Backyard Landscape Plans and Recommendations

[jojoe1104]

Especially when the reviews come from vetted TI members

I used to live in turtle rock and my kids are from Uni high and after their school, I moved to north park square. I've been living in Irvine for more than 11 yrs. I serve my customer any time. Evening, night, early morning and weekend. Any time at custmer conviences.

NO. I don't do business like what they are saying here. I need to see who they are.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@jojoe:

I understand your frustration but you still have to respect the anonymity this forum provides.

If what is being said isn't true, get your customers who are happy with your work to post on TI to support your side of it.

Trying to expose someone's true identity is a no-no here... handle it via PM but I would advise against revealing the address, identity, etc of that member.

It could all be a misunderstanding but from what you are posting, it sounds like you are very busy and like other contractors, your perception of the type of customer service you are providing may not actually match that of your customers or prospects.

Do you have a website we can look at to see your work?

 

[qwerty]

Jojoe - asking/demanding to find out who these people are on the internet makes you look bad/weird. This is not a court if law where you get to see your accuser. It's an Internet forum. Customers do anonymous reviews on the internet all the time, that is how it's done now. Even the best reviewed business get bad reviews and what they do is they take responsibility, whether it's true or not, and they ask the customer how they can improve. So as long as what you say is true, that you do quality work at reasonable prices you will continue to get referral business from your existing customers. Internet reviews are fine but word of mouth advertising from your existing customers is better.

So just stop demanding to know who dealcatcher is, makes you look bad. Just move on. We don't have landscapers here on this forum, why don't you stick around and answer questions from people, show them how helpful you can be and I'm sure it will lead to more new business. We have two realtors on the forum and they have probably generated a lot of business from people on this board and they did it by just answering people's questions and showing readers they knew what they were talking about. So just let it go and move on. In the long run this site can be valuable to you.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I have witnesses this over the years the best blogs over the internet is by far the ones not associated with corporate sponsorship and business solicitations. As soon the moderator trying to monetize a site the contents go south. It is best to keep  business solicitations or business conflicts in private messaging.

The nice thing about a blog is the freedom of expression but even with this one watchful eyes monitor content regularly.

Corporate businesses that stand to benefit from this city often resort to blacklist individuals and chase those criticisms out of town.

 

[jmoney74]

Yup don't launch a witch hunt to find out who they are.  As a business owner, you should be finding out if your customers are satisfied during and after the work is complete. Instead, the customer has shared their experience online. Trying to harass them online only justifies that you lack a lot of customer sevice skills. Times have changed.

 

[jojoe1104]

Jojoe - asking/demanding to find out who these people are on the internet makes you look bad/weird. This is not a court if law where you get to see your accuser. It's an Internet forum. Customers do anonymous reviews on the internet all the time, that is how it's done now. Even the best reviewed business get bad reviews and what they do is they take responsibility, whether it's true or not, and they ask the customer how they can improve. So as long as what you say is true, that you do quality work at reasonable prices you will continue to get referral business from your existing customers. Internet reviews are fine but word of mouth advertising from your existing customers is better.

So just stop demanding to know who dealcatcher is, makes you look bad. Just move on. We don't have landscapers here on this forum, why don't you stick around and answer questions from people, show them how helpful you can be and I'm sure it will lead to more new business. We have two realtors on the forum and they have probably generated a lot of business from people on this board and they did it by just answering people's questions and showing readers they knew what they were talking about. So just let it go and move on. In the long run this site can be valuable to you.

Hi,
Right, you are right. Thank you for your advice. All last week I was so surprised after I got this news from my prosfect customer and I tried to fix it. In the long run market will discipline. Maybe they will think they will be benefited from vicious unethical ananymous comment like this, the customers who experienced will not change the memory with me. Anyway I do business almost from referals and I am okay but I don't want to put me and my company so bad image position to unknown public. I make my best efforts to make customer happy and their heartful thanks always gave me referal reward sonner or late and I didn't have recession at all for last 10 yrs. I don't make even so common website because I don't want to share my sweat taking effort results to public yet. Who knows my personality and my company resources wilingly hire me anyway. I work for them with best care.

Thanks.

 

[jojoe1104]

@jojoe:

I understand your frustration but you still have to respect the anonymity this forum provides.

