Did gases from a dump ignite the Santiago fire?

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A dump is listed as being in the same location as where the fire started. I don't know the size of the dump, the years it operated, or what was dumped there. I'm not assuming anything. I just think that gathering information about the dump should be part of the investigation.

Janice
 
Why? You admit you don't know anything about the dump! "I don't know the size of the dump, the years it operated, or what was dumped there." Why should it be a core focus of the investigation?
 
<p>Sorry, no. No hahaha. IMHO, too much uninformed opinion demanding equal time, consideration and assumed validity is wrecking our public discourse and in a sense, is primary culprit in the lack of adequate resources to fight things like the fire, provide infrastructure repair, police protection or actual education since they drain our resources in debate and pursuit of disproving improbablities and pet theories instead of taking rational methodlogical approaches to issues.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Bubblegum said it in the comment above. Methane occurs naturally in our enviroment. But for it to be any factor in this case it would need to "Pool Up" or concentrate. It is heavier than the normal air. But on Sunday in this area you would be lucky to just stand up. The wind was gusting to 60MPH. No way could the heavier than air methane reach concentrations that would be above background levels. Janice I think its great you are putting effort into the "Dump and Landfill" problems that still exist in our enviroment. But your statements regarding old dump methane and this fire are to put it nicely. Dumb and unrealistic to the science of combustion and the physical evidence at the scene. Have they made any arrests yet ? </p>
 
Janice, the dump you are referring to has a page <a href="http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/SWIS/detail.asp?SITESCH=30-CR-0062">here at the CIWMB site</a>. There is a number listed, and a CIWB person responsible for that site. Call or email him and see if he has more information. CIWMB also inspects these places and the inspection results are listed.





For a list of most of the CIWMB site's, click on <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=76260&t=k&om=1">this link</a> and zoom into california.
 
joeyp

Thank you so much for the CIWB site document. Not much information about the dump, but there is a contact number. I appreciate your help.

Janice
 
The following FEMA report explains about the causes and dangers of underground fires in dumps (landfills).



Federal Emergency Management Agency,

United States Fire Administration, National Fire Data Center

May 2002 report

LANDFILL FIRES: Their Magnitude, Characteristics, and Mitigation



Excerpts from the report:

"The mixing of certain materials in a landfill can result in spontaneous combustion. Even in small quantities, some chemicals can ignite if exposed to one another.

The most common cause of underground landfill fires is an increase in the oxygen content of the landfill, which increases bacterial activity and raises temperatures (aerobic decomposition). These so-called "hot spots" can come into contact with pockets of methane gas and result in a fire. Of particular concern with these long-smoldering, underground fires is the fact they tend to smolder for weeks to months at a time. This can cause a build up of the byproducts of combustion in confined areas such as landfill site buildings or surrounding homes, which adds an additional health hazard.

Landfill fires that result from spontaneous combustion gradually increase as the weather warms, dropping in September. The peak period, however, occurs in October and November, when 22 percent of the spontaneous combustion fires occur."



The FEMA report is online.

Janice
 
I quoted the FEMA report to show that combinations of materials in a landfill can result in spontaneous combustion. Methane does not need a spark to set off a fire or explosion. The peak period for spontaneous combustion is in October and November (now). Read the report. Dumps (landfills) are not a laughing matter, they are dangerous. I wonder if FEMA informed the firefighters of the location of Silverado Canyon Disposal Station #9?

Janice
 
<p>I doubt that FEMA needed to as (1) the disposal station is inspected yearly by County Health Services Agency, and (2) the Orange County Fire Authority is the County agency deemed with responsibility for maintaining the HazMat database.</p>
 
<p>Janice, Not to moot your point too abruptly, but the location of ignition is being reported as Santiago and Silverado only because it is the biggest intersection in the area. My understanding of the area and photographs/footage from the investigation aired on the boobtube has suggested that the crime scene is located elsewhere.</p>

<p>EDIT: English Majors: Can I use moot like that?</p>
 
<p>Not an English major, but yes.</p>

<p>Aw Hobo... You're destroying my unsubstantiated theory that the arsonist is an ecoterrorist who is trying to make landfills look bad. </p>
 
<p>What a colossal waste of time, effort, and emotion. If any dump were to cause a wild fire in OC, they would simply state "this fire was started in the old blahblah dump, mostly likely as a result of A, B, and C". They wouldn't need to blame an arsonist, they wouldn't need to hide the evidence of an ecological cause, and they would gain nothing by obfuscating the truth.</p>

<p>With all due respect, Ms. England, you are nuttier than a fruitcake. Please go champion your cause somewhere more appropriate than a blog based on Irvine Real Estate, thank you.</p>
 
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