Common Core Standards

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abcd1234

Active member
We had our Back-to-School night and the teachers talked a little about Common Core Standards, but not enough that I really understand the changes.

Are there any teachers on the boards, and what is your opinion?

Language Arts didn't seem to change that much, but I got the sense they are dumbing down the math- am I right? 
I have a 6th grader and was wondering about how these changes will affect next year for middle school.
 
Thank you for posting this.  See our post just before yours, which is related, though it may not seem like it immediately:http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,4382.0.html

We too knew nothing about Common Core until just recently.  But make no mistake, this is a HUGE deal.  As parents of school-aged kids in Irvine, we have never been so surprised that something so big could slip so far under the radar. But finally, parents are getting wind of it, looking deeply into it, waking up, and it seems many across the country are either demanding it be changed or halted and/or they are pulling their kids out of school or both.

Through our research and in our opinion, here are a few things it seems are coming with Common Core:

- Shortchanging our kids and schools and throwing away years of California Star test results:  the California state government has decided to completely drop all state testing for a whole YEAR this year (see our Talk Irvine post on AB 484 above) and is accepting billions of dollars (the bait) in federal money to implement Common Core. 
- The untested and unproven Common Core tests move away from more objective forms of testing (multiple choice) to more open-ended, "fuzzy logic" questions, highly subjective and open to interpretation.  Who will be grading these and how do parents know what the questions were and how they were graded and by whom.... guess what, they don't. 
- Common Core literally throws out centuries of historical and classical literature in favor of "informational texts".  Are we serious?  Is this the USSR?  Get ready for the politically motivated, government propaganda and rewriting of history, folks.
- A $100 million massive federal database which could be used to spy on our kids. Massive amounts of data (including medical, social, family, etc) is planned to be collected on our kids and accessed by lots of people and companies.  And we thought the NSA scandal was big?  In 2008 and 2011, a federal agency (the Dept. of Education) decided to, on its own, amend a federal law (can they do that?) passed in 1974 by CONGRESS (FERPA the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act), in part, to make way for what seems like massive invasion of our kids privacy under the auspices of Common Core and "better testing."  There is a federal lawsuit related to these amendments underway and some say aspects of Common Core may be in violation of FERPA and/or parent and student privacy rights.
- At least 5 states have decided to turn down the federal money and not implement this. Many more states have lots of grassroots revolts, from both Democrats and Republicans, in places like New York and Maryland.  Probably no state is ready for this and some who have started to implement it have created a "train wreck" -- in order to get the federal money, it seems.
- Kids and schools are not "common."  They are unique, special and learn in different ways and at different paces.  Common Core is dumbing-down education to meet a common denominator and be one size fits all.  It also shoots for goals that keep us way behind other countries and leaves parents in the dark and out of the picture.

Lots of articles on this and we are just concerned Irvine parents, not in politics or have anything to lose or gain, other than the future of our kids.  But we did some research and you should too. Don't take our word for it.  Then, don't sit there, DO SOMETHING about it.  Call and write your local, state and federal representatives, the Irvine School Board and staff, etc.  Parents are mostly in the dark (just ask any parent to explain Common Core to you), but we need to get in the light and stop this train in its tracks before it becomes a "train wreck."

Standards and testing are good.  We need to hold ourselves, our schools and our school staff and teachers accountable, absolutely.  But it seems that Common Core will not accomplish this, yet it also puts our school system and our kids in the hands of federal bureaucrats in Washington in a massive land grab.  Don't fall for it.

Here is a video overview series (obviously, this group is not in favor of CC):http://www.educationstrategiesgroup.org/common-core-part1/

A few links (there are tons on all sides of the political spectrum):http://commoncore.fwsites.org/category/the-facts/http://paindependent.com/2013/05/groups-on-right-and-left-oppose-common-core-standards-in-pa/http://laschoolreport.com/coalition-calls-on-gov-brown-to-veto-testing-bill-ab-484/http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-common-core-20130422,0,7397614.storyhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-common-core-standards-initiative-in-trouble/http://bwcentral.org/2013/08/common...emocrats-but-an-issue-of-liberty-and-freedom/
 
Thank you for all the links.