If what is being said isn't true, get your customers who are happy with your work to post on TI to support your side of it.

Trying to expose someone's true identity is a no-no here... handle it via PM but I would advise against revealing the address, identity, etc of that member.

It could all be a misunderstanding but from what you are posting, it sounds like you are very busy and like other contractors, your perception of the type of customer service you are providing may not actually match that of your customers or prospects.

Do you have a website we can look at to see your work?


I think ananymity is not much needed at site like this because real name makes more responsible for everybody. It means more beneficial help to members who wants real info not fake info. This is not for national wide or state wide issues. People wants some better info about their new home landscaping from neighborhoods. If there is some delicate issue, people can use private message and he/she want to share publicly, either good or bad,  they can do that under their responsibility. Today I helped my customer at Lambert ranch for their potteries and fountain and they told me that one neighborhood is visiting each house to let them know certain contractor has such such problems and let them don't use that contractor. Who really damaged by certain contractor does that. Why not at forum like this to let more people know. So I requested dealcatcher to suggest proof based on 5w1h. If I did like what he asserts, I deserve more than that. Damaged home owner by me will also do more than that. But unfortunately nobody has such experience with me.

Unfortunately I don't run web because too many copy for sweat taking effort result. I can show you at any time my portfolio if you contact thru my well known telephone number and notorious company name at this forum. More than welcome! 

 

[jojoe1104]

Yup don't launch a witch hunt to find out who they are.  As a business owner, you should be finding out if your customers are satisfied during and after the work is complete. Instead, the customer has shared their experience online. Trying to harass them online only justifies that you lack a lot of customer sevice skills. Times have changed.

Thank you for your advice, again. Kind of bad feeling to me for the ugly image to people...

 

[jmoney74]

Best way is to just tell people that you are open to fixing their issues and to contact you privately. Most people are reasonable.

 

[studio]

1.  Echo Family (Jo) - 949.533.4055

Is echo a korean guy. Kinda skinny. Baseball cap. White van?

.
Yup same guy. This guy seemed really nice when I met him but I did a little more investigation because his aggressive door-to-door approach seemed suspect. I checked a good number of his previous jobs and spoke directly with the homeowners. Most complained about how frustrating it was dealing with the guy and that they wouldn't use him again. They said it was a headache dealing with him.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

You get what you pay for! Hope you find this useful.

I have also contacted him...  agree on most of above.  When I ask him when you can start.  He told me June/July timeframe.  I was so mad, after wasting time with him.

Apparently, Jo has contact me on the private msg.  He has bring in some concerns, and also has agree me to post again about our conversation.  I would like be clear about my experience with him.  Also send apology that things are lost in quotation.  I should only agree on "some of above", not "most of above"

Hi, Studio

This is Jaekwan Jo from Echo family, inc. I've read your quote (Mar., 7) about me and my company. I have too many referals nowadays but my schedule is very tight and I'm meeting customers after checking if they are okay with my time frame and if it's okay, I schedule to meet. But I don't think I made your time wasted by saying my availability (long lead itme) at the end of meeting. I don't want to make my referal customer disappointed with me because I don't want to ruin relationship with my original customer. Let me know how I made you unhappy like privious quote (from dealcatcher) you agreed.

Thanks.

If you agree what other people said and I wasted your time, I should know who you are because what dealcatcher mensioned is groundless gossip. I also requested investigation who he is.

As I told you, I am telling everybody who contacts me that I'm not available until July. Maybe I told to your wife or whoever but still wanted to meet just to use me. It's me who should get mad. Also you said you agree most of what dealcatcher mensioned. I never had issues like that with my customer. How do you agree on most of it? You should answer or you should delete and apologize. I requested investigation to moderator.

I think I know who you are because I told customers from beginning that I am not available until June/ July. They were all referal customers. I consulted few customers in Feburary and early March and few didn't hire me but mostly agreed and hired me at the time frame  i noticed.

I know it's anonymous public forum but when some people say something on public, he/she should be careful what he/she says. And you said 'agreed on most of above'. Did you experience even any of those comments with me or did you witness any of that or how can you say that? Or are you just bad minded person to any bad things?  You should let me know why you said that? I know you are a referred customer and when you get a referal, it's not what you quote for your comment. If you have specific case you experienced or you heared enough to agree with dealcatcher, let me know or apologize and delete you mensioned. 

