Columbus Grove: why live there

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Seriously though, if I am settled down with a family, I would prefer Woodbury over Columbus Grove. It has nicer homes, better landscaping, and more amenities. And being that homeowners are more likely to have a family, there should a price premium placed on Woodbury.



But for anyone who likes access to work, shopping, and entertainment; Columbus Grove would be the better location. Just look at all the rental developments being built on Jamboree. Developers know that this area is more attractive to young professionals. Also, Jamboree is Irvine's entrance to Newport, Costa Mesa, and Tustin. Jeffrey, on the hand, neighbors unincorporated land.



Overall, I think Woodbury appeals more to Asians than Whites. White people like being close to the beach and other recreational sites. Asian people are more worried about appearance and quality. White people would prefer an older home in Newport versus a new one in Irvine.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221404600]Seriously though, if I am settled down with a family, I would prefer Woodbury over Columbus Grove. It has nicer homes, better landscaping, and more amenities. And being that homeowners are more likely to have a family, there should a price premium placed on Woodbury.



But for anyone who likes access to work, shopping, and entertainment; Columbus Grove would be the better location. Just look at all the rental developments being built on Jamboree. Developers know that this area is more attractive to young professionals. Also, Jamboree is Irvine's entrance to Newport, Costa Mesa, and Tustin. Jeffrey, on the hand, neighbors unincorporated land.



Overall, I think Woodbury appeals more to Asians than Whites. White people like being close to the beach and other recreational sites. Asian people are more worried about appearance and quality. White people would prefer an older home in Newport versus a new one in Irvine.</blockquote>


i hope this is NOT what you teach at school...
 
[quote author="IrvineShopper" date=1221375191]I am in the market for a home in Irvine and have some comments on Bkshopr's analysis. Honestly, he sounds like an Irvine Company employee. Let's review his complaints about Columbus Grove:



1. Proximity to power lines.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill has power lines running through it, as does The Irvine Company's Oak Creek.



2. Proximity to trash facilities.



The Irvine Company's Portola Springs, Turtle Ridge and Newport Coast developments are all in close proximity to permanent landfills. GC is merely close to a transfer station.



3. Traffic.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.



4. Perceived environmental concerns.



The Irvine Company's Woodbury, Woodbury East, Portola Springs, Woodbridge and Oak Creek communites are adjacent to or close enough for worry to the old El Toro base. There is real concern about plumes being under Woodbury and Woodbury East.



5. Exteriors.



The Irvine Company exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan) and fake stone. CG's exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan and 3 shades of green), fake stone and siding (depending on style of home). The Irvine Company only allows six styles of home that are all in fact one style.



6. Quality of homes.



The Irvine Company uses several of the same builders as does CG. Both developments products come with low-grade carpet, white 6-inch Dal tile and no window casing.



7. Floor plans.



The Irvine Company-approved floor plans are among the most boring I've ever seen, especially those by California Pacific Homes. On the other hand, CG has some of the most interesting products around, including Ciara, Cantara, Verandas and Kensington Court.



8. Parks, pools and clubhouses.



The Irvine Company has done well in SOME of their communities as to these features. CG has two beautiful clubhouses and 3 parks.



9. Vegetation.



The Irvine Company brings in bigger trees and day one and have impressive entrances at SOME of their communities. CG has fewer big trees on day one, but after 2 years there is no longer a noticeable difference.



All of the communties mentioned are extremely livable, but let's not be sheeple and buy the almighty Irvine Company's propoganda. Comments from snobs are insufferable enough, but comments from snobs who have no reason to be snobs are an unforgiveable offense.</blockquote>


Sound like a CG homeowner trying to convince the world... If you buy it for cheaper, there is a reason. In this case, many reasons...



As a would-be buyer, that almost purchased a place at Madison in CG, I can tell you WB is hands down a much better community. I was going to buy CG because I couldn't afford the premium in WB, NW Pointe, Northpark, etc. that people pay for much better and nicer communities. Home price declines will solve that problem for me so this whitey (reference for hs_teach) wouldn't even consider CG over WB now.
 
I think IS made some good points. And as far as pushing agendas, I think a lot of the bloggers here have them too.



A few months ago, all I heard out of CS and CG was the toxicity and how it would affect resale value.

Asian invasion posted a comment about Woodbridge having the same problem (although not now but in the future) and the same discussion

did not get the same publicity and why did it not affect's Woodbridge's resale value?