I can't believe they are not planning on doing STAR tests this coming year.  I feel for all the bright students out there that want to be GATE classified and have this opportunity taken away from them.  (I know they can do OLSAT- but maybe a parent isn't aware of this or doesn't want to pay the testing fee).  Both of my kids are GATE and I am thankful that they are "in".  It is a nice boost to their confidence knowing they are bright kids- it motivates them more.  Those articles you posted definitely resonated with me. 

 
You are very welcome, abcd. 

It's absurd, it looks like Gov. Brown just signed AB 484 into law today:http://laschoolreport.com/brown-signs-ab-484-ending-old-standardized-tests-california/

Now students this year will take the new "MAPP" test (aligned to Common Core), but the results do not matter and no one will get the results.  Using our kids and schools as guinea pigs.

Not only will this impact things like GATE, but also a decade of Star test trend data on schools, classrooms, and students.  Even if Common Core survives the coming backlash (it may not), it will take 4-5 years to get meaningful data from it.  By then, today's 8th graders will already be out of high school.

Parents need to pay attention and start contacting their school leaders and representatives in government about this. 
 
Yep! said:
You are very welcome, abcd. 

It's absurd, it looks like Gov. Brown just signed AB 484 into law today:http://laschoolreport.com/brown-signs-ab-484-ending-old-standardized-tests-california/

Now students this year will take the new "MAPP" test (aligned to Common Core), but the results do not matter and no one will get the results.  Using our kids and schools as guinea pigs.

Not only will this impact things like GATE, but also a decade of Star test trend data on schools, classrooms, and students.  Even if Common Core survives the coming backlash (it may not), it will take 4-5 years to get meaningful data from it.  By then, today's 8th graders will already be out of high school.

Parents need to pay attention and start contacting their school leaders and representatives in government about this. 
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so does this do something to irvines beloved API scores?
 
qwerty said:
so does this do something to irvines beloved API scores?
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Hi qwerty.  Thanks to our state government (with the exception of those who voted "no" on AB 484), it effectively flushes about 15 years worth of scores down the toilet.  Every school in CA just got to hit the big "Reset" button.  This year, we have nothing... no scores.

With Common Core starting in 2013-14, who knows if Irvine schools will continue to lead.  With the Common Core math tests, it seems that how well students "sweet talk" the grader about how they solved the problem may matter more than getting the correct answer.  Perhaps schools and cities with students who are better at selling their answer will do better than those that can actually solve math problems correctly.  Guess we are now raising our kids to be politicians.

The algebra methods in Common Core apparently were tried only one other place in the world... the USSR, where they dumped them because they didn't work.

 
Do all the teaching, quiz, and homeworks are done on computer and internet after adopting common core?
 
I am wondering how Common Core might change the test the kids take in 6th grade to go into Algebra as a 7th grader.  The teacher alluded something of a change, but didn't go into depth.  I have to wait until conferences to see if there is a major change with this.  I hope not.


 
blocks said:
Do all the teaching, quiz, and homeworks are done on computer and internet after adopting common core?
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Probably not right away, but it seems every school is different.  Seems many details on how the money will be spent in California and in Irvine are still to be decided.  Even prior to Common Core, though, we understand that some Tustin schools already do more on computers than our school in Irvine.  But at our school, some of the science tests are online, even before Common Core, and some of the lessons are posted online (depends on the school and even the teacher).

Our child's current textbooks are more than 7 years old.  Supposedly we will be getting new textbooks (which perhaps can be downloaded as some of the ones we already have today are) that are "aligned with Common Core," though we have not heard when.  Has anyone else?  Seems like the publishers still have to work with every state one by one on this.