Dealcatch sounds like contractor who is working around this area and losed a lot of bids against me.

1. What method did you try to get hold of me? Email, telephone calls, text messages? Which one? I'm getting a lot of tickets by answering calls even while driving. Didn't I show up without notice?
2. I graduated top MBA school in USA with top 1% English score and I don't have difficuties in communication with native speaker and finish degree. Did you have problem with me to get information you need?

As I told you, I'm hiding myself and my company because of the very reason like this. Other contractors who continually lose bids against me is too jealosy to do any bad thing to me.

I dont' want to send you private message but you still doesn't know what you did. As I told you, if you want to comment anything publicly about somebody, at least it should be based on fact. I clearly told my availability from first meeting and you knew that. And I'll ask Amy what she said to you about my schedule. She knows. But you commented that I made you mad because I told my availability at the end of wasting your time. Also you said you agree most of the previous comment aout me and you told me my English problem and contact issue. I don't think I had problem with you in communication or I didn't reply right away. What does this mean? You know what you did and what you are doing. Let me know what are you going to do to fix the issue with me.

Sure. Because it is not what I need to be known publicly. Actually I was mad at you because even if I declared from beginning that scheduling is the most problem and you know that but you told me that you don't want I work for my interest only. If time frame is not fit to you, you should not contact me second time. From now on you should be more prudent what you are doing. Dealcatcher wrote big noble about me and I'm going to fix it, also.

The story is, I know Jo via a referral.  Since I like how my friend done his landscape.  I decided to spent some time with with Jo to talk about my landscape plan.  Since I never quite understand what Jo is saying on phone/in person.  I always want him to send emails about the details.  Until he send me a quote/landscape plan.  I decided to slow down since his price wasn't good enough to move me.  I should at least find a 2nd quote to compare.  Because he was aggressive in the beginning,  I have always assume he is really to start to work at least within a month.  One thing for sure, he never told me his availability is in June/July.

After period of time, I couldn't find another trusted referral and I was so back up with other "new home errands".  I decided to give Jo a chance, ready to sign a contract with him.  It was when he was always too busy, hard to finalize the detail.  Until one time, I finally asked his real interest that I want to get the project moves fast.  He finally tells me about his July/June timeframe.  It is when I decided to take my emotion and find another landscaper.  So far, I really  satisfy with the new move.

The point is, I shouldn't be brief.  People on the forum deserve a better review.  I shouldn't use quotation without consider things might lose in translation.  Jo deserves my apology for doing that.  Last, I don't know DealCatcher.  For sure I don't want to get in between them.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I think ananymity is not much needed at site like this because real name makes more responsible for everybody. It means more beneficial help to members who wants real info not fake info. This is not for national wide or state wide issues. People wants some better info about their new home landscaping from neighborhoods. If there is some delicate issue, people can use private message and he/she want to share publicly, either good or bad,  they can do that under their responsibility.

While the real identities of a majority of the members here are private, it doesn't mean there isn't responsibility to what people post. For many of the regulars, their reputation is determined by the helpfulness of their posts. I don't need to know who ZeroLot is to trust her (didn't even know she was a she for a while) opinion because she provides enough details to convince me that she does the proper vetting of vendors.

And unlike Yelp, members here can be called out if they are not trustworthy and since this is a smaller group, that will become known quickly.

The anonymity here does not equate to fake information or reviews, especially if the member has a high post count. That's why the "Thanks" count (and post count) exists, so that other members can determine how "true" another member is when they do post reviews.

Today I helped my customer at Lambert ranch for their potteries and fountain and they told me that one neighborhood is visiting each house to let them know certain contractor has such such problems and let them don't use that contractor. Who really damaged by certain contractor does that. Why not at forum like this to let more people know.

People use different methods to share information. Some use Yelp, others use Angie's List... some use TI. The thing about TI is because it is Irvine-centric, you get a more localized review base. And because it does have range of veteran members, you do get a sense of "responsible" reviews.

So I requested dealcatcher to suggest proof based on 5w1h. If I did like what he asserts, I deserve more than that. Damaged home owner by me will also do more than that. But unfortunately nobody has such experience with me.

