irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
So tell me... are you blaming everyone or just some people... because this did start under your guy's watch.
coronavirus
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Operation Warp Speed?
But you don't listen/read/understand... you still think the elections were rigged and that Jan 6 was not insurrection... so why am I not surprised?
If you take the anti-politics lean out of our arguments... you may have better traction. Just remember that most of 2020 was under who?
In 2020, the mainstream media definitely pushed a narrative where you would be ostracized and labeled a conspiracy theorist if you believed it was a lab leak.
2. Neither alcohol nor cannabis is infectious, so that's an EXTREMELY disingenuous comparison. And we're not talking about treatment here. The same people who claim that they don't trust doctors over the vaccine are rushing to the hospital right away after they've contracted COVID-19. If they didn't trust doctors over vaccine, then don't go to doctors. I don't mind if they stayed home and used Ivermectin AFTER they've contracted COVID-19. Instead, they rushed to the hospital AND infected others.
For anyone who thinks we should not have tried to lock down and quarantine, you must not know any nurses or doctors or hospital staff who worked the front lines of Covid... nor know anyone close to you who fell victim to the disease.
Remember my cousin who died and left her young daughter without any parents. She had to move in with her uncle who lives halfway across the country and is not the nicest guy and (he's my cousin too so I can comment on that) and we just found out she attempted suicide. There are many more people who have had similar tragedies due to Covid and it would have been much worse so I don't agree we should not have tried what we could to limit it.
As for the trajectory of the economy... who knows what would have happened. In fact, maybe Trump is still president and we are in a war with China... infinite outcomes for the multiverse.
July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Jan 22, 2020: Trump tweeted, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Feb 7, 2020: “It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private interview with Bob Woodward from The Washington Post made public on Sept. 9, 2020]
Feb 10, 2020: More tweets from Trump, “I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.” and “Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
Feb 24, 2020: Trump tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… the Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
Are you really saying that Fauci, CDC, etc., were advising Trump that COVID-19 is like a flu and it's just going to be fine? It's just going away? Based on the private interview with Bob Woodward, Trump knew that COVID-19 was serious. What action did he take? He kept saying that it's a nothingburger and it will just away. All he cared about was the stock market, and a national lockdown would hurt it, so he was not doing anything like that.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Yeah... sorry... your slant is apparent. Revisionist history here.. you conveniently forget that policies were pretty draconian under both administrations... so you can blame whatever groups but can't say it's just one president or the other.
Operation Warp Speed?
morekaos
Well-known member
But while some of us were pointing out the stupidity of most of this list...Biden fear police and "scientists" were stoking blind obedience and stifling other opinions that in the end... proved to be true. I understand there is some comfort in conformity and being a sheeple but I just don't trust them...rightfully so.
"Funny how all the “conspiracy theories” are being proven true….masks ineffectiveness, lockdowns impotence, school closures damages, children’s low risk of infection, vaccine ineffectiveness, vaccines negative side effects, vaccine manufacturer’s collusion and corruption, alternate treatments effectiveness, ventilator shortages, the miracle of sweet sweet natural immunity, and now lab origin is confirmed…aren’t you a bit tired of defending all the lies?..."
"Funny how all the “conspiracy theories” are being proven true….masks ineffectiveness, lockdowns impotence, school closures damages, children’s low risk of infection, vaccine ineffectiveness, vaccines negative side effects, vaccine manufacturer’s collusion and corruption, alternate treatments effectiveness, ventilator shortages, the miracle of sweet sweet natural immunity, and now lab origin is confirmed…aren’t you a bit tired of defending all the lies?..."
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
None of these have been proven either way depending on who you listen to.
But you don't listen/read/understand... you still think the elections were rigged and that Jan 6 was not insurrection... so why am I not surprised?
If you take the anti-politics lean out of our arguments... you may have better traction. Just remember that most of 2020 was under who?
I don’t know the history of your stance on this topic.
In 2020, the mainstream media definitely pushed a narrative where you would be ostracized and labeled a conspiracy theorist if you believed it was a lab leak.
sgip
Well-known member
I'm not forgiving any Administration here, but it's been decades since a serious pandemic in the 1st World had occurred and overreactions are in some respects "normal". Trump's direction was given to him by advisors - some with highly vested interests - and down the road we went as a nation. We now have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to review history - not revise it - and yes, it doesn't look well for either Administration.
