Buildup along Jamboree continues.

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<p><em>you'll have people that are facing five mile hikes once they get off the train.</em></p>

<p>Hikes to pedestrian-unfriendly retail centers, I might add. Everything around here gets a D or an F. </p>
 
The main problem with trains as mass transit is that it is only part of a greater system which must include an efficient bus system with the train stops as a hub.
 
While most think these build-up of condos around Jamboree are doomed, let me offer a different point of view, specifically for the buildups near Alton.



There is a booming Asian elderly population in Irvine seeking for housing. If you stop by one of the Asian markets around Irvine on a weekday, you will notice a good showing of elderly people eating breakfast, buying newspaper, or just hanging out. They prefer to live nearby these Asian stores/supermarkets since most of them do not drive. Walking distance to these places are premium for them. Noise isn't a great issue since most came from urbanized cities in Asia. With all the Asian markets/shops/restaurants going up in Diamond Jamboree Plaza (http://www.diamond-jamboree.com/directory.htm), I'd thing these condos would be rather popular, if they target the right group.



Just my 2 cents...
 
It's an excellent rule of thumb that rail is only a replacement/improvement for a successful bus system. If buses don't make up a large proportion of trips, rail won't work.
 
effenheimer, your point is well made by The District, I can't think of a more pedestrian unfriendly concept, very small botique malls with major retail anchors literally a quarter mile away. Personnally, i see those small botique shops in the pedestrian mall failing within a few years. Also, I can't think of a retail center with a traffic circulation plan worse than the districts, I hope some engineer was fired over that one.



momopi, I agree, dt fullerton is happening at night, but a success? well maybe it is, but it seems to be degrading fast due to almost weekly incidents of crime and gang related activity. at least thats my take.



These developments hardly seem to follow some sort of urban theory, save high density, they are all islands unto themselves and offer no connectivty (i.e. the fortress known as villa sienna). Mixed use is key, but very very difficult to do right and many municipalites tend to require it, simply because one of their planners went to a conference on urban planning. Developers can provide the space, but I think we'll see many of these spaces become vacant as they aren't in high traffic areas, the space is too small for a major retailer, no parking, liability having residents living above, and the communities they are built in aren't large enough to sustain the services.



UK, that's not a bad thing, don't leave the safety of the irvine nest, stay close to home, it's not safe in LA with their narrow streets, gang bangers, liberal politics and lack of an over abundance of churches.......one of us one of us
 
the retail centers that are going to have to support this high density urban living along jamboree are park place, the district, and in the future the diamond plaza. i guess you can include the ralphs shopping ctr on harvard. park place and the district are already traffic and parking nightmares. and anyone notice that the diamond plaza has far too little parking, especially given it will have 2 stories of retail?





being asian, i love the idea of another ethnic retail ctr, especially a good dim sum restaurant, coming to the area. being a daily commuter up and down jamboree, i am horrified by the idea!





i wonder if bkshopr would be willing to thrown in his thoughts on whether asians would have any interest in living in this downtown jamboree community, because i highly doubt it. for the most part 1st and 2nd generation asians are far too conservative minded when it comes to housing to even consider the notion of urban living. if you come from countries where people are living on top of each other, why would you move to america to do the same? i heard a realtor once mention the high rises would be gobbled up by former new yorkers and urbanites who are used to, and prefer, that kind of lifestyle. this notion completely ignores the fact that maybe they moved out of nyc to get away from that lifestyle. maybe they should build luxury highrises in greenwich, conn.
 
My point wasn't as to whether these places were appropriately priced - they're of course pretty nutso overpriced - it was differing with those who intimated that it would be impossible to live in such place and completely undesirable. Even if not like downtown, NYC, there's a LOT less driving involved and I find that centrally located living is much more demure and environmentally conscious as opposed to outsided conspicuous consumption of McMansions crammed onto small lots with 10 mile or more commutes. Point being is that we need to embrace the idea that urban living is the only long-term, sustainable solution to future growth. We need to embrace it and make it work. Not crap all over it every chance we get, intimating that it's stupid or foolish to live so close to all that traffic. Give these people some props for being pioneers.
 
i dont think urban living is foolish in general, but i do think it was foolish to jump the gun on the concept in irvine so early. given that there is still plenty of vacant apts, condos, existing homes, new homes, and planned communities in mid-development yet put on hold, irvine is still at least a generation requiring urban living. a ten mile commute is not enough reason to undergo such a massive urban and social change in this town. voc and columbus grove are hardly bursting at the seams and these are suburban neighborhoods less than a few miles from this "downtown".





keep in mind that these massive condo complexes and high rises weren't developed by tearing down apt bldgs and strip centers that were too small. they're being built on empty lots!
 