That's fine, that's what PMs are for. But if a member declines to give you their real identity, that's their right. You should have no expectations of any type of revelations because there is no guarantee from you that you won't share that information because one can never know how that will be used.

That's why I'm protective of my identity and have to trust the people here who do know who I am to also protect it.

Unfortunately I don't run web because too many copy for sweat taking effort result. I can show you at any time my portfolio if you contact thru my well known telephone number and notorious company name at this forum. More than welcome! 

I understand, but in this day and age, you should get someone you know to throw together a small website just to have your information on it. It's like a business card, you really shouldn't be doing business without one (in my opinion).

And, at the very least, while you think your name is "notorious", at least your name is known. Even by your own admission, it sounds like you are very busy, so if that's the root of these complaints, maybe that's something you can work on.

Good luck and I hope you stick around more to post things that are helpful to the members which will help build the reputation for you and your company.

 

[jojoe1104]

I think ananymity is not much needed at site like this because real name makes more responsible for everybody. It means more beneficial help to members who wants real info not fake info. This is not for national wide or state wide issues. People wants some better info about their new home landscaping from neighborhoods. If there is some delicate issue, people can use private message and he/she want to share publicly, either good or bad,  they can do that under their responsibility.

While the real identities of a majority of the members here are private, it doesn't mean there isn't responsibility to what people post. For many of the regulars, their reputation is determined by the helpfulness of their posts. I don't need to know who ZeroLot is to trust her (didn't even know she was a she for a while) opinion because she provides enough details to convince me that she does the proper vetting of vendors.

And unlike Yelp, members here can be called out if they are not trustworthy and since this is a smaller group, that will become known quickly.

The anonymity here does not equate to fake information or reviews, especially if the member has a high post count. That's why the "Thanks" count (and post count) exists, so that other members can determine how "true" another member is when they do post reviews.

Today I helped my customer at Lambert ranch for their potteries and fountain and they told me that one neighborhood is visiting each house to let them know certain contractor has such such problems and let them don't use that contractor. Who really damaged by certain contractor does that. Why not at forum like this to let more people know.

People use different methods to share information. Some use Yelp, others use Angie's List... some use TI. The thing about TI is because it is Irvine-centric, you get a more localized review base. And because it does have range of veteran members, you do get a sense of "responsible" reviews.

So I requested dealcatcher to suggest proof based on 5w1h. If I did like what he asserts, I deserve more than that. Damaged home owner by me will also do more than that. But unfortunately nobody has such experience with me.

That's fine, that's what PMs are for. But if a member declines to give you their real identity, that's their right. You should have no expectations of any type of revelations because there is no guarantee from you that you won't share that information because one can never know how that will be used.

That's why I'm protective of my identity and have to trust the people here who do know who I am to also protect it.

Unfortunately I don't run web because too many copy for sweat taking effort result. I can show you at any time my portfolio if you contact thru my well known telephone number and notorious company name at this forum. More than welcome! 

I understand, but in this day and age, you should get someone you know to throw together a small website just to have your information on it. It's like a business card, you really shouldn't be doing business without one (in my opinion).

And, at the very least, while you think your name is "notorious", at least your name is known. Even by your own admission, it sounds like you are very busy, so if that's the root of these complaints, maybe that's something you can work on.

Good luck and I hope you stick around more to post things that are helpful to the members which will help build the reputation for you and your company.

Hi,

Thank you very much for your detailed response and advice. I'll make more efforts to serve customers better.

 

[jojoe1104]

1.  Echo Family (Jo) - 949.533.4055

Is echo a korean guy. Kinda skinny. Baseball cap. White van?

.
Yup same guy. This guy seemed really nice when I met him but I did a little more investigation because his aggressive door-to-door approach seemed suspect. I checked a good number of his previous jobs and spoke directly with the homeowners. Most complained about how frustrating it was dealing with the guy and that they wouldn't use him again. They said it was a headache dealing with him.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

You get what you pay for! Hope you find this useful.

I have also contacted him...  agree on most of above.  When I ask him when you can start.  He told me June/July timeframe.  I was so mad, after wasting time with him.

