Costa Mesa...good location gone wrong!

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[quote author="bkshopr" date=1245142355]Bad schools like the one that I went to had a amazing teacher like Linda purdy. All 32 of her students did finished college and became very involved citizens in society by living very productive life. I was at the bottom of her class. My class mate Arturo Vargas a graduate of Stanford was recently appointed to an important political position by President Obama. This was his article from 2001. 50% of her students attended Ivy League, Cal Tech, Stanford, Berkeley, and Claremont Colleges. 5 surgeons, 6 lawyers, 8 scientists, 4 Politicians and 1 professional bloggers. I lost touch with the rest. My high school ranked last in the country. The inspiration comes from the teachers. When student feel worthy of themselves they strives for excellence even for the bottom feeder like me.



<a href="http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20">http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20</a>



That same years Mr Jaime from Garfield High in East LA started his math program and recognized for his achievement and Linda Purdy was in the shadow of Escalante. Several years later most of his students achieved the impossible from a ghetto HS by passing the AP Calculus exam.</blockquote>


This is the kind of measure of achievement that we miss by assigning a number to a school. I would venture to say that many schools that don't appear on someone's "Top This or That" list actually have more successful students when measured by achievements, careers and overall happiness. I've seen far too many burned out college students who peaked in high school with their AP exams and perfect or close to perfect SAT scores, many end up college drop out drug addicts. Like Graph said, so much of it is about parents.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1245151522]I've seen far too many burned out college students who peaked in high school with their AP exams and perfect or close to perfect SAT scores, many end up college drop out drug addicts.</blockquote>Really, while not all ended up with good grades in college and the ability to attend graduate school, all I know did at least graduate from college.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1245142355]Bad schools like the one that I went to had a amazing teacher like Linda purdy. All 32 of her students did finished college and became very involved citizens in society by living very productive life. I was at the bottom of her class. My class mate Arturo Vargas a graduate of Stanford was recently appointed to an important political position by President Obama. This was his article from 2001. 50% of her students attended Ivy League, Cal Tech, Stanford, Berkeley, and Claremont Colleges. 5 surgeons, 6 lawyers, 8 scientists, 4 Politicians and 1 professional bloggers. I lost touch with the rest. My high school ranked last in the country. The inspiration comes from the teachers. When student feel worthy of themselves they strives for excellence even for the bottom feeder like me.



<a href="http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20">http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20</a>



That same years Mr Jaime from Garfield High in East LA started his math program and recognized for his achievement and Linda Purdy was in the shadow of Escalante. Several years later most of his students achieved the impossible from a ghetto HS by passing the AP Calculus exam.</blockquote>


Wow, I actually learned something really important the other day while my girlfriend was watching "He's Just Not That Into You." BK, you are an exception; your situation is an EXCEPTION; it's not the RULE.



I always thought that high school kids would like to get A's. I always thought that they would expect to attend a 4 yr college after graduating high school. Personally, I earned mostly A's in high school, and I had no doubt I would go straight to college - as well as most of my peers.



But the facts are... only around 25% (if not, less) of high school grads go straight to a 4 yr college. Even at University High, it's only 50%.



The facts are, if you are a poor student attending an underperforming school, you're very unlikely to attend or graduate from college.

Whereas, if you are rich student attending a stellar school, you're most likely going to attend and graduate college.

Of course exceptions exist all the time on an individual level. I know many poor kids who grow up to be successful. But there are many more who fail to achieve.

If you are studying sociology and demographics, you would soon realize that environmental factors are very significant in a child's educational achievement.



No one is denying that good parenting can lead to successful students in bad neighborhoods. More often then not though, bad neighborhoods are breeding grounds for drugs, violence, crimes, and other high risk activities.
 
According to Wikipedia, the most accurate source on the web, in 2003, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_High_School_(Irvine,_California)#Student_body">62% of University High students entered four-year universities and colleges</a> and 95% went to some sort of college.



