Loco_local
Active member
Soylent Green Is People said:
The food bank lines surprised me. People were lining up after the second week of the shutdown.
Coronavirus Recession
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The food bank lines surprised me. People were lining up after the second week of the shutdown.
The airlines asked for their bailout before any State issued a shutdown. The 15-20% unemployment is currently largely focused in those industry segments: travel, hospitality, restaurants, retail, entertainment and the outlier, construction.
Restaurant business was noticeably down early March before shutdown. When the shelter order went out for the Bay Area before going Statewide the restaurants turned into ghost towns. Hospitality, retail, all started to take it on the chin before the orders. Much of that segment lives paycheck to paycheck and more importantly, depend on their weekly tips. That all started vaporizing beginning of March.
By mid-March, store shelves of less-perishable items were stripped bare. Milk was out of stock, canned goods gone, meat products sometimes stocked, sometimes empty. The majority went from eating 30-90% of their meals out to making something at home.
This is why the mantra that the lockdown is self inflicted carnage is false. The virus had the carnage well under way before the lockdowns. The absence of leadership, clear action and meaningful plans to address it further eroded consumer confidence in their ability to be out consuming.
Wow, I feel sorry for all the crew that are stuck on the ships.
Here's the other sad part, the vast majority of the people that lost their jobs are low/lower paying no college degree folks and I'd venture to bet that many of those jobs aren't coming back. They mentioned on CNBC that the unemployment rate for college graduated folks is around 8% now while being well over 20% for non-college educated folks. This recession will further separate the haves and the have-nots.
Yes, I should start a change.org or gofundme for a Souplantation bailout. Chicken noodle soup was good but my favorite was just a big plate of salad and sides with ranch dressing, cheese, and seasoned croutons... I'm sure it's unhealthy but yunno, psychologically it made me feel a bit better.
I loaded up on Gift Cards and meal passes during their black friday and Christmas promotions. Good thing I used all those up in Jan/Feb... now all they're good for is a bookmark.
I?ll say it again, if you are going to die from contracting the virus you are going to to die when you get it, it?s just a matter of whether it?s today, tomorrow, next week or next month. Unless there is a treatment or vaccine you may as well stay home until then. The virus isn?t going away.
So what are you stay at home people suggesting? Do you want limited openings? No openings? You are welcome to stay home or go out to whatever place based on your risk tolerance? Not sure what the opposition to fully opening is.
Why do you keep saying this as it's fact? You know that more lives are saved when you have more resources. Areas where infected is higher than capacity has more deaths.
That's not the question. The question is... what if we didn't shelter in or lockdown and everyone went to work and all stores/restaurants were open and public gatherings were not restricted?
Do you think the economy would have just kept going?
The food bank lines surprised me. People were lining up after the second week of the shutdown.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Loco_local said:
The airlines asked for their bailout before any State issued a shutdown. The 15-20% unemployment is currently largely focused in those industry segments: travel, hospitality, restaurants, retail, entertainment and the outlier, construction.
Restaurant business was noticeably down early March before shutdown. When the shelter order went out for the Bay Area before going Statewide the restaurants turned into ghost towns. Hospitality, retail, all started to take it on the chin before the orders. Much of that segment lives paycheck to paycheck and more importantly, depend on their weekly tips. That all started vaporizing beginning of March.
By mid-March, store shelves of less-perishable items were stripped bare. Milk was out of stock, canned goods gone, meat products sometimes stocked, sometimes empty. The majority went from eating 30-90% of their meals out to making something at home.
This is why the mantra that the lockdown is self inflicted carnage is false. The virus had the carnage well under way before the lockdowns. The absence of leadership, clear action and meaningful plans to address it further eroded consumer confidence in their ability to be out consuming.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Soylent Green Is People said:
Wow, I feel sorry for all the crew that are stuck on the ships.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
nosuchreality said:
Here's the other sad part, the vast majority of the people that lost their jobs are low/lower paying no college degree folks and I'd venture to bet that many of those jobs aren't coming back. They mentioned on CNBC that the unemployment rate for college graduated folks is around 8% now while being well over 20% for non-college educated folks. This recession will further separate the haves and the have-nots.
zubs
Well-known member
Would you be all in for a bailout of souplantation? so you can keep your sweet sweet chicken noodle soup.
The final restaurant I went to before all this virus business was only 40% full on MAR 14, SAT night. I had gone there a month ago, and it had a 1 hour wait.
I think CA should re-open and let the people decide how dangerous they wanna live their lives. However, masks should be required in public....but how do you eat and drink with a mask on???
The final restaurant I went to before all this virus business was only 40% full on MAR 14, SAT night. I had gone there a month ago, and it had a 1 hour wait.