Apparently, Jo has contact me on the private msg.  He has bring in some concerns, and also has agree me to post again about our conversation.  I would like be clear about my experience with him.  Also send apology that things are lost in quotation.  I should only agree on "some of above", not "most of above"

Hi, Studio

This is Jaekwan Jo from Echo family, inc. I've read your quote (Mar., 7) about me and my company. I have too many referals nowadays but my schedule is very tight and I'm meeting customers after checking if they are okay with my time frame and if it's okay, I schedule to meet. But I don't think I made your time wasted by saying my availability (long lead itme) at the end of meeting. I don't want to make my referal customer disappointed with me because I don't want to ruin relationship with my original customer. Let me know how I made you unhappy like privious quote (from dealcatcher) you agreed.

Thanks.

If you agree what other people said and I wasted your time, I should know who you are because what dealcatcher mensioned is groundless gossip. I also requested investigation who he is.

As I told you, I am telling everybody who contacts me that I'm not available until July. Maybe I told to your wife or whoever but still wanted to meet just to use me. It's me who should get mad. Also you said you agree most of what dealcatcher mensioned. I never had issues like that with my customer. How do you agree on most of it? You should answer or you should delete and apologize. I requested investigation to moderator.

I think I know who you are because I told customers from beginning that I am not available until June/ July. They were all referal customers. I consulted few customers in Feburary and early March and few didn't hire me but mostly agreed and hired me at the time frame  i noticed.

I know it's anonymous public forum but when some people say something on public, he/she should be careful what he/she says. And you said 'agreed on most of above'. Did you experience even any of those comments with me or did you witness any of that or how can you say that? Or are you just bad minded person to any bad things?  You should let me know why you said that? I know you are a referred customer and when you get a referal, it's not what you quote for your comment. If you have specific case you experienced or you heared enough to agree with dealcatcher, let me know or apologize and delete you mensioned. 

Dealcatch sounds like contractor who is working around this area and losed a lot of bids against me.

1. What method did you try to get hold of me? Email, telephone calls, text messages? Which one? I'm getting a lot of tickets by answering calls even while driving. Didn't I show up without notice?
2. I graduated top MBA school in USA with top 1% English score and I don't have difficuties in communication with native speaker and finish degree. Did you have problem with me to get information you need?

As I told you, I'm hiding myself and my company because of the very reason like this. Other contractors who continually lose bids against me is too jealosy to do any bad thing to me.

I dont' want to send you private message but you still doesn't know what you did. As I told you, if you want to comment anything publicly about somebody, at least it should be based on fact. I clearly told my availability from first meeting and you knew that. And I'll ask Amy what she said to you about my schedule. She knows. But you commented that I made you mad because I told my availability at the end of wasting your time. Also you said you agree most of the previous comment aout me and you told me my English problem and contact issue. I don't think I had problem with you in communication or I didn't reply right away. What does this mean? You know what you did and what you are doing. Let me know what are you going to do to fix the issue with me.

Sure. Because it is not what I need to be known publicly. Actually I was mad at you because even if I declared from beginning that scheduling is the most problem and you know that but you told me that you don't want I work for my interest only. If time frame is not fit to you, you should not contact me second time. From now on you should be more prudent what you are doing. Dealcatcher wrote big noble about me and I'm going to fix it, also.

The story is, I know Jo via a referral.  Since I like how my friend done his landscape.  I decided to spent some time with with Jo to talk about my landscape plan.  Since I never quite understand what Jo is saying on phone/in person.  I always want him to send emails about the details.  Until he send me a quote/landscape plan.  I decided to slow down since his price wasn't good enough to move me.  I should at least find a 2nd quote to compare.  Because he was aggressive in the beginning,  I have always assume he is really to start to work at least within a month.  One thing for sure, he never told me his availability is in June/July.

After period of time, I couldn't find another trusted referral and I was so back up with other "new home errands".  I decided to give Jo a chance, ready to sign a contract with him.  It was when he was always too busy, hard to finalize the detail.  Until one time, I finally asked his real interest that I want to get the project moves fast.  He finally tells me about his July/June timeframe.  It is when I decided to take my emotion and find another landscaper.  So far, I really  satisfy with the new move.

