Bitter Buyer Meme (on a variation of a theme by IrvineRenter)

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Fraychielle_IHB

New member
When XYZ suggests on OCFliptrack or Irvine Housing Blog that they are going to buy a home in Irvine for whatever reason (god forbid not for flipping), I see a good number of comments to the tone of, "Oh, XYZ is just deluding himself with the secret assumption that prices aren't going to fall by that much in the next few years!" With the flavor of, "Why are you thinking of buying in this climate??"



I was a participant in the housing bubble myself, having bought a condo in LA in early 2002 and watching in disbelief as condo prices went to insanely unsustainable prices. I see enough dying canaries in the mine (subprime lenders going downhill, 1st payment foreclosures, attempted flips gone wrong, etc) to be well aware that the "soft landing" people are hoping for is going to be quite a bit more painful than predicted.



However, I still am planning to buy in OC for one main reason ~ simplicity. I have two young kids and somehow have accumulated so much junk in the past 10 years that each time I move (four times so far) my blood pressure goes through the roof and I get all snarly as I can't find anything I need. I hate packing with a passion and my kids suffer from the disrupted routines.



While my home value may tank, I see the money lost as opportunity cost for stability for my family and saving the time, hassle, annoyance, and cost of moving multiple times. And while I may regret somewhat the extra paid in property tax as well as mortgage, I don't plan on changing jobs or moving out of Orange County anytime soon. Believe me, I have weighed the downsides and upsides of owning versus renting over and over again, so my decision to buy is not some cockamamie pie-in-the-sky idea about getting rich from buying real estate in the OC!! :)
 
"Oh, XYZ is just deluding himself with the secret assumption that prices aren't going to fall by that much in the next few years!"



I've said almost exactly that on a blog somewhere. For many, if not most, that is true. I will take you at your word this is not your reason.



"While my home value may tank, I see the money lost as opportunity cost for stability for my family and saving the time, hassle, annoyance, and cost of moving multiple times."



If you are comfortable with the decision you are making, you are the only one who really needs to be. I think people have a hard time justifying the potential cost of sparing yourself this inconvenience. Let's say you buy a $750,000 house, and let's say it drops 20% in value over the next 3 to 5 years. That is $150,000. That is a lot of money. You could rent for 3 to 5 years, and with the savings you could pay a company to move you with a complete white glove treatment (where you go on vacation for a few days, have fun, and come back to a new home with all of your possessions in place). Even if you spent $15,000 on the move to get millionaire's treatment, you are still WAY ahead. IF you are willing to spend upwards of $150,000 to avoid moving again in 3 to 5 years, you must understand why some observers might think your decision is a bit foolish.
 
The way I feel about this is that everyone has a different situation and different priorities. I also don't think anyone will be able to predict what will happen in the future with certainty. That being said, I do think prices are going to come down and that there is the potential for things to get really bad. Because of this, I decided to sell an investment property of mine rather than keep it as a rental. Am I absolutely certain things are going to get really bad? Nope.. That's why I still own my primary home. I'm comfortable owning my home even if prices go down. That's the decision I've made and I know there will be people who think I'm foolish for either selling my investment property or for not selling my primary residence. I can't make everyone happy





The problem is when people buy for the wrong reasons (fear and greed, not to mention ignorance):




"I need to buy a home because otherwise I'll be priced out"

"I'm going to be a real estate investor so it makes sense to buy this $600k condo and rent it out for $2200/month."

"I can afford a $500k condo on my salary if I do a Neg-Am 100% financed loan. It's ok because it'll be worth $50k more in a few months"

"I'm going to buy this house with 0% down, live in it for 2 years, and then make a ton of money when I sell it"

"If I buy in the first phase, I'll be able to flip it for a guaranteed profit because builders always raise their prices each phase"

"I want to be a homeowner because the only people that rent are those that cannot afford to buy and I don't want that to be me"

>
 
zovall,





I have thought about what I would do if I were a homeowner right now, and I can understand why you are keeping it. I am assuming you probably bought before the runup and are not in any real danger of going underwater. This puts your property tax basis at a really low level. If you were to sell and try to time the market to repurchase, you might save a few bucks, but you will need to move twice and you will end up with a higher tax basis. In those circumstances, I can see why staying put makes sense.
 