The Common Core test is administered on a computer.  But that doesn't make it any better.  And with Common Core, more of the answers to the test will still have to be manually corrected and interpreted by human beings vs. the Star test.  This is because Common Core has more short answer vs. multiple choice.  We want to know who these people will be and how will we know if this is being done consistently and fairly if parents never see the tests or the answers?
 
abcd1234 said:
I am wondering how Common Core might change the test the kids take in 6th grade to go into Algebra as a 7th grader.  The teacher alluded something of a change, but didn't go into depth.  I have to wait until conferences to see if there is a major change with this.  I hope not.
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If you get a straight answer from the teacher, would you post here to let us know?  He/she probably doesn't know yet.

Anything that depends on Star test will have to wait a year or two, or they'll have to use something else.  Interestingly, in Common Core moves Algebra I from 8th grade (where it's been the past 10 years in CA) to 9th grade for most students.  We may be better off getting the books ourselves and letting our kids go ahead if they can.
 
I totally agree with you on the Math and "explaining" how to go about solving the problem versus just calculating the problem and giving the correct answer.  My kids have already been having to "explain" their logic- and it's so silly and a waste of time.  If they know how to calculate it correctly, they already have the logic/thinking to do this.  Why waste time writing it out.
 
abcd1234 said:
I totally agree with you on the Math and "explaining" how to go about solving the problem versus just calculating the problem and giving the correct answer.  My kids have already been having to "explain" their logic- and it's so silly and a waste of time.  If they know how to calculate it correctly, they already have the logic/thinking to do this.  Why waste time writing it out.
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For more complicated problems, there may not be anything wrong with showing the logic or showing the work used to get the answer.  But this should not count more than getting the correct answer.

We read somewhere where a Common Core kid was supposed to describe how he got the answer for "2+2=4"... his answer was: "math".  Classic!
 
abcd1234 said:
I am wondering how Common Core might change the test the kids take in 6th grade to go into Algebra as a 7th grader.  The teacher alluded something of a change, but didn't go into depth.  I have to wait until conferences to see if there is a major change with this.  I hope not.
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Hear that next year all incoming 7th graders will start in 7th grade common core Math-  then a few(?) weeks later can test into 8th grade common core math-  then test again a few(?) weeks later into Common Core Algebra.  Looks like there is a path to Algebra in 7th grade-  just may take longer to be "officially" in that class.
 
Who needs to learn math? Isn't that what smartphones and the Internet is for? :)

I'm interested to see how this pans out. The changes to testing and move away from previous scores is concerning but I'm willing to see how this "new" system works.

I'm not sure how Common Core doesn't allow for individualization and varied learning levels... based on what I've seen, I thought it was meant to help enable that.
 
furioussugar said:
Hear that next year all incoming 7th graders will start in 7th grade common core Math-  then a few(?) weeks later can test into 8th grade common core math-  then test again a few(?) weeks later into Common Core Algebra.  Looks like there is a path to Algebra in 7th grade-  just may take longer to be "officially" in that class.
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From what we understand, Algebra will not even be on the annual Common Core tests until the 9th grade and these do not even start until 2015 in California.  So, are you saying that an individual school district, like Irvine, can allow student advancement based on passing certain assessments?  Seems like this would mean these schools would have to create their own assessments and then at the end of the year, the kids are still tested based on grade-level standards.

Common Core math really seems like a big step back for California, potentially putting kids two year behind where they should be.  Stanford math professor emeritas, Dr. James Milgram, was on the Common Core validation committee (the only one on the commitee with an advanced math degree) and would not sign off on the standards.  He has been one of the most outspoken opponents.  You can see some of his input provided to Texas and Indiana legislatures below:
http://parentsacrossamerica.org/james-milgram-on-the-new-core-curriculum-standards-in-math/
http://hoosiersagainstcommoncore.com/james-milgram-testimony-to-the-indiana-senate-committee/

We wonder why California did not first consult with Dr. Milgram (he's based in CA afterall) and also analyze the pros and cons of Common Core vs. existing standards.  Seems they just took the federal money, possibly at the expense of our kids' education.  So now looks like the standards will be lower than what we already had. 
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Who needs to learn math? Isn't that what smartphones and the Internet is for? :)

I'm interested to see how this pans out. The changes to testing and move away from previous scores is concerning but I'm willing to see how this "new" system works.

