California Special Election

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They could fix the whole problem in one fell swoop if they'd just scuttle the UC system.



They can't legalize pot (the feds won't let them), but I'm sure they'd like to.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1242888750]Does anyone else think the defeat of these propositions will put such a financial strain on California's budget that they will legalize marijuana to generate tax revenue?</blockquote>


And release non violent drug offense prisoners by the droves.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242890103]They could fix the whole problem in one fell swoop if they'd just scuttle the UC system.



They can't legalize pot (the feds won't let them), but I'm sure they'd like to.</blockquote>




CA provides the whole UC system $3.2B



tuition and fees bring that up to a total budget of about $10B



plus, that is leveraged by us to bring in antoher ~$10B in grants and contracts to the state.





So you think we should cut off the $3.2B and sacrifice $20B in economic activity for the state?
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1242898789]Time to cut the fat with the civil servants.</blockquote>


Just for Luddites like you, a piece of humble pie.



<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik21-2009may21,0,4354063.column">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik21-2009may21,0,4354063.column</a>



<blockquote>Schwarzenegger had the kind of voter support in 2003 that would have allowed him to tell the voters the harsh but necessary truths about California governance and force real reforms down their throats.



Instead, he uttered the same lies about state government and proposed the same nostrums as many of his predecessors: Californians are overtaxed and underserved, the budget can be balanced by cutting waste, fraud and abuse, etc. Like everyone else who has made these claims, he never delivered on his promise.



His cut in the car tax cost the state $3.6 billion per year, making him directly responsible for pretty much all of today's $21-billion budget deficit.

</blockquote>


Larry Kudlow stated yesterday he thought Gray Davis was more of a free marketer than the Govenator. That one made me laugh all day. If California was out of control in 2003, it has now crashed and is waiting to explode at the bottom of a ravine.



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>



Check the action at 1:18. The crash at :53 was Greg Moore at California Speedway. I was at the track for that race and watched that one. Greg died instantly.



If you think that's not funny, the garbage rethoric is more serious.
 
Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.</blockquote>


Answer: doesn't matter because the Federal prision system isn't under concent decree.



Hilzik doesn't go far enough. I was serious about shutting down the UC system in order to balance the budget.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing. </blockquote>


The Governor isn't an idiot. Everyone who voted in affirmation of that Karl Rove planned/Daryl Issa funded/KoolAid infused 2003 recall is an idiot and squarely responsible for worsening our current situation.



Pete Wilson negoiated that deal back in the 1980's that lowered vehicle license fees. Gray Davis followed the law. The Luddites like you who bought into the lie stopped Gray from fixing the problem by following the law.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242901126][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.</blockquote>


Answer: doesn't matter because the Federal prision system isn't under concent decree.



Hilzik doesn't go far enough. I was serious about shutting down the UC system in order to balance the budget.</blockquote>
Cut pensions & post-retirement benefits, cut staff, get rid of some CHP folks, release prisoners on small time drug offenses, and get rid of a 1/3 of school administrators.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242901126][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.</blockquote>


Answer: doesn't matter because the Federal prision system isn't under concent decree.



Hilzik doesn't go far enough. I was serious about shutting down the UC system in order to balance the budget.</blockquote>


Actually it does matter. For a little more than half, they run a system that doesn't fall under a consent decree.



That's the fundamental point. We pay massively more and get significantly less. It's not just the Feds, other States run prison systems way more effectively than we do and they don't fall under a consent decree. Why aren't they under consent decree? Because they use the money effectively.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242902320][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242901126][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.</blockquote>


Answer: doesn't matter because the Federal prision system isn't under concent decree.



Hilzik doesn't go far enough. I was serious about shutting down the UC system in order to balance the budget.</blockquote>


Actually it does matter. For a little more than half, they run a system that doesn't fall under a consent decree.