Fraychielle, the solution is to reduce the amount of stuff you have, not find more storage space for them.





I moved 4 times over the last 4 years. The most expensive one, costed me almost $3,000 in moving and storage expenses. After that, I went through my stuff and tossed out anything that was really unnecessary, and gave as much of it away to goodwill as I could before throwing the rest away. I'm also actively reducing the amount and size of my furniture. Geez they had to hoist my Ikea couch through the balcony to get inside. Next time I'm buying a smaller couch.





I recommend reading up on Japanese-Minimalist decor styles. It works for my friends in Singapore with small condos.





Give you kids 1 box each and tell them they can take all the toys they can fit in the box with them. Everything else that doesn't fit will be donated to poor kids. Better to teach them earlier than to have them turn into pack rats.
 
momopi,





Interesting to read your advice. About 10 years ago I got in to studying Buddhism, and I was particularly struck by the Buddha's teachings on attachment. I threw away almost all of my stuff, and I still live a very Spartan life. I don't have anything beyond the necessities for daily living: cloths, a few electronic devices, some required paperwork, a few books, my car, a bed, etc. I don't collect anything, my garage is empty (except for some crap my wife is attached to), and I feel really free. I have not kept the same address for more than a year since 2000, and each time we have moved, our whole world fits into a small moving van. I highly recommend living that way, as I have been much less burdened by possessions, and I have freed up time and money for the things I really do value.
 
Hello IrvineRenter,





I'm happy to hear that you've adopted a "light" lifestyle with your posessions.





Some years ago, when I was inbetween properties, I spent a month living off my buddy's couch. I only had 1 suitcase and couple of boxes of stuff with me. It was a huge change from a house packed full of crap. I used to work with A/V equipment and had tons of hardware plus 500+ video tapes. I had 20+ year old furniture that I kept just because I thought I'd need it. After I made the decision to start unloading them, life has much, much better!





I'm currently in the process of replacing my old dishes with a new and smaller set (Ikea 365 type). No more colored plates... I'm going with all plain/white ones and in smaller numbers. All my old dishes will be packed up and donated to goodwill. I think I'd prolly reduce my dishes in the cabnets by about 2/3rds. I have no idea why I bought so many sets before from Ross... total waste of $$ and hard to match (colored).
 
I lived/worked in Europe for almost two years and loved my minimalist life then. After that I bought a condo in the DC area and accumulated what I consider to be a lot of stuff. Now after moving in my fiance w/ many times more stuff than I have I feel weighed down by all the crap we have. We basically require at least 1800 sq feet and a two bay garage to store things that for the most part don't matter. When we thought we'd have to evacuate due to the fires it was amazing how few must-save things we really had. That being said it can be hard to let go of some things. For me its books. For my fiance its everything unfortunately.
 
When we moved from Laguna Niguel to Irvine we decided to buy mostly new Furniture so we gave nice Leather Couches etc away to People who we knew needed it and it still cost us $1400 for a moving company.

The part that my Wife didn't find funny was that I took the Movers aside and said "This is the most important thing you need to move today" pointing to my $8000 Bicycle...

But we spent 4 weekends going through stuff and either trashing or giving away a ton of stuff we knew we wouldn't need...



The OP is yet another Victim of greedy People using our most basic neccesity, a place to live, as a commodity, I feel sorry for Her.

Hopefully everything will crash to the bottom really soon so we can start buying Houses and Condos' that we can use for their intended purpose...to LIVE in and feel like we actually belong in a community...
 
Interesting that this thread popped up again today. January 1st is my ritual "garbage day" when I organize what few possessions I want to keep and throw away the rest. If I haven't touched something during the last year, I will probably throw it out. I do have some books and books on tape that I keep long term, but most everything else gets purged.
 
I, also, believe in living sparsely. I live in a little townhome and for nearly 2 years, I didn't furnish my living room. And because I didn't want my relatives to think I am broke. I recently decided to furnish it. I bought a couch, 2 side tables, a coffee table, 2 lamps and a nice 32" TV. Guess what? I hardly use the new furnitures or TV. I still run up to my bedroom to watch my old tube tv. If anything, the new furnitures clutter up the room.



I think we should only buy things we truly use. Otherwise, it's just wasteful.
 
