Buildup along Jamboree continues.

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<p>I have been following the pseudo "urbanization" along Jamboree for the last few years and I have to say I am intrigued by the continual development popping up along this busy street. </p>

<p>The intersection of Jamboree and Alton has been undergoing a transformation lately with the Diamond Jamboree Shopping Center, which, is nearing completion, as is the 6 story apartment complex across the street. The other corner has been bulldozed and fenced off for a while, but on my way to the gym tonight I saw new promotional matterial for a brand new luxury apartment complex coming in 2009 <a href="http://www.avalonirvine.com/">www.avalonirvine.com</a>. </p>

<p>If you take a look around, they are also building a rather large complex called, I believe Main St Village on Main St and Siglo. They have already completed the ghost town of Camden at Jamboree and Main.</p>

<p>So where is this all going? We have a few "High Rises", on the other side of the freeway, and we have all these low rise rentals coming onto the market, in the next 2 years. Is this a test run to see if people will bite into the pseudo urban environment? If it becomes apparent that there is a demand for this type of living in Irvine, where will the infrastructure stand with the increased density? </p>

<p>If Jamboree is your major thouroughfare, be ready, traffic is only going to get worse.</p>

<p> </p>
 
This is rhetorical question, there are already a lot of empty units in IAC's Irvine complexes, will all these new rental units drive rent prices down?



As far as I know, there is no demand for the Urban lifestyle in Irvine, so far it's been a disaster for Developers...I for one wouldn't like to live overlooking a busy street but that's just me....



Plus, Businesses in Irvine are closing fast, they're being taken over by Churches..."Live, Work and Pray in Irvine"
 
It's possible that we laymen only see things in the immediate future. While the developers are seeing things 15 years down the road?
 
<p>I make a right turn from Alton to Jamboree quite often, and every time I just marvel not only at that they are building those apartments right at that busy intersection --- but at how close they seem to the street. Maybe it is just perception from the car, but doesn't the outside wall seem like it is about 6 feet off the street? Same thing with the one at the corner of Jamboree and Main (that used to always be picketed, and seems like they have been building it for about 3 years). Can you imagine the exhaust fumes coming up through your window? How luxurious!</p>
 
About the only area where I disagree with most of the board members is on urban (or urban-like) high rises and traffic. Perhaps intuitively people point to them as worsening traffic. But, given their location close to places of employment and major thoroughfares, you actually get a lot few miles driven with urban high rises. Less traffic, lower consumption of resources (building materials, energy, electricity) for the place itself and MUCH MUCH lower use of the public treasury for utilities, roads and other infrastructure.



I've seen the "traffic" complaint and NIMBYism with respect to high-rises and it's a really, really poorly thought out sentiment. Sort of like blind objections to public transportation as being too expensive. As if roads were free.



Perhaps, with time, these sentiments will make it out here from the East Coast. We're still too suburban here in our mentality.



So, with that being said, I posit we should laud these builders for their efforts and encourage denser living. Those taking up such a lifestyle are making very forward-looking, anti-consumptionist decisions that are better for all of us.
 
Not by walking, but driving only a fraction of the distance they would if they lived in more suburban Irvine. I would be 0.2 miles from work instead of 7 or 8 if I lived in one of those places. That's a 16 to 1 reduction in commute. I used to live in a high-rise in Charlotte and walk to work. It was a joy walking past all the people in traffic, the condo was gorgeous and headache free. Also, no concern about driving after going out for the evening. My vehicle costs were a lot less.



Point is, these places drastically reduce traffic, not make it worse. Almost no one works in the residential area in Irvine, most work in our industrial area which is right where these places are situated. I'm just tired of seeing the mistaken logic that high rises increase traffic. Our population's growing in the U.S. and we've got to put people somewhere. How far into the desert are we going to build before the maintenance and commuting and environmental costs become too great?
 
The noise from traffic would be horribly annoying to practically all the low rise units along Jamboree, the renters or owners would have to have their windows closed all the time, particularly the units near the intersections with cars accelerating. I can't imagine even considering renting one of those "urban" units.
 
Yeah, there are, of course, tradeoffs. I prefer a short commute and an extra hour or two a day to being able to open my windows. Plus, there are plenty of units where you don't hear anything on the interior. I'm sure there's a price tradeoff associated with those differences.
 
ElricSeven,





One of the major trends right now in urban planning is toward more mixed-use development for exactly the reasons you described. When planning and zoning really took off along with suburban sprawl after WWII, the conventional idea was to separate land uses to avoid compatibility problems. Nobody foresaw the problem with traffic congestion this kind of planning creates. We are returning to the old city model of intermingled land uses. We are just more careful in what uses those are. The urban planning approach taken after WWII did prevent heavy industry from being built in residential areas which was a great step forward, but the complete segregation of land uses was not necessary and had unintended side effects including traffic. The mixed-use approach is much more complicated to get it right, but it is a reasonable solution to our traffic problems that does not entail more traffic infrastructure.
 