[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1221436850][quote author="IrvineShopper" date=1221375191]I am in the market for a home in Irvine and have some comments on Bkshopr's analysis. Honestly, he sounds like an Irvine Company employee. Let's review his complaints about Columbus Grove:



1. Proximity to power lines.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill has power lines running through it, as does The Irvine Company's Oak Creek.



2. Proximity to trash facilities.



The Irvine Company's Portola Springs, Turtle Ridge and Newport Coast developments are all in close proximity to permanent landfills. GC is merely close to a transfer station.



3. Traffic.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.



4. Perceived environmental concerns.



The Irvine Company's Woodbury, Woodbury East, Portola Springs, Woodbridge and Oak Creek communites are adjacent to or close enough for worry to the old El Toro base. There is real concern about plumes being under Woodbury and Woodbury East.



5. Exteriors.



The Irvine Company exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan) and fake stone. CG's exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan and 3 shades of green), fake stone and siding (depending on style of home). The Irvine Company only allows six styles of home that are all in fact one style.



6. Quality of homes.



The Irvine Company uses several of the same builders as does CG. Both developments products come with low-grade carpet, white 6-inch Dal tile and no window casing.



7. Floor plans.



The Irvine Company-approved floor plans are among the most boring I've ever seen, especially those by California Pacific Homes. On the other hand, CG has some of the most interesting products around, including Ciara, Cantara, Verandas and Kensington Court.



8. Parks, pools and clubhouses.



The Irvine Company has done well in SOME of their communities as to these features. CG has two beautiful clubhouses and 3 parks.



9. Vegetation.



The Irvine Company brings in bigger trees and day one and have impressive entrances at SOME of their communities. CG has fewer big trees on day one, but after 2 years there is no longer a noticeable difference.



All of the communties mentioned are extremely livable, but let's not be sheeple and buy the almighty Irvine Company's propoganda. Comments from snobs are insufferable enough, but comments from snobs who have no reason to be snobs are an unforgiveable offense.</blockquote>


Sound like a CG homeowner trying to convince the world... If you buy it for cheaper, there is a reason. In this case, many reasons...



As a would-be buyer, that almost purchased a place at Madison in CG, I can tell you WB is hands down a much better community. I was going to buy CG because I couldn't afford the premium in WB, NW Pointe, Northpark, etc. that people pay for much better and nicer communities. Home price declines will solve that problem for me so this whitey (reference for hs_teach) wouldn't even consider CG over WB now.</blockquote>
 
I have no qualms about talking about different preferences among people and cultures. Students, as well as adults, talk about them all the time. There's nothing wrong with open discussions. I can clearly see why Whites (yes that's how normal people refer to Caucasians) prefer someplace like Huntington over Irvine. I can also see why Asians can choose Irvine over Huntington. I've seen many White people who choose to live in an old apartment by the beach rather than a new one in Irvine.



Back to Woodbury, I think it's a very nice community. I actually have friends who live there. But... ever since moving there, they have become a little "distant" from our other friends. Which is perfectly normal if you're ready to be married and raise a family. But in the Asian culture, living close to family is very important. I have relatives who live literally within a mile of each other. As for friendships, I have friends who live within a couple of miles of each other too. Actually, that's pretty much the case for most kids between the age of 5 to 20.



Woodbury is very suburban. Some might not like suburban.
 
[quote author="rickhunter" date=1221438349]I think IS made some good points. And as far as pushing agendas, I think a lot of the bloggers here have them too.



A few months ago, all I heard out of CS and CG was the toxicity and how it would affect resale value.

Asian invasion posted a comment about Woodbridge having the same problem (although not now but in the future) and the same discussion

did not get the same publicity and why did it not affect's Woodbridge's resale value?



[</blockquote></blockquote>


rick, try to answer this questions to yourself: when you buy woodbridge resale, will the seller insist you sign a doc stating you can't eat the fruits from the soil there?
 
The toxicity thing is easy... if you search google long enough, you can find the navy diagram that shows the extent of the de-greasers that have leaked into the water table (navy's fault) and which have migrated towards woodbridge (because woodbridge used to fill those lakes with water pumped from the water table - which caused a vacume and drew the base pollution towards the pumps). Ironically enough, because of woodbridge's stupidity, new locations like woodbury are free and clear of the problem). Surface toxicity is a greater issue in Voc... which is why they have all of the disclaimers and waivers.
 
When I lived in in L.A. we had 2 orange and 1 lemon trees on our property. I hated having to take care of them. The last thing you will ever see me doing on my lot is growing fruit. Therefore, it's a non-issue for us.



