Contamination under Irvine

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[quote author="Geotpf" date=1239232550][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1239154427]Have you ever noticed how big the Tustin hangers are? El Toro is 10 times the size of Tustin, but the hangers at Tustin are bigger than any hangers at El Toro. Does that make any sense? You must see it in context. I have heard that someone has seen planes enter the hangers at El Toro, and disappear a short time later! Well, look at a map and follow the train tracks from el toro to tustin. I have a feeling there is some underground railroad connecting tustin and el toro, because back during the pearl harbor years, they couldnt risk leaving planes in mere hangers. This may be the reason the plume is headed the direction it is, but then again, it could just be underground elevations of groundwater.



James Irvine was only convinced to open el toro after commanders told him the japanese would take over his land. El toro was the MOST FERTILE LAND in So Cal when is was taken in the 50's, and one concern of the family was this exact situation - contamination! What an irony, huh? O, and Myford Irvine was murdered a short time later after this all happened, and it was found to be a "suicide." I wish I could speak to Myford and see how one could shot himself twice in the stomach and once in the head with a different caliber bullet, because that is what I call an epic suicide.</blockquote>


Back away from the tinfoil. I bet you think Jewish bankers blew up the World Trade Center as well.</blockquote>


What would they have to gain from it? It was clearly the Muslim extremists who enjoy navigating the great outdoors and the fine granite countertops in their caves.
 
[quote author="LoudRoar" date=1239154427]

Have you ever noticed how big the Tustin hangers are? El Toro is 10 times the size of Tustin, but the hangers at Tustin are bigger than any hangers at El Toro. Does that make any sense? </blockquote>


Ummmm...well, that would be because the El Toro hangars were built to house airplanes, while the Tustin hangars were built to house blimps...and blimps are larger than airplanes.







<a href="http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html">http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html</a>
 
<blockquote>Even hoag hospital said irvine has a high rate of breast cancers; breast cancer just so happens to be one of the things tce causes.</blockquote>


What a crock.... I call a lie. <strong> No sourcing. </strong> A hospital, particularly Hoag, does not just "release a statement" like this. A hospital provides beds, nurses, and some equipment. Maybe some ER/hospitalist MD staff. What <u>doctor group</u> said this? What was the context? what statistical data were they relying on? Are you just (typical for paranoia-mongers) regurgitating dribble that you heard on another panic thread in some other forum?



Even if this were properly sourced, the frequency of residents in Irvine, vs other areas in the country, seeking REGULAR routine medical examinations and scheduled screenings is much higher (see data re medical diligence vs household income). I bet a lot more more problems are diagnosed vs going on unnoticed in other areas.



And my $0.02, its not much of a coverup if you're citing the OC Register. Even then, some links for reading might help your credibility with respect to the level of doom and gloom you are trying so hard to project. I think you just want prices to drop so you can buy in at $200 sqf. =P
 
I think it's irresponsible to make a statement regarding "the high level of cancers in irvine" without having any kind of scientific data to back it up. I'm not saying that it isn't true, but I would like to see some numbers.
 
[quote author="Strom" date=1239448229][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1239154427]

Have you ever noticed how big the Tustin hangers are? El Toro is 10 times the size of Tustin, but the hangers at Tustin are bigger than any hangers at El Toro. Does that make any sense? </blockquote>


Ummmm...well, that would be because the El Toro hangars were built to house airplanes, while the Tustin hangars were built to house blimps...and blimps are larger than airplanes.







<a href="http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html">http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html</a></blockquote>


Thank you... I guess my whole theory was debunked by that post. Glad to learn something! But still, those hangers are behemoths. I remember seeing a show (History Detectives) on Japan sending over thousands of balloons to land in the USA (some of which did) and the puzzle pieces all fit now. Then again, they made these hangers before Japan sent over the balloons.
 
[quote author="Marsha" date=1236681432]Not sure if many Irvine residents know but there's a massive plume of toxic contamination under a large part of Irvine, and this is well documented at the Heritage Park Library....</blockquote>


oh no, no, no !! you are fine, all the toxins are under the VoC, Irvine is perfect, prestine, clean, healthy and immune to any harm. there is no toxins, crime or bad people in Irvine, all these things are beeing stopped by the Irvine bubble it is living in.
 
[quote author="flmgrip" date=1239763496][quote author="Marsha" date=1236681432]Not sure if many Irvine residents know but there's a massive plume of toxic contamination under a large part of Irvine, and this is well documented at the Heritage Park Library....</blockquote>


oh no, no, no !! you are fine, all the toxins are under the VoC, Irvine is perfect, prestine, clean, healthy and immune to any harm. there is no toxins, crime or bad people in Irvine, all these things are beeing stopped by the Irvine bubble it is living in.</blockquote>


the toxic plume that Marsha is referring to isn't coming from the Village of Columbus/ Tustin Base but from the El Toro Marine Base.



Personally, I am more concerned with the exhaust from the freeways, the pesticides in the former agricultural land, the cell tower radio waves, the land fills near Orchard Hills & Newport Coast, the air pollution from jets at SNA, eating too much milk and beef, drinking too much high fructose corn syrup, driving too much in conjunction to my determination to finding the closest parking spot in the supermarket parking lot.
 