I think CA should re-open and let the people decide how dangerous they wanna live their lives. However, masks should be required in public....but how do you eat and drink with a mask on???
aquabliss
Well-known member
zubs said:
Yes, I should start a change.org or gofundme for a Souplantation bailout. Chicken noodle soup was good but my favorite was just a big plate of salad and sides with ranch dressing, cheese, and seasoned croutons... I'm sure it's unhealthy but yunno, psychologically it made me feel a bit better.
I loaded up on Gift Cards and meal passes during their black friday and Christmas promotions. Good thing I used all those up in Jan/Feb... now all they're good for is a bookmark.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@iacrenter: Obviously that's not an Irvine picture. The straw/mask hole would be a bigger diameter to allow for boba. 
morekaos
Well-known member
Here it comes...the open, open, open!!! Pile on has begun...boeing, Tesla, Starbucks ...now..
Apple to reopen stores in US starting next week
Apple will reopen stores in Idaho, South Carolina, Alabama and Alaska starting next week.
The stores will have temperature checks and will only permit a limited number of people in the store at one time.
Apple?s stores outside of China have been closed since the middle of March.
Apple to reopen stores in US starting next week
Apple will reopen stores in Idaho, South Carolina, Alabama and Alaska starting next week.
The stores will have temperature checks and will only permit a limited number of people in the store at one time.
Apple?s stores outside of China have been closed since the middle of March.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Looks like gun-toting Michigan already sells boba sized drink thru masks:
https://drinkthrumask.com/
Sold out though.
https://drinkthrumask.com/
Sold out though.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I think someone already mentioned this but for all you anti-lockdown proponents, what do you think what have happened if we didn?t shelter in and Covid spread more widely?
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Looks like the prisons are putting a damper on Santa Barbara making trend targets to reopen.
Lompoc prison has 70% of inmates testing positive. No worries folks, it'll just kill those geriatric geezers and save us money. /sarcasm.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-09/coronavirus-cases-lompoc-federal-prison-inmates
Lompoc prison has 70% of inmates testing positive. No worries folks, it'll just kill those geriatric geezers and save us money. /sarcasm.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-09/coronavirus-cases-lompoc-federal-prison-inmates
qwerty
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
I?ll say it again, if you are going to die from contracting the virus you are going to to die when you get it, it?s just a matter of whether it?s today, tomorrow, next week or next month. Unless there is a treatment or vaccine you may as well stay home until then. The virus isn?t going away.
So what are you stay at home people suggesting? Do you want limited openings? No openings? You are welcome to stay home or go out to whatever place based on your risk tolerance? Not sure what the opposition to fully opening is.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
qwerty said:
Why do you keep saying this as it's fact? You know that more lives are saved when you have more resources. Areas where infected is higher than capacity has more deaths.
That's not the question. The question is... what if we didn't shelter in or lockdown and everyone went to work and all stores/restaurants were open and public gatherings were not restricted?
Do you think the economy would have just kept going?
qwerty
Well-known member
I think the economy would have been at least 80% of what it was, if not better. If we didn?t force people through shelter at home orders by governments. Once they shut it down it was game over.
People would have just continued going to work because that is what was normal/expected. Would you have stopped going to work? I would not have.
So companies would have just kept operating, they may have offered to work at home if you weren?t comfortable.
Everyone is ok sheltering at home as long as the grocery stores/Walmart/amazon/target, etc stay open and continue to allow everyone to eat and wait patiently at home.
So you expect others to go to work to keep you and your family comfortable while you stay at home?
The government was selectively choosing whose lives they were willing to put risk. Isn?t that what you guys complain about? How we value money more than lives? Meanwhile the government is doing just that with no complaints about the lives of those frontline workers. In return for them risking themselves, they get hailed as hero?s, doesn?t seem like a fair exchange.
Why don?t we treat everyone equally and just shut everything down??
People would have just continued going to work because that is what was normal/expected. Would you have stopped going to work? I would not have.
So companies would have just kept operating, they may have offered to work at home if you weren?t comfortable.
Everyone is ok sheltering at home as long as the grocery stores/Walmart/amazon/target, etc stay open and continue to allow everyone to eat and wait patiently at home.
So you expect others to go to work to keep you and your family comfortable while you stay at home?
The government was selectively choosing whose lives they were willing to put risk. Isn?t that what you guys complain about? How we value money more than lives? Meanwhile the government is doing just that with no complaints about the lives of those frontline workers. In return for them risking themselves, they get hailed as hero?s, doesn?t seem like a fair exchange.
Why don?t we treat everyone equally and just shut everything down??
qwerty
Well-known member
The businesses that remained open the ENTIRE time during this pandemic have adapted just fine. Why would you assume the other business would not have?
When we go back to the office there will probably be plexiglass everywhere, swing doors, mask and glove dispensers, etc.
We already had touchless bathrooms
When we go back to the office there will probably be plexiglass everywhere, swing doors, mask and glove dispensers, etc.
We already had touchless bathrooms
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
You are leaving out key elements here.
More people would have got sick and people would choose not to go out on their own... economy would have slowed shut down either due to illness, safety or fear. Less people would be shopping and then on top of that, hospitals would be maxed out.