GasJ
 
I guess I pushed some buttons here among some bagholders?



If someone read closely they would see that I was discussing all TIC projects, not just Woodbury.



As far as the fruit trees, I don't think that affects Columbus Grove, but does affect Columbus Sqaure (although I could be wrong on that). Just because Woodbury and Woodbridge don't disclose this issue today, does not mean it won't come up sooner or later as people try to cover their behinds. Face it, Woodbury is next to a former military base.



And excuse me too, if I burst your future value fantasies. If I recall, Stonebridge at Woodbury used to cost very close to a million bucks. What do they go for now, $600,000? Values are dropping fast in Woodbury. At CG it was the builders who caved first, not your neighbors, but the results will be similar.



Don't let me wake you up, continue thinking you have the world's best floorplan, that it's ok to call it a bedroom when it can only take a twin bed, that you can't reach out your window and touch your neighbor's house and that no one is watching down on you in your backyard.



I like Woodbury, and maybe I'll pick up something there when the prices are right.
 
I dont care for planting fruit trees but it does suck to not have the choice. As for CS being the only area to disclose this, I think WB, Woodbridge, etc, all these areas of IRVINE should disclose this. Just because Woodbridge, WB, etc do not disclose this, does not mean I would be planting fruit trees if I were to buy there. Wouldnt it be a disaster for IRVINE as a city if this were to leak out? I hope IRVINE and neighboring cities can come together and really put together a map on areas affected, how far, how deep, what can be done, how it can affect you...



[quote author="irvine123" date=1221442960][quote author="rickhunter" date=1221438349]I think IS made some good points. And as far as pushing agendas, I think a lot of the bloggers here have them too.



A few months ago, all I heard out of CS and CG was the toxicity and how it would affect resale value.

Asian invasion posted a comment about Woodbridge having the same problem (although not now but in the future) and the same discussion

did not get the same publicity and why did it not affect's Woodbridge's resale value?



[</blockquote></blockquote>


rick, try to answer this questions to yourself: when you buy woodbridge resale, will the seller insist you sign a doc stating you can't eat the fruits from the soil there?</blockquote>
 
Ok, since I might get labeled a "bag holder" I'll just post the last pollution plum map - which is at the water table level... not in the soil. But you can look for yourself. This issue at VoC was actually building on the actual land of the old base... not just near by, but actually on the exact same soil where the choppers used to be. Which is why they had to go through such a scrubbing of the soil before building... and why there are waivers... since nobody really trusts the scrubbing to get all of the solvents out of the ground.
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[quote author="IrvineShopper" date=1221375191]I am in the market for a home in Irvine and have some comments on Bkshopr's analysis. Honestly, he sounds like an Irvine Company employee. Let's review his complaints about Columbus Grove:



1. Proximity to power lines.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill has power lines running through it, as does The Irvine Company's Oak Creek.



2. Proximity to trash facilities.



The Irvine Company's Portola Springs, Turtle Ridge and Newport Coast developments are all in close proximity to permanent landfills. GC is merely close to a transfer station.



3. Traffic.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.



4. Perceived environmental concerns.



The Irvine Company's Woodbury, Woodbury East, Portola Springs, Woodbridge and Oak Creek communites are adjacent to or close enough for worry to the old El Toro base. There is real concern about plumes being under Woodbury and Woodbury East.



5. Exteriors.



The Irvine Company exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan) and fake stone. CG's exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan and 3 shades of green), fake stone and siding (depending on style of home). The Irvine Company only allows six styles of home that are all in fact one style.



6. Quality of homes.



The Irvine Company uses several of the same builders as does CG. Both developments products come with low-grade carpet, white 6-inch Dal tile and no window casing.



7. Floor plans.



The Irvine Company-approved floor plans are among the most boring I've ever seen, especially those by California Pacific Homes. On the other hand, CG has some of the most interesting products around, including Ciara, Cantara, Verandas and Kensington Court.



8. Parks, pools and clubhouses.



The Irvine Company has done well in SOME of their communities as to these features. CG has two beautiful clubhouses and 3 parks.



9. Vegetation.



The Irvine Company brings in bigger trees and day one and have impressive entrances at SOME of their communities. CG has fewer big trees on day one, but after 2 years there is no longer a noticeable difference.