On a side note, there are very few notable alumni from such a prestigious school, unless you count Will Ferrel and Dita Von Teese (who I never heard of until I read this thread).
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1245151522]I've seen far too many burned out college students who peaked in high school with their AP exams and perfect or close to perfect SAT scores, many end up college drop out drug addicts.</blockquote>
Sorry to continue this derail...



tmare: I don't know exactly what you do but I would assume that this is anecdotal. I would think that the percentage is higher that most of these high school over-achievers actually did well in college also and graduated just fine.



And again... the chances of making it to college from a "good" school is still higher than from a "bad" school... super parents or not.



And I would think that if you are that super parent... you would want to put your child in a more nurturing environment if you could... ie... a school that was ranked and scored high.



Now back to Costa Mesa:



One thing people don't mention is aside from the housing, it does tend to have more questionable businesses too. Just take a gander at the ones up and down the 55/Newport.
 
IHO- I am a teacher and I have seen far more of what I speak than I would ever of imagined. But yes, of course it's anecdotal, I haven't done a study.



BTW, I just finished up another school year today. My student teacher (an man in his 50's) just attended his son's HS graduation from Northwood. He said his family moved to Irvine many years ago because of the schools. He said that he actually regrets it. His son has achieved mostly A's with a few B's and has scored in the 90th-95th percentile on all standardized tests but can't be convinced that he's anything except a "below average" student. He actually said that although the school is very good, his child's self-esteem is not. I guess it's really a personality thing, some kids thrive on competition and other kids have a lot of trouble. I'm sure he's going to be fine but I just thought that it was an interesting perspective that I've never heard.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1245372734]IHO- I am a teacher and I have seen far more of what I speak than I would ever of imagined. But yes, of course it's anecdotal, I haven't done a study.

</blockquote>
Thanks for the clarification, I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure.



In your opinion, since you have a better perspective than I do... is it important for parents to look at the scores and reputations of schools as part of the decision on where to live? I just feel it makes it easier for me to teach my kid the value of education if the atmosphere they are learning in enforces that. If they attend a school where a good number of the kids do not aspire to go to college or they are concerned about is popularity and who is hosting the next party, it makes my job that much harder.



Maybe graph will understand this, if I wanted my son to do well in basketball, wouldn't I send him to a school that has a strong basketball program? Or would I just send him to school that has a mediocre program and even if he's the all-star player on the team, compared to schools with better programs he's just a benchwarmer because he wasn't challenged to be better? As much as we value parental involvement, I don't think we should underestimate the power of the environment and of course the peer pressure... err... competitiveness.

<blockquote>

BTW, I just finished up another school year today. My student teacher (an man in his 50's) just attended his son's HS graduation from Northwood. He said his family moved to Irvine many years ago because of the schools. He said that he actually regrets it. His son has achieved mostly A's with a few B's and has scored in the 90th-95th percentile on all standardized tests but can't be convinced that he's anything except a "below average" student. He actually said that although the school is very good, his child's self-esteem is not. I guess it's really a personality thing, some kids thrive on competition and other kids have a lot of trouble. I'm sure he's going to be fine but I just thought that it was an interesting perspective that I've never heard.</blockquote>
So if he regrets it... where would he rather have his son have gone? Would a "lesser" school have helped with his son's self-esteem?



I find myself agreeing with hs_teacher... doesn't it make sense to side with the rule rather than the exception? (BTW: I saw "He's Not That Into You" also)
 
A lot of money and resources were spent on campus safety and security in ghetto schools while that same expenditure is put in to good use in Irvine and a part of Tustin schools. I believe a safe school environment allows both teachers and students to focus more on education.



The teachers are proud and have pride to be associated with a good school just like home owners for their branded neighborhoods. When teachers are proud they are motivated to inspire the students.



In the poor neighborhoods when both teachers and students knew their surrounding is ranked at the bottom of our society there is very little hope for them to try because the monumental effort would never propels them to extra ordinarily success. It is true from the ghettos the remarkable stories like Linda Purdy and Jaime Escalante are rare. Their students from the late 70's and 80's are some of the most productive citizens giving back to society today. It was certainly not an over night result but took 30 years later to realize the fruits of their labor they planted 30 years ago.



Several inner city Los Angeles schools were deliberately taken away from the LAUSD to participate in an experiment. The schools were turned over from bureaucracy to be managed by private sector with commercial experience. The same ghetto kids attending the transformed school began to experience a difference and developed self confidence and self esteem. Irvine has only one school in the top 600 while the new district has 6.