There would be a similar number of people who voluntarily would shelter in but more would be sick... especially because there will always be a contingent who wouldn't observe simple safety measures like wearing a mask (ahem) or observing social distance.
As I said... there is no win-win scenario here... you either make people stay home and anger all the liberate economists or let people do what they want and get everyone sick and more people dead and the economy would still falter.
You can't tell me for a fact that allowing Covid to spread freely would have kept the economy at 80%... even before we had mandated stay at home, the Dow was already nosediving.
More people would have got sick and people would choose not to go out on their own... economy would have slowed shut down either due to illness, safety or fear. Less people would be shopping and then on top of that, hospitals would be maxed out.
There would be a similar number of people who voluntarily would shelter in but more would be sick... especially because there will always be a contingent who wouldn't observe simple safety measures like wearing a mask (ahem) or observing social distance.
As I said... there is no win-win scenario here... you either make people stay home and anger all the liberate economists or let people do what they want and get everyone sick and more people dead and the economy would still falter.
You can't tell me for a fact that allowing Covid to spread freely would have kept the economy at 80%... even before we had mandated stay at home, the Dow was already nosediving.
qwerty
Well-known member
I was not stating the 80% as fact. That?s just my guess.
Are you saying that everyone staying home is doing so voluntarily? People like myself are staying home because my company sent us home because of the stay at home orders. It wasn?t voluntary.
You are using the viewpoint of peoples behavior post lockdown and assuming that would have been people?s viewpoint absent stay at home orders from governments. Once the government shut it down, it put into people?s heads that this was some crazy shit we were dealing with when it?s not that crazy at all. The overreaction is what was crazy
The fact of the matter is that the virus was hear probably since December and as it spread in January and February there was no overwhelming of hospitals and the economy was doing just fine. The dow hit a record high in February.
Once the fear factor was set into motion by the government and the media it became a mess.
If the governments response would have been social distancing, masks etc from day one this mess would likely have been avoided. Well, probably not in it?s entirety, which is why I said 80% earlier.
It was the reaction from the governments that got the ball rolling. As dr clapper on ESPN radio says, the eyes can?t see what the mind doesn?t know. The government shutdown put the fear factor into people?s minds.
Are you saying that everyone staying home is doing so voluntarily? People like myself are staying home because my company sent us home because of the stay at home orders. It wasn?t voluntary.
You are using the viewpoint of peoples behavior post lockdown and assuming that would have been people?s viewpoint absent stay at home orders from governments. Once the government shut it down, it put into people?s heads that this was some crazy shit we were dealing with when it?s not that crazy at all. The overreaction is what was crazy
The fact of the matter is that the virus was hear probably since December and as it spread in January and February there was no overwhelming of hospitals and the economy was doing just fine. The dow hit a record high in February.
Once the fear factor was set into motion by the government and the media it became a mess.
If the governments response would have been social distancing, masks etc from day one this mess would likely have been avoided. Well, probably not in it?s entirety, which is why I said 80% earlier.
It was the reaction from the governments that got the ball rolling. As dr clapper on ESPN radio says, the eyes can?t see what the mind doesn?t know. The government shutdown put the fear factor into people?s minds.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Actually I am using examples of other countries where they didn?t impose a mandatory lockdown and their economy still suffered. People there stayed home voluntarily.
You may need to recheck your timelines. I believe the US stay at home started from mid March and the Dow was well on its way down prior to that.
Let?s use your hot tub time machine and say the schools didn?t close and no mandatory stay at home orders were issued... you actually think the economy would function at 80% when instead of almost 3000 dying by end of March it would be closer to 10000?
That same fear you talk about would not have been from government mandates... it would have been from seeing our hospitals overrun like what was happening in NY.
I?d rather see a down economy with more people alive than a down economy with more people dead because they won?t be going out shopping ever again.
And as I said, no-win, because if we didn?t lock down everyone would be screaming that we should have. Even with the current 80k deaths people say we didn?t act early enough or didn?t do more.
So which flu killed 80k people in 3 months? Do you really think if that number was 100-150k the economy would be fine?
You may need to recheck your timelines. I believe the US stay at home started from mid March and the Dow was well on its way down prior to that.
Let?s use your hot tub time machine and say the schools didn?t close and no mandatory stay at home orders were issued... you actually think the economy would function at 80% when instead of almost 3000 dying by end of March it would be closer to 10000?
That same fear you talk about would not have been from government mandates... it would have been from seeing our hospitals overrun like what was happening in NY.
I?d rather see a down economy with more people alive than a down economy with more people dead because they won?t be going out shopping ever again.
And as I said, no-win, because if we didn?t lock down everyone would be screaming that we should have. Even with the current 80k deaths people say we didn?t act early enough or didn?t do more.
So which flu killed 80k people in 3 months? Do you really think if that number was 100-150k the economy would be fine?