The issue to me isn't this present nonsense. The horse is well out of the Barn, and proven liability for the pandemic will never see the light of justice. Just like the 2006-2011 Great Recession, we never did see any of the main players of the catastrophe do a perp walk, did we? The problem is how hysterical the debate has been with one side refusing to consider beneficial natural immunity, the harm that masking and Social Distancing has done to a generation, and the firing/de-platforming/even bankrupting countless American's because essentially the media went all "Orange Man Bad" from day 1. COVID-19 was a hard flu at best, and with co-morbidities a very dangerous disease to get. If you dared to disagree with what we know today as fact, your a MAGA lunatic. Disagreeing with the narrative meant double masked fringe types shrieking at your place of work, church, or neighborhood trying to force you to conform OR ELSE. When you hear vintage 2020-2021 recordings of "experts" who talk about "settled science" and "no debate about it" they sound like political tools, not medical scientists as each and every "conspiracy theory" is being proven correct. The media should - but won't - be ignored from this point forward as they have become the primary purveyor as well as the self appointed judge of what is and isn't misinformation.
P.S. I'm not wading in on the Ivermectin / alternative medicine debate either. If someone wants to ingest this stuff for reasons of their own making, IDK. It's just like using Alcohol of Cannabis - if you're OK with those, you must remain consistent and be OK with how others wish to treat COVID-19 in their own way.
My .02c
The issue to me isn't this present nonsense. The horse is well out of the Barn, and proven liability for the pandemic will never see the light of justice. Just like the 2006-2011 Great Recession, we never did see any of the main players of the catastrophe do a perp walk, did we? The problem is how hysterical the debate has been with one side refusing to consider beneficial natural immunity, the harm that masking and Social Distancing has done to a generation, and the firing/de-platforming/even bankrupting countless American's because essentially the media went all "Orange Man Bad" from day 1. COVID-19 was a hard flu at best, and with co-morbidities a very dangerous disease to get. If you dared to disagree with what we know today as fact, your a MAGA lunatic. Disagreeing with the narrative meant double masked fringe types shrieking at your place of work, church, or neighborhood trying to force you to conform OR ELSE. When you hear vintage 2020-2021 recordings of "experts" who talk about "settled science" and "no debate about it" they sound like political tools, not medical scientists as each and every "conspiracy theory" is being proven correct. The media should - but won't - be ignored from this point forward as they have become the primary purveyor as well as the self appointed judge of what is and isn't misinformation.
P.S. I'm not wading in on the Ivermectin / alternative medicine debate either. If someone wants to ingest this stuff for reasons of their own making, IDK. It's just like using Alcohol of Cannabis - if you're OK with those, you must remain consistent and be OK with how others wish to treat COVID-19 in their own way.
My .02c
CalBears96
Well-known member
1. I find it laughable that you think Trump actually listened to any of his advisors.
2. Neither alcohol nor cannabis is infectious, so that's an EXTREMELY disingenuous comparison. And we're not talking about treatment here. The same people who claim that they don't trust doctors over the vaccine are rushing to the hospital right away after they've contracted COVID-19. If they didn't trust doctors over vaccine, then don't go to doctors. I don't mind if they stayed home and used Ivermectin AFTER they've contracted COVID-19. Instead, they rushed to the hospital AND infected others.
qwerty
Well-known member
If the country had a chance to vote on the following with the benefit of hindsight:
1) no lockdowns and let people continue to work and live normal lives, essentially treat it like the cold/flu
Or
2) let an incremental 3-5 million people die from Covid or over-run medical system (however you want to frame the deaths)
I think given the financial impact (devastation to millions of business owners and regular wage workers) and related inflationary pressures that resulted from all of the government free money, I think lost people would choose option 2
1) no lockdowns and let people continue to work and live normal lives, essentially treat it like the cold/flu
Or
2) let an incremental 3-5 million people die from Covid or over-run medical system (however you want to frame the deaths)
I think given the financial impact (devastation to millions of business owners and regular wage workers) and related inflationary pressures that resulted from all of the government free money, I think lost people would choose option 2
sgip
Well-known member
@CalBears
1) Every Executive action taken in 2019-2020 was by Trump and Trump alone, not steered by advice provided by Fauch, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, WHO, etc? Source please.
2) Having extensive (and deeply regrettable) first hand experience with both substances, I still support absolute freedom of choice and thus stand by the analogy as true.
1) Every Executive action taken in 2019-2020 was by Trump and Trump alone, not steered by advice provided by Fauch, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, WHO, etc? Source please.