All of the communties mentioned are extremely livable, but let's not be sheeple and buy the almighty Irvine Company's propoganda. Comments from snobs are insufferable enough, but comments from snobs who have no reason to be snobs are an unforgiveable offense.</blockquote>


Before you label me as a TIC employee I suggest you research my other 1100 posts and how much I hate cookie cutter homes and ranting on TIC communities. Your 3 post records are all about defending Columbus and the mighty finger should be pointed back at you as Columbus homeowner who is finding the truth too late. I am being impartial in the two comparisons. For the long run Woodbury holds value much better because of greater sensitivities in planning. It won 2 nationwide prestigious grand awards as the best designed community in the country. The "checker board" integration of different builders parcels in Woodbury blends together and allows pedestrians to experience the neo-traditional neighborhood layout.



Woodbury is a neighborhood that addresses a richer walking experience while Columbus at planning level did not address the pedestrian linkage between different builder?s parcels and walking access to the retail. Columbus neighborhoods' perimeter edges are surrounded by rear yard walls.



I look at projects with floor plan design, architectural details and authenticity, durability of exterior finishes, neighborhood planning, recreational amenities, and timeless characteristics.



Columbus is "Aliso Viejo" built on both sides of the Jamboree Corridor. Ask yourself a question why Aliso Viejo has always been in the shadow when it is closer to Laguna Beach, closer to the Spectrum than Ladera Ranch? It also has business parks and power retail centers. The answer is it lacks good planning and branding. You may say because Irvine has better schools but how did Irvine get there? Education importance has always been TIC's strategy and it started in 1966 with UCI. Branding takes more than a newsletter sent to Panda's home in Georgia. Branding includes components that address "live, work, play, learn, and shop".



Many communities like Columbus are trying to benefit from the fringes of the Irvine Ranch boundaries but it is still Parkay and never the real butter.
 
[quote author="frank69m" date=1221396757]>>>The Irvine Company?s Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.





Nope. I don't think Quail Hill is on the 5. You should check your location</blockquote>


Proximity to the freeway if the aesthetic, visual isolation, soumd attenuation, and easy flow of freeway access are resolved properly it is actually a plus. Shady Canyon entrance is only 1/8 of a mile from 405!! Buyers prefer being closer to the freeways.
 
this is getting prety funny here. i have no idea why there are such strong opinions about CG/CS and woodbury



i'm a neutral bystander here, but i have spend time in both communities.



-shopping is closer in woodbury until CS is built out more, but either way i might have seen one time someone walk with a bag of groceries in woodbury.



-the school in WB is a big plus, my GF's kid can walk with his friends to school, that's great. i couldn't cae less, i don't have any kids and don't plan on it



-the "walking experience" of course is greater right now in WB because it's more built out and finished



-WB is way tighter in regards to the spacing inbetween homes, not sure if i'd like that



-CS has camden place, those homes look out of place and have a very strange floorplan



-entire irvine is in irvine brown-tones... no color, that's what i like about CS, it's really mixed up with different styles, some say it's like a lego-box fell over, but at least it's getting a bit away from cookie cutter homes...



-CS has yard walls, WB has a trailer park



-toxic soil, let's just leave that alone, no-one knows, that's the fact. i personally airpolution should be of bigger concern. either one might be toxic or not to a point where itmight affect your health...



i don't see what the big deal about irvine is, besides of the snobs that live there, so i'm not a fan of that, but i'm sure there are snobs wherever you go... so that's a wash too. and if i would have a kid i would rather have it go to a midocre school than a school stuffed to the top was little spoiled brads...



but either way it's a tough choice, they both are good and bad, WB might be better families because of the distance to school and groceries, both have good and bad floorplans, both might be toxic...



if i would need to choose, CS would probably come out by a tiny margin because i just can't handle the irvine-brown...



enjoy, fight over it or not, most other TIC communities don't have the close proximity to shopping and schools (unlike WB) so that's really a wash, unless you don't like brown
 
[quote author="flmgrip" date=1221560180]



-toxic soil, let's just leave that alone, no-one knows, that's the fact. i personally airpolution should be of bigger concern. either one might be toxic or not to a point where itmight affect your health...</blockquote>


<img src="http://livingjourney.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/head-in-sand.jpg" alt="" />
 
Hey, I actually see a significant distinction between Columbus Square and Columbus Grove.



1. Columbus Square is in the middle of nowhere. There's absolutely nothing within walking distance.

2. CS is very undeveloped. There are way too many vacant lots.



On the other hand,



1. Columbus Grove is right across from the District. And it's a nice stroll away from the Harvard bike trails.

2. Columbus Grove is pretty close to being fully developed.



Personally, if I can choose, I wouldn't live in Columbus Square. Maybe in 5 years, but definitely not now or anytime soon.

