, Costa Mesa, Newport Beach, Santa Ana, Fountain Valley, Huntington Beach, Westminster, Garden Grove, Stanton, and Irvine... and I have to admit, Irvine looks immaculate. Sure it may not have the beachfront properties like Newport or Huntington; or be on top of the hills like Orange or Anaheim Hills; but it sure looks impressive. I was driving along Portola today and was very taken back by the beauty of Northpark and West Irvine. Personally, I prefer Huntington Beach over Irvine because I think Irvine, like its people, appear way too materialistic. For a big city (population over 100K), I still think it appears much nicer than Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, Orange, Fullerton, and Costa Mesa.
 
I have a healthy, happy, well-adjusted little boy whom I love more than anything else in the whole wide world. I have a job that is fun, pays well, provides me with a daily sense of accomplishment, and am surrounded by competent, friendly, wonderful colleagues. I am healthy and live in a beautiful, safe town where I can indulge in my favorite leisure activities such as hiking, and don't need to get on any freeway to do or buy just about anything I could want. In other words, I am richer than many of the people on this planet, and not a day goes by that I don't thank my lucky stars for my wealth.
 
<p>I don't understand the point of this and the other threads which make the implication (by someone who has never been here) that all people in Irvine are some sort of phony rich Slade Smiley types whose day of reckoning is about to come as Irvine comes crashing back to the likes of Detroit or Austin. Of couse, there are phony dicks in Irvine with greased back hair and Gucci sunglasses who like to cruise around the Uni HS parking lot in their 3-series to impress the young ladies with a facade of weatlh --- but those fools are everywhere, not just Irvine. Fake wealth manifests itself in many ways, depending on where you are. In Orange County, it is with cars and plastic body parts. In the Midwest where I grew up it is the size of your boat or RV. In Texas it is how high off the ground your can get your F-150. In the IE, it's by how many cars you have parked on your lawn. Point is, in every city and every town there are a proportionate number of a-holes who think they are something they are not --- Irvine and OC do not have the corner on this market. </p>

<p>Further, it is my observation that Irvine has a much higher proportion of down to earth people who live here because it is such a nice, safe place to raise a family than it does Slade Smiley's. Garfangle, if you make it out to Irvine go to the Spectrum or Costco or Target and count the number of Honda's and Toyota's in the parking lot. That will tell you a lot about how wealthy or not wealthy we think we are.</p>
 
CK,





I completely agree. I see the facades and OC lifestyle while at work in Irvine, but when I'm at home in my neighborhood it's a different story. I see kids, families, minivans and lots of people shopping at Target. Most are not flaunting their materialism left and right. I see BMW's and Mercedes, but they're not M6's and SL55's. I think everyone who works in OC have seen the "facade" in lots of fake people, but I don't see that nearly as much when I'm out and about running errands in Irvine rolling in the minivan dragging my two daughters through Trader Joes (because they get stickers), Ranch 99, and Costco.
 
<p>Being wealthy is having the ability to make choices. Often, choices are tied to financial freedom. In this context, I would guess that most people in Irvine are not wealthy. How often does one hear others saying something like, " I want to go to Mexico for a bit of R&R"? What prevents them from doing that? I am sure most of the readers can come up with lots of answers. I agree with IR's comment. It is about the abundance. and wealth. Mortgage and car payments are liabilities. They limit one's freedom. Unfortunately, financial freedom is intangible. Therefore, to many, it is difficult to show to others. Whereas, owning a home and fancy cars are more tangible ways of showing one's money/wealth. </p>

<p>Currently, I am staying temporarily in Europe for a few months trying to figuring out what I want to do with my life and my career. For the past two years, I have spent about 1 year i(altogether) in Europe. Paris, Hamburg and traveled extensively while I am in Europe. I actually want to move to Europe because their outlooks and quality of life. However, the weather in winter is not that fun. I do miss the great weather in Orange County. When I am here, I stay in a modest apt. And considering the weak US dollars, I have to look where my money is going. I would say that I am the bottom of the social totem pole. I see lots of fancy cars and beautiful apts in Hamburg (It is a pretty rich city) and yet it does not make me feel worthless because I do not have any of those things. However, when I am in Orange County esp in the Newport Coast area and the South Coast Plaza, I always feel so poor and inadequate. I cannot really explain why that is. Here in Europe, I don't drive a fancy car like I would back home. I take the Metro and other forms of public transportation and happy with it. I keep telling my friends back home that I feel so at ease here. I really don't know why the difference. Maybe it is something in the air that makes me feel that way. </p>
 
aenid, I know the feeling except it's the complete reverse for me as I'm from Europe....when I drive, or ride my Bike around Irvine, newport and other nice areas I think "Ooooh, that's a nice House/Car/Boat..." but it doesn't go any further than that...even though I don't feel like a Foreigner I don't feel like I have to compete...maybe it's because I feel like I'm on a working vacation? Do you ever feel the same way?