That's the fundamental point. We pay massively more and get significantly less. It's not just the Feds, other States run prison systems way more effectively than we do and they don't fall under a consent decree. Why aren't they under consent decree? Because they use the money effectively.</blockquote>


They do so at half the cost because the feds sluff off the illegal immigrant problem on the states.



<a href="http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml">http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml</a>



<blockquote>As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:



"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."</blockquote>


This is a simple accounting problem. Taxes are too low for the services demanded by citizens of Califonia. I don't care how they get the equation to balance, so long as they do it. They are going to radically cut services, which I'm OK about.



USC - stop being a sheeple. If they did all that stuff it won't contain MediCAL and the prison cost overruns. Maybe Gray Davis can launch a re-recall of Arnold! Nah.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242902772][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242902320][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242901126][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1242900703]Sorry No_Vase, Hiltzik is a f-ing idiot. There's nothing brave, bright, or anything noteworthy in an article who's basic premise is we don't pay enough taxes. More pablum from the LA Times along the lines of all that's needed is more taxes.



How much does California pay per prisoner? How much do the Feds pay per prisoner?



The system is broken and the idiot Governor did nothing.



He didn't find inefficiency because frankly, he didn't look for it once the State Union spanked him, he rolled, played wimper boy and caved.</blockquote>


Answer: doesn't matter because the Federal prision system isn't under concent decree.



Hilzik doesn't go far enough. I was serious about shutting down the UC system in order to balance the budget.</blockquote>


Actually it does matter. For a little more than half, they run a system that doesn't fall under a consent decree.



That's the fundamental point. We pay massively more and get significantly less. It's not just the Feds, other States run prison systems way more effectively than we do and they don't fall under a consent decree. Why aren't they under consent decree? Because they use the money effectively.</blockquote>


They do so at half the cost because the feds sluff off the illegal immigrant problem on the states.



<a href="http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml">http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml</a>



<blockquote>As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:



"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."</blockquote>


This is a simple accounting problem. Taxes are too low for the services demanded by citizens of Califonia. I don't care how they get the equation to balance, so long as they do it. They are going to radically cut services, which I'm OK about.



USC - stop being a sheeple. If they did all that stuff it won't contain MediCAL and the prison cost overruns. Maybe Gray Davis can launch a re-recall of Arnold! Nah.</blockquote>
*Wondering if moving to Nevada or Texas might be in order*
 
No Vas.



You listen to Larry Kudlow ? Seriously?. He is like a drunk old cheerleader.

Drill, Drill, Drill. The best thing CNBC could do would be to fire his stupid old azz.

The guy is so out of touch with reality. Its embarassing to the rest of the network.

Everbody just rolls their eyes when he tries to hold a real conversation.

The guy is a fossil. Never trust a Jew that became a Catholic that is a doper and been

married 3 times.





State of California should declare Chapter 9. That will break all the Union contracts.

Let all non violent 3 Strike offenders out early.

Legalize Marijuana. For all intensive purposes it already is. Pick up an OC Weekly.

Only thing missing is the taxes on pot.



No Vas. Dont forget Gumby was the one that started all this when he signed those contracts

for Electricity back in 2000. Thank you Enron and all you guys from Texas. Deregulation and the Bush mantra cost this state Billions and started our borrowing bindge.



How soon we forget.
 
[quote author="Sunshine" date=1242616370][quote author="tmare" date=1242612406]All CALPERS pensions are not created equal also.</blockquote>


For those of you who include teachers as part of the group of retired CALPERS participants raiding the State's coffers, I ask you this: Are you aware that the state of education in this country is considered to be a National Security issue? It was a National Security issue under the Bush adminstration, too, so let's not jump to party politics.</blockquote>


Most teachers are member of California State Teacher's Retirement System, CALSTR, which is separated from CALPERS. Many school district employees, those without teaching credentials, may or may not be covered under CALPERS.