Yeah, one of my favorite message boards is www.urbanplanet.org which is filled with urban development fans. There is, for obvious reasons, no thread dedicated to Orange County or Irvine. But, I've learned tons from it, including an appreciation for urban living and the importance of its sustainability. Our suburban living style is actually going to die out (eventually) and look like a temporary blip on the radar induced by poor planning at the advent of the automobile. That's why I get a little itchy under the collar when hyperbolic statements are made to the tune of "I would never live in the city, it's so this and so that...ugh, it's horrible!" Meanwhile, the vast majority of recent history (and in most places outside of the U.S.) people live and raise children in urban environments. I don't know the numbers, but I would guess that most non-farm workers of the world live in urban environments, quite happily and more efficiently than the temporary trend of American suburban living that's all of maybe one generation old and already showing decline. So, I think a little more care needs to be used when intimating that people are stupid for selecting such housing choices. I see a lot more validity and modesty in those who embrace urban lifestyles than 40-mile commute surburbanites in their McMansions and Escalades driving down the highway with cheeseburger wrappers flying out the window and looking down their noses at city-dwellers.



Rant, rant, rant....sorry.
 
the problem with the urban living concept on jamboree is that irvine co has already done such a great job of creating self-sustaining suburban communities that combine residential and basic retail. for example, from woodbury i have the option of a trader joes, ralphs, cvs, and albertsons within walking distance. i also i do my share of shopping at ethnic grocery stores -- theres a chinese and korean mkt little more than a mile away. if i'm willing to venture to culver and walnut then you've got another ralphs, cvs, another trader joes, smart and final, and even a persian mkt . home depot, cvs, and countless dining, banking, and specialty retail options also within walking distance. parks, trails, libraries, and schools all within walking distance.





i was in the office over the wkend and stopped over at the shopping ctr across the street where i normally grab lunch. since i'm not normally there on wkends i didnt realize all the businesses there are closed on the wkends. makes sense -- no one is around! like IR said, the commercial district is strictly commercial. this isn't like other metro areas where office bldgs have shops and retail downstairs.





living at jamboree and main might put me closer to work but i guarantee i will be driving a lot more in general. where do i get food? where do i shop? where do you walk around? where are all the supposed advantages of urban living? i can envision an urban style community at the spectrum being a great place to live, nevermind how the village is faring at the moment. it is to irvine what the newport center is to nb. sort of like the park la brea / grove in the fairfax district of LA.
 
"And how do ALL those people get to their jobs? Not by walking ..."



If I lived there it would only be a 10 minute walk to my office. Currently, I only have a 10 minute drive, but I would gladly exchange it for the free exercise.



Unfortunately, at the advertised rents I don't think the value proposition is there yet.
 
Elricseven, I understand what you're saying, are you currently living and working in an Urban environment?

The problem with an Urban concept right now as I see it is that first off all, a lot of Businesses in Irvine are closing, there are "for lease" signs all over the Industrial area, plus, with the loss of Corporations such as New Century etc, are there enough People employed in Irvine to fill all these new units? I don't know, I'm just asking.

I am one of around 4 People in my Company of around 350 Employees who live and work in Irvine, the rest prefer to drive up and down the 91 fwy for affordable Housing.



Lets say the average price of a nice Urban Condo in Irvine is, what, $700K? Maybe 1% of those employed in Irvine earn enough to comfortably pay the mortgage along with the $1000+ HOA and Mello Roos fees etc. I read here on IHB that the median Family income in Irvine is only $85k.



The majority of People who work in Irvine earn probably around $40k pa? Again I'm only guessing.



Then again, in Urban environments, there's always the broken window theory, I have seen this happen on a horrendous scale in the UK....



Amazingly enough, although I do not miss driving the Freeway to work every Day my six minute commute can also get a bit old at times, I can go months on end without ever leaving Irvine...
 
The population density here hasn't gotten to be point where a true urban community can develop. At best I think some mid-rises might make sense, but not high-rise yet.





I'd be happy if they just put in a light rail network across south OC and copy the success of downtown Fullerton.





Oh, and, a night life after 9pm would be nice too.
 
<p><em>I'd be happy if they just put in a light rail network across south OC and copy the success of downtown Fullerton.</em></p>

<p>Success?</p>

<p>Light rail will never be anything but a boondoggle in OC. We're too sprawled out. Either you'll have a hundred stops on the rail and it will be useless or you'll have people that are facing five mile hikes once they get off the train.</p>

<p> </p>
 
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