The point is, I shouldn't be brief.  People on the forum deserve a better review.  I shouldn't use quotation without consider things might lose in translation.  Jo deserves my apology for doing that.  Last, I don't know DealCatcher.  For sure I don't want to get in between them.

As everybody knows, landscaping is actually only a small portion of the house but it deals with personal taste and property value and most people is very causious about hiring contractor. Home owners want to hire contractors who they can trust. I also had problem to sell at first time when I started business in Irvine but continual truthful service gave me a lot of referals over time. Nowadays my work is almost all thru referals but unfortunately I can't accomodate all the referals request. That's my problem. But people who want to work with me wait until I'm available. I'm busy but I don't want to serve improperly by taking more than I can digest. So I notice in advance my availabily  and when they agree, I move on. But at most case because it's referal, I visit and give free consultation for their project. That's the best I can do even if I can't schedule the job at their need.

As I know of your case, after I met you at your friend's house you called me and I visited you and gave you my opinion about your project. I didn't say June/July at first visit but explained my schedule situation. Meanwhile Amy told me few times to help you for your project and I tried to contact you but you didn't respond. After that, you contact me about 2 months later and asked me an estimate for your own sketch. Unfortunately I couldn't understand what you are looking for from your drawing and I tried to make it clear design wise and material wise exactly what you want. I visited Ganahl lumber for ipe wood you are looking for and I confirmed with you about that material.

I don't have much memory to talk with over the phone. I met you and after that we emailed each other. I didn't know you couldn't understand me over the phone. Maybe I was driving. Quick response is very important so I talk with customer at any time even I'm driving. Sorry for that.


For the proof, I post the email you and me communited.

2/21 

I feel it is very simple, are you still interested to take the project?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I told you, I can't do the job until June. If your schedule doesn't allow you to wait, I can't do the job earlier. Xie xie.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't know if June is the earliest.  If that is the case.  Thanks for everything you have done.


It sounds like you knew my difficulty of scheduling earlier but didn't know specifically I'm not available until June.

Sorry for not serving you at the time frame you wanted.

 

[eyephone]

This whole ordeal is quite entertaining. I'm glad I'm not part of it.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@jojoe1104

My two cents is that you're not going to "win" by having the debate out here in the open.  Despite what you think of the issue, Bones is a regular here and is simply sharing his story about what happens.  I think that most people will understand that everyone has different experiences and tastes especially when it comes to landscaping.

Complaints, justified or not, are part of the game for a business.  I think a business is better off 1) addressing the issue with the customer privately and politely and 2) reflect on what might have gone wrong rather than going on the offensive.  I think what you are doing is somewhat counter productive.  I know that I would now be reluctant to use you.

An extreme example is the lady from Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmares.  Instead of reflecting on what they could have done better, they just blamed the customers.  A big no no. 

Edit:

Also..you seem to be focused on the time frame issue but that's probably the least of issues listed IMO.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

 

[jojoe1104]

@jojoe1104

My two cents is that you're not going to "win" by having the debate out here in the open.  Despite what you think of the issue, Bones is a regular here and is simply sharing his story about what happens.  I think that most people will understand that everyone has different experiences and tastes especially when it comes to landscaping.

Complaints, justified or not, are part of the game for a business.  I think a business is better off 1) addressing the issue with the customer privately and politely and 2) reflect on what might have gone wrong rather than going on the offensive.  I think what you are doing is somewhat counter productive.  I know that I would now be reluctant to use you.

An extreme example is the lady from Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmares.  Instead of reflecting on what they could have done better, they just blamed the customers.  A big no no. 

Edit:

Also..you seem to be focused on the time frame issue but that's probably the least of issues listed IMO.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

As you advised, I tried to solve this issue thru private messages, but bones and studio wanted on public to debate. That's what they wanted. 

 

[jojoe1104]

@jojoe1104

My two cents is that you're not going to "win" by having the debate out here in the open.  Despite what you think of the issue, Bones is a regular here and is simply sharing his story about what happens.  I think that most people will understand that everyone has different experiences and tastes especially when it comes to landscaping.

Complaints, justified or not, are part of the game for a business.  I think a business is better off 1) addressing the issue with the customer privately and politely and 2) reflect on what might have gone wrong rather than going on the offensive.  I think what you are doing is somewhat counter productive.  I know that I would now be reluctant to use you.