This was a landmark experiment.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1245374694]<blockquote>

BTW, I just finished up another school year today. My student teacher (an man in his 50's) just attended his son's HS graduation from Northwood. He said his family moved to Irvine many years ago because of the schools. He said that he actually regrets it. His son has achieved mostly A's with a few B's and has scored in the 90th-95th percentile on all standardized tests but can't be convinced that he's anything except a "below average" student. He actually said that although the school is very good, his child's self-esteem is not. I guess it's really a personality thing, some kids thrive on competition and other kids have a lot of trouble. I'm sure he's going to be fine but I just thought that it was an interesting perspective that I've never heard.</blockquote>
So if he regrets it... where would he rather have his son have gone? Would a "lesser" school have helped with his son's self-esteem?



I find myself agreeing with hs_teacher... doesn't it make sense to side with the rule rather than the exception? (BTW: I saw "He's Not That Into You" also)</blockquote>


that's indeed an odd story, although now that i think of it, i know more than a few people that grew up in these parts and have that exact same sense of self. i find this is not just a problem in terms of education, but their sense of their social economic status.



i hate to place blame on your colleague whom none of us know, but doesn't this sort of relate to the "Behind the Orange Curtain" thread? i would hate for my child to define their self-worth by the tiny limited bubble we find ourselves surrounded by. he could end up with severe self-esteem issues like this boy, or turn out to be a real cad. :-S
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1245374694][quote author="tmare" date=1245372734]IHO- I am a teacher and I have seen far more of what I speak than I would ever of imagined. But yes, of course it's anecdotal, I haven't done a study.

</blockquote>
Thanks for the clarification, I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure.



In your opinion, since you have a better perspective than I do... is it important for parents to look at the scores and reputations of schools as part of the decision on where to live? I just feel it makes it easier for me to teach my kid the value of education if the atmosphere they are learning in enforces that. If they attend a school where a good number of the kids do not aspire to go to college or they are concerned about is popularity and who is hosting the next party, it makes my job that much harder.



Maybe graph will understand this, if I wanted my son to do well in basketball, wouldn't I send him to a school that has a strong basketball program? Or would I just send him to school that has a mediocre program and even if he's the all-star player on the team, compared to schools with better programs he's just a benchwarmer because he wasn't challenged to be better? As much as we value parental involvement, I don't think we should underestimate the power of the environment and of course the peer pressure... err... competitiveness.

<blockquote>

BTW, I just finished up another school year today. My student teacher (an man in his 50's) just attended his son's HS graduation from Northwood. He said his family moved to Irvine many years ago because of the schools. He said that he actually regrets it. His son has achieved mostly A's with a few B's and has scored in the 90th-95th percentile on all standardized tests but can't be convinced that he's anything except a "below average" student. He actually said that although the school is very good, his child's self-esteem is not. I guess it's really a personality thing, some kids thrive on competition and other kids have a lot of trouble. I'm sure he's going to be fine but I just thought that it was an interesting perspective that I've never heard.</blockquote>
So if he regrets it... where would he rather have his son have gone? Would a "lesser" school have helped with his son's self-esteem?



I find myself agreeing with hs_teacher... doesn't it make sense to side with the rule rather than the exception? (BTW: I saw "He's Not That Into You" also)</blockquote>


Boy, has this thread been derailed. I think it belongs in the schools section. Anyway, I guess each parent has to answer these questions for themselves and their children. I am a firm believer that parenting makes the difference and when we choose schools we have to make allowances for individual children and their characteristics. I know that I see qualities in my children that are so incredibly different and I don't think they came from parenting. My son is so fiercely competitive and becomes so frustrated when he doesn't win yet my daughter could care a less. With that said, I also am not totally obsessive about the schools they will attend. He will not attend the horrible elementary school in our neighborhood for many of the reasons you cite, but he will attend a school with great diversity both ethnically, academically and socio-economically. I'm not very concerned about a school's overall score, I'm more concerned about the opportunities available in that school and if they suit the needs of my children (the school's scores are in the low 800's BTW, some minimum standards must apply, of course). I'm just not into the "bubble" thinking but I understand it. For my family we chose the things we thought were most important (bilingual/biliterate children, focus on arts/science) and chose a school based on those things. I could go on forever, I'm not really looking for anyone to agree or disagree with me because we all are doing what we think is best. To each his own.
 