And havent you heard? your new granite countertops may be radioactive, depending on where the rock came from and what kinds of unanticipated stone came with the slab. With all the granite in Irvine, we should all be scared!!!



<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html</a>



I could give that article to 2 different people, and one would panic and call up the radon inspector and have their counters removed for ANY levels of radiation (ridiculous), and another would take the objective information differently and just say "oh well, maybe it will kill some kitchen bacteria too."



If you're the easily panicked type, dont go looking into things. If the TCE thing is scaring you, you should not own a cell phone and stay away from all Wi-Fi sources (good luck!). These are arguably much greater risks in the concentrations we are actually exposed to. But I'm not going to change my life because I might be that one in 600,000 who might not have otherwise come down with something. Sheesh. Dont tell Marsha about the Yellowstone caldera!! She'll have a heart attack.
 
did I mention being exposed to second hand smoke, freezing plastic water bottles, leave plastic water bottles in cars, eating foods such as bacon & salami, getting too much sun exposure during my daily commute, drinking too much alcohol, pumping gas, going into buildings that say are "known to the state of california to cause cancer", standing too close to the microwave?
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1239774086]dude there is nothing wrong with bacon. absolutely nothing.</blockquote>
werd up, bacon makes everything taste better.



bacon > irvine
 
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/5118283/Bacon-sandwich-really-does-cure-a-hangover.html">Bacon cures hangovers! </a> It's a scientific fact!



(but I also heard that nitrates cause cancer)
 
Cosmic rays are far more dangerous than all of the above. Computers use a metal case to block out these rays from flipping bits in the chips. They can break DNA strands causing cancer and destroy brain neurons creating individuals like me.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1239784898]Cosmic rays are far more dangerous than all of the above. Computers use a metal case to block out these rays from flipping bits in the chips. They can break DNA strands causing cancer and destroy brain neurons creating individuals like graphrix.</blockquote>


Actually, I think computers are in metal cases so that they don't interfere with TV and radio (see "RF Shielding".) You better hope graphrix has a similar metal hat so he doesn't wish you away into the cornfield.



<img src="http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/dalekcommand/cornfield.jpg" alt="" />
 
Every time this topic comes up on this blog I am absolutely amazed at the level of denial in the responses - this is a big deal that people don't know about and are buying houses on top of it. Regardless of whether it proves to be cancer causing or whatever buyers should be told and allowed to decide for themselves. Talking about this on this blog is like talking to homeowners during the bubble - not even worth bothering because people in Irvine just don't want to hear it. After learning about this we immediately decided never Woodbridge and not even sure about Irvine as a whole. Not because I am afraid of cancer per se - but because I know property values are based on emotion often and once this gets out - emotion will reign, I don't want to be trapped in my million dollar pit on top of a toxic plume.
 
And I'm amazed at your ignorance. All organic pollutants toxicity has a half life and eventually will slowly disappear. The air you breathe near a smoker or on the I-5 has much more risk to your health.
 
[quote author="emoh88" date=1239869704]And I'm amazed at your ignorance. All organic pollutants toxicity has a half life and eventually will slowly disappear. The air you breathe near a smoker or on the I-5 has much more risk to your health.</blockquote>


That's a pretty ignorant statement too... half lives do imply that things will disappear, but they can be measured into the 100s and 1000s of years. So effectively they could be around forever (relative to the average-aged human).



Not that I'm completely disagreeing with you.... I agree that second hand smoke or inhaling I-5 fumes is more likely gonna hurt you than the toxic plume. To be a bit less adversarial, I would add that if there were <strong>significant </strong>cancer/death risks involved with the toxic plume, they would have manifested in the 60+ years the base has been around. The TCE itself has been in ground 20+ years, and the Ra-226 40+. Show me the cancer rates, right? There are a LOT of people living on the plume right now.



I, <em>personally</em>, will not buy a property on the toxic plume. North of the 5, or south of the 405, sure. Irvine is still a very desireable area for me, all things considered.



Hmm... now that I've been infected with the conspiracy-theory bug, is this why Irvine was converted from farmland into residential stuff? Soil not fit to grow things on (i.e. disclosure statements from VOC)? Doh!
 
My point is that people are told if a house had a murder in it - why shouldn't they be told immediately that there is a known toxic plume under it. Real estate agents are completely irresponsible for not sharing this information and allowing people to make their own choices. This is not omething that should be shared at closing. I have no doubt that the fumes I breathe on the freeway are worse for me - I never tried to argue the cancer issue - but the minute any research gets out that starts to indicate that there is any question in the data - watch housing prices fall. If you are 100% sure that research won't ever happen then go buy a place in Woodbridge - me, no thanks.
 