I'm not sure how Common Core doesn't allow for individualization and varied learning levels... based on what I've seen, I thought it was meant to help enable that.
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Just look at how it is panning out in the other states where it has been implemented like Lousiana, New York, Kentucky and Delaware. The scores are going down and parents, teachers and even whole school districts are not happy, many are wanting out.  Petitions to stop Common Core are popping up around the country.  http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2013/10/st_tammany_school_board_commit_3.htmlhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...Comes-Under-Attack-From-Educators-In-Delawarehttp://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2013/08/23/new-york-parents-teachers-protest-common-core

Other states where scores are already good, like Massachusetts (with the highest performing public schools in the country), are also saying Common Core is a step down from what they already have:http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...ry.html?utm_source=MERA+Video+PR+June+28+2013

Perhaps Irvine should take note of what is happening around the country and take heed of these warnings.  It looks bad and it going to only get worse.

Note two things that also seem to be coming in these states:  1). some are now asking for "moratoriums" (up to 3 years) on using the test results for anything useful, like measuring schools, teachers, etc.  This will probably come to CA after the first year of results and if it does, count on 4-5 years of stagnation.  2). The federal money is a one time upfront payment.  So guess who pays to implement this after the money runs out?  In California, money seems to run out pretty quickly, so get ready to open your wallet to pay for this.  In states where it is being implemented, seems they come asking for more money for "training."  When the scores are not good, must be the training... so pay to train some more.

We already know enough about this and where it is going to not want our kids to be part of this "experiment."  On top of this, we do not want our kids' personal data to be collected in a $100M massive Common Core central database.  We are not alone and seems like Irvine is underestimating where this will go.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Isn't in CA who determines it, not Irvine?

Are NorCal schools also doing Common Core?
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School districts in some states may have the right to opt out of Common Core (see the article in our prior post about the school district in Louisana opting out).  Let's see what California Dept. of Education says on that.  Was Irvine consulted before the CA governor signed on to Common Core?  Did Irvine have any concerns and, if so, did they express them?

When it comes time to provide private data on children to the businesses and contractors running the data warehouse, it will likely be the school districts that will be providing this data.  Some say this could potentially be violation of parent and child privacy rights, such as the rights provided in the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). 

So, yes, the Governor signed California up for this.  But the schools still have a responsibility to determine if it is what is best for our students and to make their voice heard at the state level.  Has Irvine said anything?  At least the Los Angeles district came out against AB484 (ending Star Testing).  So far, it seems Irvine has been supporting the roll out of Common Core.
 
Tyler Durden said:
I understand what you are getting at... but don't the kids provide their personal data to the businesses and anyone else who wants it whenever they post on FB, instagram and twitter?
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Since you are posting on Talk Irvine, you must also be OK with the NSA reading all your email and scanning all your data as well?  =)

Realize this is probably tongue-in-cheek (that's why our kids won't go near those sites), but to answer your question...

Most of the terms of use of those services prohibit use by kids under 13 years, so this would not only be violating the terms of use, but would also mean pretty irresponsible parents to let kids that are 5yrs-12yrs (or even 13-17, really) on those services.  Parents (legally, at least) may have the right to prevent kids data from going into those sites.  Perhaps not so if their kids go to Common Core schools, it seems.
 
I saw my child's teacher the other day and asked about the testing for Algebra for qualified 7th graders.  His answer was a little conflicted, probably due to the uncertainty of it all.  Like one of the previous posters said, students will have to do a common core 7th grade and 8th grade curriculums.  But then on the other hand, he said conflicting statements like "California is still committed to trying to have Algebra in 8th grade".  He did say there is probably maybe 3% of the students who will be able to take Algebra in 7th grade. 

 
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