https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRtkgpv6bHEeyephone said:
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war".
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Ok , I will tell you how scientific people do it ? to eliminate the possibility of whether this is true or not, you just need an outside bookend. So take the lower bound in your number ? 8mm and then if the illegal crime rate in percentage terms , adjusted for geography etc is still lower than native born . That will prove it right there by elimination since we are already at the extreme scenario in terms of data sample . Now if the illegal crime rate is higher , then it may merit further investigation into the exact number but by then you atleast have prove your point .
See you can have your honesty cake and eat it too
You mean like a real simple check of the Federal Bureau of Prison s for citizenship? Here's the 2015 chart.
The current chart is herehttps://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_citizenship.jspshowing 79.8% US Citizenship.
Okay, some are 'unknown'. That would equate the illegal population at proportionality at what 66 Million?
Seems like for Federal incarceration, that non-citizens are over represented.
That data is there too. 6.8% are immigration. But it doesn't matter, you proved the point, the data is always going to have a problem. California reports, but they don't check citizenship, they check Country of Birth. The data level mirrors the Federal level at 20%. Of course, California is 27% non-native born.
I can just readily show you the reports that say they commit crimes at lower rates. I can also raise questions about that data.
In the end, it's a dog whistle.
The whole immigration thing. It all is a dog whistle for both sides. Trump whistles and xenophobes come screaming. Trump whistles and the left wingers come screaming about the racists.
However, if you want to really have fun, we should point out that MS-13 is actually, well, by Trumpian standards, more American than his wives. MS-13 was born here, in Los Angeles, Pico-Union back in the 80s. We then basically exported by clearing our jails.
JIMHO, any honest discussion of illegal immigration would identify that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are just desperate people fleeing bad situations. It would also admit any time you have a flux of desperate people, the bad apples graft along, That same discussion would have to admit then that wink wink, nod nod, of 3rd parties advertising for workers for processing plants in the USA is doing so with the full knowledge of the corporate and political food chain to provide disposable workers with no rights.
But it's okay, American's like their $0.69/lb chickens and 99 cents per pound grapes. And f--- it, we need someone to scrub the toilet too. or do cheap remodels, as long as we're okay with only the boss speaking English.
Dog whistle.
Yes but that is the USA. And they have rights. It's the same reason call centers are decentralizing and remote hosting workers in Montana still basic US workers just cheaper. Versus indentured servants.
It still stands, Amnesty was 1986. We're over 30 years, both parties are dog whistling this and neither intends to solve shit about it.
If we sent criminals to third countries, I agree that would be exporting our problems but as far as I know we don't do that.
We don?t even take care of our veterans.
Also, the mental health system is non valid.
And we are taking about US citizens.
But I find it convenient to blame a particular race. But on the other side of town Billy Bob is stealing from mailboxes. (I made that scenario up)
I disagree, people don't want to be treated like chattel and paid a pittance. Is the issue, it's basic work, or is the issue the work is increasingly under inhumane or dehumanizing conditions. Keep in mind half of Amazon's work force makes under $22K and turnover is rate is one of the highest.
And honesty time, if it's really work Americans won't do, then why don't really bite the bullet, pull the immigration plug an come work for whatever the company will pay without citizenship and get kicked out when the company is done with you. The whole wink wink, nod nod, the illegal are doing jobs Americans won't is IMHO, just skirting indentured labor.
But quick, blow another dog whistle before the believers start to think.
Soylent Green Is People said:
Ok , I will tell you how scientific people do it ? to eliminate the possibility of whether this is true or not, you just need an outside bookend. So take the lower bound in your number ? 8mm and then if the illegal crime rate in percentage terms , adjusted for geography etc is still lower than native born . That will prove it right there by elimination since we are already at the extreme scenario in terms of data sample . Now if the illegal crime rate is higher , then it may merit further investigation into the exact number but by then you atleast have prove your point .
See you can have your honesty cake and eat it too
nosuchreality
Well-known member
fortune11 said:Soylent Green Is People said:
Ok , I will tell you how scientific people do it ? to eliminate the possibility of whether this is true or not, you just need an outside bookend. So take the lower bound in your number ? 8mm and then if the illegal crime rate in percentage terms , adjusted for geography etc is still lower than native born . That will prove it right there by elimination since we are already at the extreme scenario in terms of data sample . Now if the illegal crime rate is higher , then it may merit further investigation into the exact number but by then you atleast have prove your point .
See you can have your honesty cake and eat it too
You mean like a real simple check of the Federal Bureau of Prison s for citizenship? Here's the 2015 chart.
The current chart is herehttps://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_citizenship.jspshowing 79.8% US Citizenship.
Okay, some are 'unknown'. That would equate the illegal population at proportionality at what 66 Million?
Seems like for Federal incarceration, that non-citizens are over represented.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
fortune11 said:
That data is there too. 6.8% are immigration. But it doesn't matter, you proved the point, the data is always going to have a problem. California reports, but they don't check citizenship, they check Country of Birth. The data level mirrors the Federal level at 20%. Of course, California is 27% non-native born.
I can just readily show you the reports that say they commit crimes at lower rates. I can also raise questions about that data.