<strong>Costa Mesa Wells Fargo bank robbed</strong>





<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note">http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note</a>
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again-for the most part, good kids make good schools, not the other way around. And good kids are made by good parents. That is, a child with parents who take an active interest in their child's education will do fine in a bad school (assuming physical violence isn't a problem). One way parents can take an active interest in their child's education is by moving to an area with a reputation with good schools, even if that area is overpriced otherwise (IE, Irvine). And, since all the good kids are now going to that school, viola, it's a good school. Saying a school is good makes the school good-it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1245142355]Bad schools like the one that I went to had a amazing teacher like Linda purdy. All 32 of her students did finished college and became very involved citizens in society by living very productive life. I was at the bottom of her class. My class mate Arturo Vargas a graduate of Stanford was recently appointed to an important political position by President Obama. This was his article from 2001. 50% of her students attended Ivy League, Cal Tech, Stanford, Berkeley, and Claremont Colleges. 5 surgeons, 6 lawyers, 8 scientists, 4 Politicians and 1 professional bloggers. I lost touch with the rest. My high school ranked last in the country. The inspiration comes from the teachers. When student feel worthy of themselves they strives for excellence even for the bottom feeder like me.



<a href="http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20">http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20</a>



That same years Mr Jaime from Garfield High in East LA started his math program and recognized for his achievement and Linda Purdy was in the shadow of Escalante. Several years later most of his students achieved the impossible from a ghetto HS by passing the AP Calculus exam.</blockquote>


I went to your crappy high school for 2 years. C track. When I went there were 5000 students there.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1247997469]<strong>Costa Mesa Wells Fargo bank robbed</strong>





<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note">http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note</a></blockquote>


What's your point Asian? When I lived in CDM the local B of A was robbed. If anyone is curious about crime in CM, just read the Daily Pilot and its police files.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1248214017][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1247997469]<strong>Costa Mesa Wells Fargo bank robbed</strong>





<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note">http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bank-police-costa-2498996-mesa-note</a></blockquote>


What's your point Asian? When I lived in CDM the local B of A was robbed. If anyone is curious about crime in CM, just read the Daily Pilot and its police files.</blockquote>


I think he was admitting his own criminal act. Times are tough for those in the homebuilding industry, if you have a job at all.
 
Costa Mesa is going to be an interesting place to watch in the next few decades. A large swath of the southwest part of the city is dominated by the Freedom Homes tract - consisting of 880 homes that were built in the early 1950s. They were originally 1034 sq. ft., 3 bdrm/1 bath with a carport and fairly large lot on nice wide streets. The city has been pretty progressive with regard to residential remodeling, recognizing that improving the housing stock will improve many other things. The City prepared remodeling plans for the most common Freedom Home remodels, so that someone can short-cut the whole planning and architectural process. They also had an incentive program which waived fees for remodels as well.



I just stumbled across this post, and will be glad to provide more information to anyone who is interested. Costa Mesa is a fantastic city that has massive potential, as well as some big problems. We also have a determined City Council and Planning Commission (for the most part) that wants to see Costa Mesa rise up to its proper place in the coastal OC hierarchy.
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1252120371]Costa Mesa is going to be an interesting place to watch in the next few decades. A large swath of the southwest part of the city is dominated by the Freedom Homes tract - consisting of 880 homes that were built in the early 1950s. They were originally 1034 sq. ft., 3 bdrm/1 bath with a carport and fairly large lot on nice wide streets. The city has been pretty progressive with regard to residential remodeling, recognizing that improving the housing stock will improve many other things. The City prepared remodeling plans for the most common Freedom Home remodels, so that someone can short-cut the whole planning and architectural process. They also had an incentive program which waived fees for remodels as well.