I will echo tmare that not all CALPERS plans are equal. The safety, 3%@50 plan only cover very small percentage of CALPERS retirees. Even for people in that plan, very few people can retire at 50 with 90% pay, since it's almost impossible to start as a firefighter/police at age 20. Most of the firefighter/police start their career after their mid-20s.(While military service is not required, the twenty year old have to be exceptional to overcome veterans' preference at hiring process)



For none safety people, many are in 2%@60 plan, which I wouldn't call fat at all.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1242905802]No Vas.



You listen to Larry Kudlow ? Seriously?. He is like a drunk old cheerleader.</blockquote>


It was surreal. He tossed Arnold in front of the bus for Gray! Sometimes he has guests on I want to hear. I use his program for practice listening to one person while two are talking.



He also had Joe Battapaglia on right after that. For those of you who missed the .com bubble, Joe was on CNBC six time a day back then talking up his book and spewing nonsense like "metrics don't matter" and "this is the new economy". He was as bearish as I am yesterday. A double hi-yah moment. I taped it on the DVR incase CNBC doesn't have it archived.



<blockquote>No Vas. Dont forget <strong>Gumby was the one that started all this </strong>when he signed those contracts

for Electricity back in 2000. Thank you Enron and all you guys from Texas. Deregulation and the Bush mantra cost this state Billions and started our borrowing bindge.



How soon we forget.</blockquote>


No, that's Steve Peace's fault for authoring AB1890.



<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html">http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html</a>



How soon we blame the wrong guy. Deregulation rocks! Look what it did for banks and mortgage lending!
 
[quote author="Sunshine" date=1242540763]Our new state motto: <a href="http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13649050&source=hptextfeature">The Ungovernable State</a>



When I returned from working in D.C., I was very annoyed by my friends who would insist upon initiating political conversations with me or complain about this candidate or that candidate, only to later disclose that they either weren't registered voters or didn't bother to show up to the polls on election day. Fast-forward a few years and I find myself very apathetic about this special election. I've asked myself such questions as: What is the point? Is it really going to make a difference?



Anyway, I didn't vote in this poll because I don't know how I'm going to vote yet. This state is f!%ked.</blockquote>


Update: I voted no for Propositions A-E, and yes on Proposition F. While I'll hate to see cuts that affect our youth, these propositions just didn't pass muster. I'm all for a reverse-recall, an overhaul of the constitution, and a little housecleaning in the state legislature.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242907398][quote author="bltserv" date=1242905802]No Vas.



You listen to Larry Kudlow ? Seriously?. He is like a drunk old cheerleader.</blockquote>


It was surreal. He tossed Arnold in front of the bus for Gray! Sometimes he has guests on I want to hear. I use his program for practice listening to one person while two are talking.



He also had Joe Battapaglia on right after that. For those of you who missed the .com bubble, Joe was on CNBC six time a day back then talking up his book and spewing nonsense like "metrics don't matter" and "this is the new economy". He was as bearish as I am yesterday. A double hi-yah moment. I taped it on the DVR incase CNBC doesn't have it archived.



<blockquote>No Vas. Dont forget <strong>Gumby was the one that started all this </strong>when he signed those contracts

for Electricity back in 2000. Thank you Enron and all you guys from Texas. Deregulation and the Bush mantra cost this state Billions and started our borrowing bindge.



How soon we forget.</blockquote>


No, that's Steve Peace's fault for authoring AB1890.



<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html">http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html</a>



How soon we blame the wrong guy. Deregulation rocks! Look what it did for banks and mortgage lending!</blockquote>


You forgot Airlines too. Capitalism has its flaws. Some regulation is necessary.

Even the MILK industry is price regulated.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1242950564][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1242907398][quote author="bltserv" date=1242905802]No Vas.



You listen to Larry Kudlow ? Seriously?. He is like a drunk old cheerleader.</blockquote>


It was surreal. He tossed Arnold in front of the bus for Gray! Sometimes he has guests on I want to hear. I use his program for practice listening to one person while two are talking.