2) Having extensive (and deeply regrettable) first hand experience with both substances, I still support absolute freedom of choice and thus stand by the analogy as true.
The deception and suppression by NIH and a compliant media, and then the Biden admin, will be the biggest scandal of the last century. Remember when Trump was vilified for proposing a China travel ban? miss that guy and his policies so much...
morekaos
Well-known member
The thing is back when we were challenging all these point they were presented as settled science. Now, with time, hindsight, less panic and some solid data the narrative has shifted and the “conspiracy theories” are turning out to be true. But some of us knew this all along.
morekaos
Well-known member
Well Lancet sure has turned around on the topic of sweet, sweet natural immunity. That settled science enough for ya?….who was saying that two years ago?… hmmm, let me think
Three Years Late, the Lancet Recognizes Natural Immunity
Lancet has reported that natural immunity is just as effective as two doses of the Moderna or Pfizer shots in preventing both reinfection and serious illness from COVID-19.
The findings, which were published in the February edition of the prestigious medical journal, were based on a review of 65 separate studies from 19 different countries.
…available data suggests that the level of protection afforded by previous infection is at least as high, if not higher than that provided by two-dose vaccination using high-quality mRNA vaccines,” the report declared.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-...tion-tech-censor-antibodies-mandates-b3ba912c
Three Years Late, the Lancet Recognizes Natural Immunity
Lancet has reported that natural immunity is just as effective as two doses of the Moderna or Pfizer shots in preventing both reinfection and serious illness from COVID-19.
The findings, which were published in the February edition of the prestigious medical journal, were based on a review of 65 separate studies from 19 different countries.
…available data suggests that the level of protection afforded by previous infection is at least as high, if not higher than that provided by two-dose vaccination using high-quality mRNA vaccines,” the report declared.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-...tion-tech-censor-antibodies-mandates-b3ba912c
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I quoted my post above... it was April 2020 when I posted about the theories about it not being from the market because there wasn't an initial breakout that seemed to source from there but more near the lab (I forgot the specifics but my post has the link to the article about it). What was ostracized was that it was purposely released... but the origins from a lab was an acceptable theory. I could go full tinfoil hat and say China was getting vengeance for Trump policies.
For anyone who thinks we should not have tried to lock down and quarantine, you must not know any nurses or doctors or hospital staff who worked the front lines of Covid... nor know anyone close to you who fell victim to the disease.
Remember my cousin who died and left her young daughter without any parents. She had to move in with her uncle who lives halfway across the country and is not the nicest guy and (he's my cousin too so I can comment on that) and we just found out she attempted suicide. There are many more people who have had similar tragedies due to Covid and it would have been much worse so I don't agree we should not have tried what we could to limit it.
As for the trajectory of the economy... who knows what would have happened. In fact, maybe Trump is still president and we are in a war with China... infinite outcomes for the multiverse.
CalBears96
Well-known member
Remember Trump's responses to COVID-19? This is why I can't take you seriously.
CalBears96
Well-known member
May 2018: The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Jan 22, 2020: Trump tweeted, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Feb 7, 2020: “It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private interview with Bob Woodward from The Washington Post made public on Sept. 9, 2020]
Feb 10, 2020: More tweets from Trump, “I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.” and “Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
Feb 24, 2020: Trump tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… the Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
Are you really saying that Fauci, CDC, etc., were advising Trump that COVID-19 is like a flu and it's just going to be fine? It's just going away? Based on the private interview with Bob Woodward, Trump knew that COVID-19 was serious. What action did he take? He kept saying that it's a nothingburger and it will just away. All he cared about was the stock market, and a national lockdown would hurt it, so he was not doing anything like that.
The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
To be fair the lockdown or the lack thereof is more a state decision. CA is among the first to lockdown and the last to come out…
sgip
Well-known member
@CalBears96
Random tweets and interview snips are not policy. They are expressions and nothing more. I'll have one to review in a moment.
Examples?
May 2018: The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
Fact Checked by the hyper MAGA news outlet USAToday: https://www.kff.org/news-summary/us...im-trump-fired-entire-nsc-global-health-unit/
July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Article by the Far Right news outlet Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5
Money Quote:
Some health experts were skeptical that more CDC employees operating inside China would have made a difference in stemming the outbreak. Beijing has been widely criticized for silencing its own public health officials who warned of a deadly new respiratory disease emanating from the Chinese city of Wuhan and surrounding Hubei province.