As for Columbus Grove, it's perfectly nice too me. Nice homes. Great location. There's nothing to really complain about.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221609876]Hey, I actually see a significant distinction between Columbus Square and Columbus Grove.



1. Columbus Square is in the middle of nowhere. There's absolutely nothing within walking distance.

2. CS is very undeveloped. There are way too many vacant lots.



On the other hand,



1. Columbus Grove is right across from the District. And it's a nice stroll away from the Harvard bike trails.

2. Columbus Grove is pretty close to being fully developed.



Personally, if I can choose, I wouldn't live in Columbus Square. Maybe in 5 years, but definitely not now or anytime soon.

As for Columbus Grove, it's perfectly nice too me. Nice homes. Great location. There's nothing to really complain about.</blockquote>


Don't forget, CS is old Tustin schools and CG is IUSD.
 
When TIC unveils its new communities Columbus would gauge the new prices relative to TIC's. Since there is no comparison at this point the best time to buy in Columbus is just right prior to the release of TIC's PR campaign. Around the time of Christmas consumers have greater bargaining leverage for new and resale homes. By mid 2009 may be the time Columbus will be getting greedy as TIC will be preparing for the new communities. One of the biggest reason why the Irvine RE value and economy did not take a plunge like the Inland empire is because of TIC's holding out. Despite of Columbus slashing prices like Mervyn many Irvine homeowners are still holding on to the hope that their properties are worth a lot more than the realitic. They are waiting for TIC to save them by unveiling $425/sf or higher prices.



Buying a home in the Irvine villages is like choosing a bank. Many unstable banks offer higher interest rate incentives. Now a day even a bank can go belly up. TIC's strategy is almost viewed as FDIC insured in the RE value but the consumers paid a much higher price for this security. When a developer is viewed as Indymac or Wamu by selling the inventories and get the hell out that does not help in building the confidence of the branding.



The price drop in Columbus is an incentive to buy soon. As long one is not planning to sell soon Columbus is a better value for a lesser brand as long one is not bothered by the ridicules when their kids will be humiliated by living on the wrong size of the track. The culture is Irvine is all about brandings and matching up with the Joneses. Feeling proud of the address is exactly like carrying the handbag with label. Eventually most will be sucked into this blackhole of the Jonese.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221614375]When TIC unveils its new communities Columbus would gauge the new prices relative to TIC's. Since there is no comparison at this point the best time to buy in Columbus is just right prior to the release of TIC's PR campaign. Around the time of Christmas consumers have greater bargaining leverage for new and resale homes. By mid 2009 may be the time Columbus will be getting greedy as TIC will be preparing for the new communities. One of the biggest reason why the Irvine RE value and economy did not take a plunge like the Inland empire is because of TIC's holding out. Despite of Columbus slashing prices like Mervyn many Irvine homeowners are still holding on to the hope that their properties are worth a lot more than the realitic. They are waiting for TIC to save them by unveiling $425/sf or higher prices.</blockquote>


Besides the high dollar per sq/ft pricing, how much will the Mello-Roos be on Orchard Hills/Laguna Crossing/Stonegate? My guess is it will be similar to Portola Springs ~ 1.8+% effective tax rate.
 
[quote author="IACRenter" date=1221616207][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221614375]When TIC unveils its new communities Columbus would gauge the new prices relative to TIC's. Since there is no comparison at this point the best time to buy in Columbus is just right prior to the release of TIC's PR campaign. Around the time of Christmas consumers have greater bargaining leverage for new and resale homes. By mid 2009 may be the time Columbus will be getting greedy as TIC will be preparing for the new communities. One of the biggest reason why the Irvine RE value and economy did not take a plunge like the Inland empire is because of TIC's holding out. Despite of Columbus slashing prices like Mervyn many Irvine homeowners are still holding on to the hope that their properties are worth a lot more than the realitic. They are waiting for TIC to save them by unveiling $425/sf or higher prices.</blockquote>


Besides the high dollar per sq/ft pricing, how much will the Mello-Roos be on Orchard Hills/Laguna Crossing/Stonegate? My guess is it will be similar to Portola Springs ~ 1.8+% effective tax rate.</blockquote>


Many will want the brand bad enough and be willing to pay all the fees. Just look at the statistics from the last 10 years.
 
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