He also had Joe Battapaglia on right after that. For those of you who missed the .com bubble, Joe was on CNBC six time a day back then talking up his book and spewing nonsense like "metrics don't matter" and "this is the new economy". He was as bearish as I am yesterday. A double hi-yah moment. I taped it on the DVR incase CNBC doesn't have it archived.



<blockquote>No Vas. Dont forget <strong>Gumby was the one that started all this </strong>when he signed those contracts

for Electricity back in 2000. Thank you Enron and all you guys from Texas. Deregulation and the Bush mantra cost this state Billions and started our borrowing bindge.



How soon we forget.</blockquote>


No, that's Steve Peace's fault for authoring AB1890.



<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html">http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/california/assemblybill.html</a>



How soon we blame the wrong guy. Deregulation rocks! Look what it did for banks and mortgage lending!</blockquote>


You forgot Airlines too. Capitalism has its flaws. Some regulation is necessary.

Even the MILK industry is price regulated.</blockquote>


I neglected to mention airlines on purpose. My uncle used to be head of the pilots union for Eastern Airlines.



Deregulation has been great if you need a cheap flight out of LA, and horrible if you're in a fringe market like Fresno, and worse if you are an old line airline strapped with leagacy costs and forced to compete with the upstart Jet Blue's of the world. There was nothing wrong with any domestic US carrier before 1978, except that the regulation kept service levels up.



Sorry for my lax spelling. My phone is ringing, my dog is barking, and I'm late to go see a customer.
 
[quote author="IACRenter" date=1242795359][quote author="bltserv" date=1242789165]Anybody else vote on this today ? It was so quiet at my Polling Place.



It is too bad the Teachers will get thrown to the wolves with all the other State Employees and their Unions. But the California Taxpayers are NOT going to take any more on our shoulders. State Govenment and its Employees must cut back or we will just let this state

go into default. Todays vote will be an example of public sentiment



NO MORE BORROWING. NO MORE TAXES. Or time to move to Nevada.</blockquote>


I just voted. My polling place was empty. I guess that 25% voter turnout might be overly optimistic.



All the measures will fail except F. Then we can get ready to see Arnold's draconian cuts to start taking effect and see the number of signatures on his recall petition skyrocket. The people will speak today but things will get even uglier in the months ahead.



I predict even more taxes and layoffs for California, plus a quick plead for a federal bailout. Time to start looking for a job in TX or FL.</blockquote>


Here comes the federal <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-california-budget22-2009may22,0,1294824,full.story">bailout for California </a>per the LA Times...coming sooner than I thought.
 
[quote author="IACRenter" date=1242973479][quote author="IACRenter" date=1242795359][quote author="bltserv" date=1242789165]Anybody else vote on this today ? It was so quiet at my Polling Place.



It is too bad the Teachers will get thrown to the wolves with all the other State Employees and their Unions. But the California Taxpayers are NOT going to take any more on our shoulders. State Govenment and its Employees must cut back or we will just let this state

go into default. Todays vote will be an example of public sentiment



NO MORE BORROWING. NO MORE TAXES. Or time to move to Nevada.</blockquote>


I just voted. My polling place was empty. I guess that 25% voter turnout might be overly optimistic.



All the measures will fail except F. Then we can get ready to see Arnold's draconian cuts to start taking effect and see the number of signatures on his recall petition skyrocket. The people will speak today but things will get even uglier in the months ahead.



I predict even more taxes and layoffs for California, plus a quick plead for a federal bailout. Time to start looking for a job in TX or FL.</blockquote>


Here comes the federal <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-california-budget22-2009may22,0,1294824,full.story">bailout for California </a>per the LA Times...coming sooner than I thought.</blockquote>
Hell, if the Federal Gov't keeps throwing good money after bad to GM and GMAC why not throw some California's way? I'd be curious to see what would happen to the stock market if the state did have to go BK. But hey, we got "green shoots" and "mustard seeds" of recovery all around us. NOT!!!!!!!!
 
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