Movingaround: its a sad reality that politics is involved in issues like this, where the health of the nation is at stake. You wonder why we have skyrocketing healthcare costs? Pure Shakespearean tragedy. <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/29/nation/na-toxic29">See this article </a> There is all this talk these days about creating jobs, stimulating the economy, etc. We just gave away $700 billion dollars! We invest in imaginary things when the very water beneath much of our nation is killing us slowly. IF YOU GOT NO WATER HOW YOU GONNA SURVIVE? Denial won't quench your thirst. If they were truthful about creating jobs, why not put us to work on cleaning the thousands of sites with hazardous chemicals, what about a New Deal like that, with a TANGIBLE BENEFIT? Trust me, there will be millions of jobs. Instead of investing $5 billion a YEAR for these THOUSANDS of contaminated sites across the nation, lets just put $200 billion into a National Aquifer Rejuvenation Act. The people are docile. Why can you not see the disasters which will fall upon our children if we fail to act NOW.



If you are in denial, and you think that the contamination at El Toro is akin to second hand smoke or freeway smog, then you are simply ignorant of the facts. <a href="http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.contams&id=0902770&sort=Media">Here you go</a>:



Contaminants of Concern found in Ground Water

CAS # Contaminant Name Contaminated

Media Area of Site

Found (OU) More Information

100-41-4 ETHYLBENZENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

100-42-5 STYRENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

107-06-2 1,2-DCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

108-10-1 4-METHYL-2-PENTANONE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01)

108-88-3 TOLUENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

108-90-7 CHLOROBENZENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

124-48-1 DIBROMOCHLOROMETHANE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

127-18-4 PCE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

1330-20-7 XYLENES Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

540-59-0 1,2-DCE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01)

56-23-5 CARBON TETRACHLORIDE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

67-64-1 ACETONE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

67-66-3 CHLOROFORM Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

71-43-2 BENZENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

71-55-6 1,1,1-TCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

74-87-3 CHLOROMETHANE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-01-4 VINYL CHLORIDE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-09-2 METHYLENE CHLORIDE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-15-0 CARBON DISULFIDE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-27-4 BROMODICHLOROMETHANE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-34-3 1,1-DCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-35-4 1,1-DCE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

75-69-4 TRICHLOROFLUOROMETHANE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01)

78-87-5 1,2-DICHLOROPROPANE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

78-93-3 2-BUTANONE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

79-00-5 1,1,2-TCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

79-01-6 TCE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

79-01-6 TRICHLOROETHYLENE Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

79-34-5 1,1,2,2-PCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01) ATSDR Profile

TBD-00000010 TCA Ground Water BASEWIDE GROUNDWATER (01)

100-41-4 ETHYLBENZENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

100-42-5 STYRENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

107-06-2 1,2-DICHLOROETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

108-10-1 4-METHYL-2-PENTANONE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02)

108-88-3 TOLUENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

124-48-1 DIBROMOCHLOROMETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

127-18-4 PCE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

127-18-4 TETRACHLOROETHENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

1330-20-7 XYLENES Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

540-59-0 1,2-DICHLOROETHENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02)

56-23-5 CARBON TETRACHLORIDE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

67-64-1 ACETONE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

67-66-3 CHLOROFORM Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

71-43-2 BENZENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

71-55-6 1,1,1-TRICHLOROETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

74-87-3 CHLOROMETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

75-09-2 METHYLENE CHLORIDE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

75-15-0 CARBON DISULFIDE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

75-25-2 BROMOFORM Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

75-27-4 BROMODICHLOROMETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

75-35-4 1,1-DICHLOROETHENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

78-93-3 2-BUTANONE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

79-00-5 1,1,2-TRICHLOROETHANE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

79-01-6 TCE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

79-01-6 TRICHLOROETHENE Ground Water SOIL VOC SOURCE AREA: SITE 24 (02) ATSDR Profile

79-01-6 TRICHLOROETHENE Ground Water BURN PITS: SITE 16 (09) ATSDR Profile



13th: "Knowing the full-truth that unites all, and not teaching all, is

deathly guilt." learned Jesus entering manhood! Manhood! But Marx, grandson

of 2 Rabbis, learned half-truth Ashamed, Marx wrote 1844: "One World

Without Jews," causing 66 million murders, many tortured-blinded,

terrorism! But Gorbachev found: "Surely God on high gave us enough wisdom

to unite all nations!" What an apology we Rabbis owe all nations for not

teaching the Moral ABC's All-One-God-Faith, the real Rabbi Hillel taught

Jesus to unite the human race! For we're All-One or none! All-One! All-One!

"Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" These are the days my

friend, we know they'll never end! We'll work-sing-dance-love, marching on!

Marching on! We live God's law today, we win free speech OK! With

full-truth our only God, we rally-raise-unite All-One! All-One! Exceptions

Eternally? None!
 
^^^ My gawd... I would feel safer lighting a match in meth lab after reading that chemical list. In fact, doesn't half of that list go into meth? Any of you 909er's want to step in to confirm this? On a serious note, what very, and I mean very little I know of chemicals, some of those are serious business. Some of which I believe have been banned before many of us have been born. Or... I might be getting my ENE's and ANE's confused.



Noted: Stick with N. Tustin (hill), and Newport areas with hills to buy a house in. Irvine is too scary.
 
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