Coming originally from an Industrial City in the UK I'm in Utopia right now, I love to ride my Bike, so I have the weather and location (I live right on the Backbay Trail which takes me to the PCH and beyond)...plus I work in Irvine and only have a 1.8 mile commute...



Things don't get much better than this!!



The thing to remember every Day is we never know what we've got 'till it's almost gone....



But back to the OP, does Irvine feel rich? It does to me compared to where I come from....
 
i think there is obviously a facade of wealth in irvine and it can't be simply attributed to a handful of snotty kids. the fact that this discussion even exists, and i would bet everyone has had this same discussion 200 times outside this forum, is evidence. the facade is literally built into the homes and communities. the city planners and irvine co put a lot of effort into making sure each village and the city as a whole tells just the right story that they want it to. just take a look at any listing and it'll tell you what irvine thinks of itself.





<em>"beautiful estate in exclusive, gated irvine enclave! private parks and community priviledges -- resort-like amenities!"


</em>


translation: 2,000 sq ft tract home in northpark. there is an HOA.





the fact that realtors can use descriptions like that and people do fall for it, says a lot about the community and the buyers who want to live here. i have no problem admitting i often fall into the same thinking since i've moved to irvine but glad i have this forum to keep things in perspective.





here's why i think irvine will never become a truly, wealthy city in economic terms. it's simply a matter of what irvine is fundamentally -- a growing, metropolitan area. we can talk about how we <em>choose</em> to live here but the fact of the matter is most people live in irvine because they have a 9 to 5 job to get to. we just choose to pay a premium for irvine relative to some neighboring town, but for the most part we live in the general area because we have to. there's nothing at all exclusive about the town and i know plenty of people who pay less than $600/mo for a bedroom in a nice home or condo. aeneid hits it on the head -- it's about financial freedom and irvine does not have that. and i don't think it ever will simply because the most wealthy, exclusive communities tend to be distanced from the major commercial centers, where people choose to live in spite of where they work. the day i buy a home in some place like malibu, pv, laguna beach or coto, i guess i wont worry that it takes me 25 minutes to get to the nearest freeway and another 45 to get to work. at that point, hopefully, i wont be beholden to anyone but myself for the most part.





the beauty of irvine and the planned areas of newport and tustin is that we do have thriving commercial centers and can have wonderful suburban experience at the same time. if i worked in downtown LA, there'd be nothing as nice as woodbury within the same distance as i am to work now. its a fair trade-off and one i am completely happy to be a part of... and for that, i agree we are truly lucky and blessed. but on avg, no matter how it tries to sell itself, irvine will always be a working class town, albeit upper-middle class to lower-upper class working town. (wow that was wordy!)
 
I've been through at least half a dozen countries, and will say that we enjoy better material comfort than most. It's not just because we make more $, but also because we have better access to credit and loans. In some way you could say that we're materially well off, because it's easier for us to borrow huge sums of money.





Some would say that everyone's "quality of life" differs, and therefore just because we can afford a mortgage here doesn't mean we're better off. I beg to differ. Yes, someone living on an inexpensive Pacific Island (read: not Hawaii) and running a small net cafe isn't rolling in the $$, but some would say he enjoys a better, nicer, and more relaxed life. But he'd never be able to borrow $500k from the bank and invest in RE or some other business venture. It's far easier for us to do that here, and take the $ to poor-er areas where we'd feel wealthy.
 
Does Irvine feel wealthy? No. Compared to Santa Ana, Oakland or Tijuana, then yes, Irvine feels wealthy at least on the surface. To me Irvine feels safe, sterile and boring. Compared to some parts of the world that is a luxury, but for someone who grew up in Irvine, it feels empty and shallow, like something is missing. That's just me, however. Irvinesinglemom described wealth the best - being happy and content with solid relationships. It's not something that money can buy.
 
homebuilders should run that ad!





mortgage: $3000


property taxes: $500


mello roos: $400


happy and content with solid relationships: PRICELESS
 
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