EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
[quote author="4walls4me" date=1212668786]Obviously I'm struggling with that particular issue and it's why I jumped at the chance to have a real discussion about it. I've also stated it's my ONLY beef with gay marriage/gay rights....if struggling with this one aspect of gay rights kicks me out of the "pro-gay" camp and makes me hater, so be it.
Trooper, thank you (truly) for the discussion. Now that I'm seeing personal judgements being made about me, I think it's time to jump off. But, I really do appreciate it. It'll help me be a more informed voter. You seem very nice and I certainly do wish you well
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4W4M - Sorry for the delay, but I got hit with a nasty bout of food poisoning and I didn't want to respond until I was of sound mind and body. It seemed like you really did want to have a real discussion about the issue and I was trying to engage you in that. If you felt like I was coming at you with a pitchfork, I wasn't, and if it came off that way, I'm sorry. My intent was to get you to think deeply about the issue and the implications of (as I read them) your assumptions. If that was more than you were looking for, then I showed no respect for your boundaries and I'm sorry for that too. I thought we had agreed that there is a wide spectrum of where people can fall between "pro gay" and "hater," and I'm left confused by your statement. If I was forced to characterize you, I wouldn't consider you pro gay (as I defined it above) or a hater. Any characterizations I made about you were based on your comments. That I know of, we haven't met, so any characterization was made, at best, on the 1/100th of what I know of you, and, please note, I qualified it that way. You were, and are, free to smack me around and say my reading comprehension sucks, because sometimes it really does.
If you are looking for me to agree with you, I can't at this time based upon what *I* know and what *I* feel is right. I haven't walked in your moccasins, had your upbringing, or life experience and you have your reasons for feeling and thinking as you do. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't respect you or your opinion - I just don't agree with it. And with the idea of having a real discussion, I wanted to introduce what I thought were some persuasive points and get some persuasive points from you in return. Just because I speak like I know everything (hazard of the job), doesn't mean that I believe that I do. (And I don't. There's a lot I don't know. Heck, I'm still mulling over Apcme's explanation of why indexing the tax burden to zip codes to account for cost of living is a bad idea.)
In short, I really would like to have a discussion, to have you tell me that I'm wrong, and tell me there are aspects that I haven't considered. If there are arguments that go into places that are not comfortable, then feel free to say something along the lines of "well, that's interesting, but I'm not really comfortable going in that direction at this time." I would like to deeply understand your position, and at this point I don't. I know that I'm worse off for it.
Trooper, thank you (truly) for the discussion. Now that I'm seeing personal judgements being made about me, I think it's time to jump off. But, I really do appreciate it. It'll help me be a more informed voter. You seem very nice and I certainly do wish you well
![Smile :-) :-)](https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png)
4W4M - Sorry for the delay, but I got hit with a nasty bout of food poisoning and I didn't want to respond until I was of sound mind and body. It seemed like you really did want to have a real discussion about the issue and I was trying to engage you in that. If you felt like I was coming at you with a pitchfork, I wasn't, and if it came off that way, I'm sorry. My intent was to get you to think deeply about the issue and the implications of (as I read them) your assumptions. If that was more than you were looking for, then I showed no respect for your boundaries and I'm sorry for that too. I thought we had agreed that there is a wide spectrum of where people can fall between "pro gay" and "hater," and I'm left confused by your statement. If I was forced to characterize you, I wouldn't consider you pro gay (as I defined it above) or a hater. Any characterizations I made about you were based on your comments. That I know of, we haven't met, so any characterization was made, at best, on the 1/100th of what I know of you, and, please note, I qualified it that way. You were, and are, free to smack me around and say my reading comprehension sucks, because sometimes it really does.
If you are looking for me to agree with you, I can't at this time based upon what *I* know and what *I* feel is right. I haven't walked in your moccasins, had your upbringing, or life experience and you have your reasons for feeling and thinking as you do. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't respect you or your opinion - I just don't agree with it. And with the idea of having a real discussion, I wanted to introduce what I thought were some persuasive points and get some persuasive points from you in return. Just because I speak like I know everything (hazard of the job), doesn't mean that I believe that I do. (And I don't. There's a lot I don't know. Heck, I'm still mulling over Apcme's explanation of why indexing the tax burden to zip codes to account for cost of living is a bad idea.)
In short, I really would like to have a discussion, to have you tell me that I'm wrong, and tell me there are aspects that I haven't considered. If there are arguments that go into places that are not comfortable, then feel free to say something along the lines of "well, that's interesting, but I'm not really comfortable going in that direction at this time." I would like to deeply understand your position, and at this point I don't. I know that I'm worse off for it.