<p>I lived out of a suitcase for nearly 3 years. It wasn't bad as it sounds...for a part of it, I lived in hotel rooms and the other part, I moved into my inlaws's house due to a short (turned out to be long) project. I always had the modern comforts like bed, desk, tv but everything I personally cared about or needed fit in a couple suitcases. </p>

<p>As much as I like knowing that I don't have a lot of junk, I do find myself buying more stuff now that we have a 2 bedroom apt. Simple example - my wife and I rarely drink coffee and we typically buy when we do. But we seem to be entertaining a lot more often these days and as such, we decided to get a coffee machine though it only gets used 6 times a year. Is it truly needed? Nope. But is there there anything wrong with me owning it so that my guests can enjoy coffee when they are over? Nope. </p>

<p>Our move into the 1b from the inlaws took my jeep and her sedan. Our move into the 2b took my jeep, her sedan, and the small uhaul truck (mainly for furniture as we had none before). Next time, I am guessing it will take a medium uhual truck and both of our cars again. I personally see nothing wrong with it. We are by no means pack rats but we have the space, have the money, why not enjoy it and buy stuff. </p>
 
<p>Speaking of pack rats. A neighbor pack his garage with so many stuffs. You can forget about fitting his cars inside the garage. He can't even fit his trash bins in it.</p>

<p>I somewhat agree with, "...we have the money, why not enjoy it and buy stuff." </p>

<p>So I have a 2nd bedroom, sure I have the space. But why would I buy a bed if no one will be using it? Just to fill up the space? Like I have said. Buy it only if you <strong>need</strong> it. And if some people think that having a coffee machine so that his guests can enjoy a good cup of joe 6 times a yr. Then I guess that is a <strong>need </strong>for them.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p _extended="true"><strong>Man Saves All His Trash For a Year in Statement About Consumerism</strong></p>

<p _extended="true">BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- Ari Derfel leads a trashy life. He just wants to remind everyone else that they do, too.</p>

<p _extended="true">The 35-year-old Berkeley caterer said he has saved every piece of trash he has generated during the past year to see how much garbage one person creates. In his case, it was about 96 cubic feet.</p>

<p _extended="true">The experiment began as a way to examine his own consumption habits, Derfel said, but grew into a statement about consumerism and the environment.</p>

<p _extended="true">"When we throw something away, what does 'away' mean?" Derfel said. "There's no such thing as 'away."'</p>

<p _extended="true">The refuse -- including every tissue, receipt, food wrapper and plastic bottle -- lies in bins in the kitchen and living room of Derfel's apartment. He composts his food scraps.</p>

<p _extended="true">Derfel said he eventually hopes to donate his accumulated waste to a sculptor.</p>

<p></p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Fraychielle,</p>

<p>I do not believe that anyone on this blog is anti-house buying but rather anti-bubble. If you believe that you have non-economic reasons for you to buy now, am truly not concerned about prices, and have found a house that you want, go for it. </p>

<p>However, that is simply not the case for most people. I for one have to look at the economics of buying a house because it will be my first house and I do not make enough income to be able to afford a house that I will be living in for the next 10-20 years of my life. Right now, all I can reasonably afford is somewhere between 300-400K and that only gets you a 2 bd 1000 sq ft. townhouse here in irvine. Not exactly the place that I envision living in for the rest of my life. </p>
 
funny that someone mentioned the evacuations... when we thought we had to evacuate, i grabbed all my impt documents, dog food, and about one duffle bag's fill of clothes.





(un)fortunately the fires never came close enough which gave us TOO much time to pack and i spent the next 2 days unpacking and reorganizing all the stuff acpmette had packed into our cars.
 
ha-ha, wait till you have kids :)) My toddler's gear and toys take up half of our garage and living room feels more like a toy storage area. Since we're planning to have more kids, we are not giving any of that away...

i did get rid of a coffee table, one of my 2 tv sets and and some shelves...

evacuation is easy if you keep all of your important docs and USBs w/your pics and home movies in a small safe (one you can lift and carry).
 
For some reason, I came across this thread yesterday (not exactly sure how). I realized that I have way too much crap - especially since we added a new member to the family in January. I went home last night and started putting my stuff on eBay. We'll see how far it goes - I was thinking about renting a storage unit previously, but I may not have to now. :)
 
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