I just stumbled across this post, and will be glad to provide more information to anyone who is interested. Costa Mesa is a fantastic city that has massive potential, as well as some big problems. We also have a determined City Council and Planning Commission (for the most part) that wants to see Costa Mesa rise up to its proper place in the coastal OC hierarchy.</blockquote>
Having spent far too much of my youth in Costa Mesa (Pomona Elementary, Kaiser Middle School, and Estancia High) I don't share your enthusiasm. While not as bad as Santa Ana, Goat Hill has always been a semi-industrial backwater, providing the workers, servers, and support staff for Newport, CdM, and Irvine. Back in the 80's, the Freedom Homes tract was lower middle class at best and as kids we terrorized it in ways that would make Irvinites call for the National Guard. Having driven through there several times over the last decade, I can't say anything has gotten better except for the small section between the 55 and the Back Bay, and the Mesa Verde area. The City Council has been determined before and it resulted in that clusterf*ck at Newport and 19th. Until they are willing to bulldoze the industrial areas near the bluffs, and do some serious rezoning along the Placentia corridor, they are going to be stuck playing blue-collar worker to the surrounding white-collar & golfpants cities.
 
Nude,



You're right, but the difference now is the Council majority and Planning Commission. These are the folks (candidates, officeholders, supporters and successors) who finally got the overlay zone in place on the westside and pushed through the 19 West, Mesa West Bluffs and Mesa West Residential Ownership Urban Plans. These target the westside and promote revitalization. The RE downturn slowed down the process, but the opportunity exists - for the FIRST time since CM was incorporated, for real change on the westside.



As for the Freedom Homes, there are still a lot of dogs, but there are also many more that were remodeled during the free money bubble days. Drive through the neighborhoods south of Victoria, west of Placentia and north of 19th, and you'll see what I mean. The plans developed by the City provide a REAL incentive to remodel:http://www.ci.costa-mesa.ca.us/docs/planning/Freedom-Homes.pdf



It won't happen overnight, and I hope it doesn't happen before I can buy the house I want - but it will happen. Also, Banning Ranch and the 19th street bridge (still on OCTA's Master Plan of Arterial Highways), will bring much new life into the area.



Finally, not all industry is bad - Costa Mesa is home to many cutting edge companies, Volcom for instance, that CM should try to keep.
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1252120371]Costa Mesa is going to be an interesting place to watch in the next few decades. A large swath of the southwest part of the city is dominated by the Freedom Homes tract - consisting of 880 homes that were built in the early 1950s. They were originally 1034 sq. ft., 3 bdrm/1 bath with a carport and fairly large lot on nice wide streets. The city has been pretty progressive with regard to residential remodeling, recognizing that improving the housing stock will improve many other things. The City prepared remodeling plans for the most common Freedom Home remodels, so that someone can short-cut the whole planning and architectural process. They also had an incentive program which waived fees for remodels as well.



I just stumbled across this post, and will be glad to provide more information to anyone who is interested. Costa Mesa is a fantastic city that has massive potential, as well as some big problems. We also have a determined City Council and Planning Commission (for the most part) that wants to see Costa Mesa rise up to its proper place in the coastal OC hierarchy.</blockquote>


Well as someone who has been following this thread for a while, I'm glad that someone else has discovered this thread because for a while this thread was sitting pretty dormant. This is unfortunate because I was enjoying the posts in this thread discussing Costa Mesa which for whatever reason seems to not get nearly as much attention as other cities in Orange County. Maybe it doesn't get mentioned all that much because it has too many problems like Nude mentioned and its just not that desirable a place to live, but I can't help but hope what CM_Dude has to say is true because it really does seem like Costa Mesa is good location gone wrong. Despite that prognosis by many I still hope to live there someday cause I love Newport Beach but the only way I could possibly afford anything close it it would be to live in Costa Mesa. Speaking of which anyone know any nice apartment/condo/townhouse or SFR that can be rented for under $2000 and is at least 2br1bath with W/D hookups. I am looking to move to California next year and have found places listed online in Costa Mesa that seem to fit this description but I don't know if I will be putting my wife and I in the ghetto or not; not really knowing enough about the neighborhoods.



Thanks in advance to anyone that stumbles across this post and happens to have any good advice for a place to live.
 
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