An extreme example is the lady from Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmares.  Instead of reflecting on what they could have done better, they just blamed the customers.  A big no no. 

Edit:

Also..you seem to be focused on the time frame issue but that's probably the least of issues listed IMO.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

As you advised, I tried to solve this issue thru private messages, but bones and studio wanted on public to debate. That's what they wanted.

 

[jojoe1104]

@jojoe1104

My two cents is that you're not going to "win" by having the debate out here in the open.  Despite what you think of the issue, Bones is a regular here and is simply sharing his story about what happens.  I think that most people will understand that everyone has different experiences and tastes especially when it comes to landscaping.

Complaints, justified or not, are part of the game for a business.  I think a business is better off 1) addressing the issue with the customer privately and politely and 2) reflect on what might have gone wrong rather than going on the offensive.  I think what you are doing is somewhat counter productive.  I know that I would now be reluctant to use you.

An extreme example is the lady from Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmares.  Instead of reflecting on what they could have done better, they just blamed the customers.  A big no no. 

Edit:

Also..you seem to be focused on the time frame issue but that's probably the least of issues listed IMO.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

As you advised, I tried to solve this issue thru private messages, but bones and studio wanted on public to debate. That's what they wanted.

I dont' want to be shown in public too much and I don't advertize, I don't do picketing as most contractors do, web, etc. This case is kind of different situation for me. Dealcatcher posted what I don't understand and beacuse of that I posted verbosive long explantion about me and my company. And I decided to open my situation and confront directly. As you quoted dealcatcher again even after my explaination, if you buy his opinion, what can I do.

Sorry for the noise.   

 

[jojoe1104]

This whole ordeal is quite entertaining. I'm glad I'm not part of it.

I want to :'(. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@jojoe1104

My two cents is that you're not going to "win" by having the debate out here in the open.  Despite what you think of the issue, Bones is a regular here and is simply sharing his story about what happens.  I think that most people will understand that everyone has different experiences and tastes especially when it comes to landscaping.

Complaints, justified or not, are part of the game for a business.  I think a business is better off 1) addressing the issue with the customer privately and politely and 2) reflect on what might have gone wrong rather than going on the offensive.  I think what you are doing is somewhat counter productive.  I know that I would now be reluctant to use you.

An extreme example is the lady from Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmares.  Instead of reflecting on what they could have done better, they just blamed the customers.  A big no no. 

Edit:

Also..you seem to be focused on the time frame issue but that's probably the least of issues listed IMO.

-Couldn't keep commitments. Said he'd be on the job on certain days, but never showed.
-Sometimes hard to get a hold of.
-Randomly showed up in your backyard with new prospective clients w/o asking calling first.
-Very difficult to communicate with. He doesn't speak English very well. One time I told him I couldn't meet him at the house until a certain time, but I get a phone call from him 15 mins later saying that he was at my house. I told him I wasn't going to be home!
-Uses the same orange colored stone veneer at his jobs.
-Got caught charging one homeowner for stone that he ended up cutting in half and using at the house next door. The first homeowner shouldn't have paid for the stone at both houses! They should have split the cost if he was going to reuse. And what was he thinking installing the same stuff next door???
-Got caught by a neighbor not installing rebar unde the concrete as stated in the contract. Shady in my opinion.
-Got caught skipping out on footing underneath his pilasters. Footing is needed to keep the pilaster stable and secure.
-This guy does tons of houses in Irvine, but only because he's super cheap. Anytime you have someone that hits volumes like he does, you sacrifice quality and customer service.

As you advised, I tried to solve this issue thru private messages, but bones and studio wanted on public to debate. That's what they wanted.

Even if it is what they wanted...you as a business should understand that you are not going to win a public debate.  This whole sequence of posts has made me think that you are 1) somewhat petty, 2) tough to deal with, and 3) borderline vindictive.  None of those things are good for your business.  In fact, the exchange has further reinforced bone's and studio's posting about you for me.  There is a right and wrong way to resolve disputes with your customers.  You are choosing the wrong way IMO. 

For example, even if you are going to air this out publicly, you should have done it much more politely and with more tact.  Your first post on this board and this issue was a threat to sue.  That's is a pretty bad way to start.