Most of the land they were built on had been previously occupied by outdated industrial buildings, the plaza and ave one and watermarke oh and villa sienna and toscana are the exception.



acpme, i think they've got a 5 level parking structure behind the development to service the retail. If anything, Irvine over parks retail and underparks residential



About the nyers prefering so cal high rises, i think you are right on, that many of these transplants will be living in sfr, not high rise. The people living in high rise are wannabe nyers. I think that's the demographic buying here, speaking of which, i toured an occupied unit at santiago street lofts where some "hipsters" moved in. They essentially moved the Design Within Reach store into their live work unit. It was really kinda sad, but it was obvious that they were trying to emmulate something they saw in a trendy design magazine.
 
I would consider living near the Diamond area if the price were right., e.g., the Plaza Irvine highrises being $600,000 for 2,000 sf with a shuttle on the hour going to the Diamond Plaza, or the midrises at $350,000 for 2,000 sf. But the pricing has a ways to go before it becomes a serious consideration for me, and probably most people.
 
I have noticed seriously flawed parking schemes in many new retail places, for example, the screwed up parking in the new Simi Valley Town center, where the parking spaces are not separated from a busy feeder street by an island (it's hard to explain without actually experiencing it, but imagine you are looking for a parking spot, and normally after going down one parking lane, you quickly turn to go into the next parking lane to look for empty spaces; but at Simi Valley when you finish one parking lane you find yourself merging into fast cross traffic just to get into the next parking lane, I was shocked to see headlights closing fast on me) and the screwed up parking in the new Westfield at Topanga multi-level parking structure next to the Nordstroms where there are so many delays caused by stop signs within the structure. I can't imagine the delays during the holiday seasons at these new retail places caused by whoever designed and approved the parking lots.
 
A shuttle has been proposed and partially funded to serve the IBC. The pricing is another issue. Well, when Central Park West is built out, everything will change and we'll have a 24/7 environment.........just kidding, nature will reclaim the site before anyone moves in. Irvine will flood the excavated holes and designate it a wetlands preserve.
 
<p>Urban has it's own skewed connotations. Mixed used living is better. I wouldn't mind an authentic mixed used area that has retail & entertainment on level 1, office space on 2 and 3 and living space 4 and up. There are a couple requirements though. First, it has to get to be fairly ubiquitous. An island of mix used is a failure. Minimum requires roughly a 1 mile wide by 3 mile strip that is heavy density and mixed used. 2x6 would be better. It is required to establish critical mass. More importantly, it needs to be authentic. New York and San Fran has real mixed neighborhoods, a great mix of businesses and commercial. </p>

<p>Everything out here that I've seen planned reeks of conspicious consumption and cookie cutter solutions. Living in the new west Urban development would be an insanely expensive proposition or no apparent reason other than they are attempting to maintain image. The majority of mixed used isn't Park Avenue, but the builders are pretending everybody will be park avenue.</p>

<p> </p>
 
I don't understand what you mean by authentic. Do you mean let the market dictate development with far less emphasis on zoning regulation?
 
hs_teacher, agreed. I'd say I might be the target demographic for 'urban living', since i'm single, 25, and reasonaby successful (for my age, I believe).



Urban Living in Irvine *definitely* doesn't appeal to me. Theres only one bar open until 2:00 am! There arn't any grocery stores in walking distance of all the high rises and low rises! Where are the late night restaurants! I work late a lot, and many times i'm forced to either eat fast food, or drive to newport or costa mesa for a late night meal.



No thanks. If I buy in Irvine, i'm going to get myself a back yard so I can have friends over and hang out past 11:00 pm.
 
<p><em>i'm going to get myself a back yard so I can have friends over and hang out past 11:00 pm.</em> </p>

<p>Hope you like HOA fines. I'd bet coffee that if you're out regularly at 11PM with friends enjoying beverage that you'll eventually run awry of the nanny state of many HOAs.</p>

<p> </p>
 
yes, hang out in your back yard in irvine, the backyard that fits one table and two people. Are you talking about the new urban west development in anaheim?
 
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