“The problem was China, not that we didn’t have CDC people in China,” said Scott McNabb, a former CDC epidemiologist who is now a research professor with Emory University. He pointed to China’s censorship as the main culprit in the spread of the pandemic, which has infected at least 435,470 people worldwide, killed 19,598 and upended the global economy.
Here's a random quote that could easily be spun out of context- "Trump downplaying the COVID-19 severity"
March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)
Just by doing the math alone, assuming a very low testing percentage of 15% of the global population - 7.5B x 15% = 1.13b x 3.4% death rate is 38M. Total Deaths Pandemic to present is 6.8m. My math seems to indicate that the real death rate (in this testing scenario) is about .06% not 3.4%. Source: Our World In Data, google "Global COVID Deaths" 02/28/2023
This is in no way to minimize the severity or death rate for COVID-19, but to demonstrate the hyperbolic response to quotes, tweets, statements, versus actions taken during the Pandemic
Leaders are supposed to inform, but also calm their constituents in times of what was then an unknown, unclear disease. Had any President said what was being pushed out by "medical experts" - mostly paid talking heads on cable news outlets - far, far greater reactions could have taken place - mass firings for being unvaccinated which by no means is a conspiracy theory but actual fact. Many displaced unvaccinated workers are finally regaining their pay, benefits, and employment now through the legal process, but at what cost to them? Should we continue to mask toddlers because of a disease impacting so few relative to other diseases? Some in the extreme would insist. Cooler heads will look at the facts.
Was the response 100% perfect? I've said earlier, there were mistakes during the previous administration. People make them all the time. Here on Planet Reality, we have to allow for them, and contextualize. If there was genuine malfeasance or intent to harm, then justice must be served. For example: as verified data shows, Fauchi's is complicit in gain of function research done overseas using United States funding. When I see The Fauch perp walked, then of course we must take the blame further up the food chain and get everyone involved in an orange jump suit.
My .02c
Random tweets and interview snips are not policy. They are expressions and nothing more. I'll have one to review in a moment.
Examples?
May 2018: The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
Fact Checked by the hyper MAGA news outlet USAToday: https://www.kff.org/news-summary/us...im-trump-fired-entire-nsc-global-health-unit/
July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Article by the Far Right news outlet Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5
Money Quote:
Some health experts were skeptical that more CDC employees operating inside China would have made a difference in stemming the outbreak. Beijing has been widely criticized for silencing its own public health officials who warned of a deadly new respiratory disease emanating from the Chinese city of Wuhan and surrounding Hubei province.
“The problem was China, not that we didn’t have CDC people in China,” said Scott McNabb, a former CDC epidemiologist who is now a research professor with Emory University. He pointed to China’s censorship as the main culprit in the spread of the pandemic, which has infected at least 435,470 people worldwide, killed 19,598 and upended the global economy.
Here's a random quote that could easily be spun out of context- "Trump downplaying the COVID-19 severity"
March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)
Just by doing the math alone, assuming a very low testing percentage of 15% of the global population - 7.5B x 15% = 1.13b x 3.4% death rate is 38M. Total Deaths Pandemic to present is 6.8m. My math seems to indicate that the real death rate (in this testing scenario) is about .06% not 3.4%. Source: Our World In Data, google "Global COVID Deaths" 02/28/2023
This is in no way to minimize the severity or death rate for COVID-19, but to demonstrate the hyperbolic response to quotes, tweets, statements, versus actions taken during the Pandemic
Leaders are supposed to inform, but also calm their constituents in times of what was then an unknown, unclear disease. Had any President said what was being pushed out by "medical experts" - mostly paid talking heads on cable news outlets - far, far greater reactions could have taken place - mass firings for being unvaccinated which by no means is a conspiracy theory but actual fact. Many displaced unvaccinated workers are finally regaining their pay, benefits, and employment now through the legal process, but at what cost to them? Should we continue to mask toddlers because of a disease impacting so few relative to other diseases? Some in the extreme would insist. Cooler heads will look at the facts.
Was the response 100% perfect? I've said earlier, there were mistakes during the previous administration. People make them all the time. Here on Planet Reality, we have to allow for them, and contextualize. If there was genuine malfeasance or intent to harm, then justice must be served. For example: as verified data shows, Fauchi's is complicit in gain of function research done overseas using United States funding. When I see The Fauch perp walked, then of course we must take the blame further up the food chain and get everyone involved in an orange jump suit.
My .02c
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