In the end, it's a dog whistle.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
fortune11 said:
The whole immigration thing. It all is a dog whistle for both sides. Trump whistles and xenophobes come screaming. Trump whistles and the left wingers come screaming about the racists.
However, if you want to really have fun, we should point out that MS-13 is actually, well, by Trumpian standards, more American than his wives. MS-13 was born here, in Los Angeles, Pico-Union back in the 80s. We then basically exported by clearing our jails.
JIMHO, any honest discussion of illegal immigration would identify that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are just desperate people fleeing bad situations. It would also admit any time you have a flux of desperate people, the bad apples graft along, That same discussion would have to admit then that wink wink, nod nod, of 3rd parties advertising for workers for processing plants in the USA is doing so with the full knowledge of the corporate and political food chain to provide disposable workers with no rights.
But it's okay, American's like their $0.69/lb chickens and 99 cents per pound grapes. And f--- it, we need someone to scrub the toilet too. or do cheap remodels, as long as we're okay with only the boss speaking English.
Dog whistle.
@no: you make a great point regarding cheap labor.
Heck companies are advertising in Puerto Rico for jobs in the States. (It?s like a perfect match they are looking for work and companies are looking for workers)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.northjersey.com/amp/623967002
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...ouri-employers-vie-for-puerto-rican-workforce
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...are-leaving-puerto-rico-in-droves?context=amp
Heck companies are advertising in Puerto Rico for jobs in the States. (It?s like a perfect match they are looking for work and companies are looking for workers)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.northjersey.com/amp/623967002
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...ouri-employers-vie-for-puerto-rican-workforce
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...are-leaving-puerto-rico-in-droves?context=amp
nosuchreality
Well-known member
eyephone said:
Yes but that is the USA. And they have rights. It's the same reason call centers are decentralizing and remote hosting workers in Montana still basic US workers just cheaper. Versus indentured servants.
It still stands, Amnesty was 1986. We're over 30 years, both parties are dog whistling this and neither intends to solve shit about it.
I like to think of deporting criminals more as "Return to Sender" than "Exporting Our Problems" but I see your point. Perhaps El Salvador should do more to help returning MS-13 members reform their lives.nosuchreality said:
If we sent criminals to third countries, I agree that would be exporting our problems but as far as I know we don't do that.
nosuchreality said:
We don?t even take care of our veterans.
Also, the mental health system is non valid.
And we are taking about US citizens.
But I find it convenient to blame a particular race. But on the other side of town Billy Bob is stealing from mailboxes. (I made that scenario up)
nosuchreality
Well-known member
eyephone said:
I disagree, people don't want to be treated like chattel and paid a pittance. Is the issue, it's basic work, or is the issue the work is increasingly under inhumane or dehumanizing conditions. Keep in mind half of Amazon's work force makes under $22K and turnover is rate is one of the highest.
And honesty time, if it's really work Americans won't do, then why don't really bite the bullet, pull the immigration plug an come work for whatever the company will pay without citizenship and get kicked out when the company is done with you. The whole wink wink, nod nod, the illegal are doing jobs Americans won't is IMHO, just skirting indentured labor.
eyephone said:
But quick, blow another dog whistle before the believers start to think.
Nosuch ? I think you generally are on the right track here but let me clear up the ?dog whistle ? usage which i think may be incorrect here
Dog whistle is a subtle signal intended for a particular group ? like when ?law and order ? is used by republicans as a code for racist policies
Well that era is now over . I don?t know if you realized but with trump , everything is out in the open . No more code language , everyone is free to expose their dark underbelly . Haven?t you seen those trump rallies and what goes on
Dog whistle is a subtle signal intended for a particular group ? like when ?law and order ? is used by republicans as a code for racist policies
Well that era is now over . I don?t know if you realized but with trump , everything is out in the open . No more code language , everyone is free to expose their dark underbelly . Haven?t you seen those trump rallies and what goes on
And all of you crying holier than thou regarding undocumented labor and just ?tear the whole thing down ?
Just take a look into your 401ks and stock portfolios . Do you see any companies benefiting from cheap immigrant labor
All of you clamoring for earnings growth being strong in the trump era . Where is SG&A on that income statement ? What will it look like if suddenly all wages reset higher by 25 30 % ? What will happen to your evangelical pastor claiming that God is now personally blessing your stock portfolios because trump is president ?
Look around at all the new construction (and so called max ROI or whatever ) and who is building it ? Even if some of all of the workers are legal , how about their support networks
Yes and while we are clipping those 4-5 percent real estate commissions and patting ourselves on the back for another successful mortgage deal , where are your higher volumes coming from ?
Yeah right ...
Just take a look into your 401ks and stock portfolios . Do you see any companies benefiting from cheap immigrant labor
All of you clamoring for earnings growth being strong in the trump era . Where is SG&A on that income statement ? What will it look like if suddenly all wages reset higher by 25 30 % ? What will happen to your evangelical pastor claiming that God is now personally blessing your stock portfolios because trump is president ?
Look around at all the new construction (and so called max ROI or whatever ) and who is building it ? Even if some of all of the workers are legal , how about their support networks
Yes and while we are clipping those 4-5 percent real estate commissions and patting ourselves on the back for another successful mortgage deal , where are your higher volumes coming from ?
Yeah right ...