Average age for boys to start 1st grade

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I have two sons and received advice on both sides of the coin regarding my boys because they both have summer birthdays (June & July). I put them in the fall after they turned 5. They are now in 5th & 8th grade, respectively, and though they ARE younger than many of their classmates, they excel academically. One is very popular among peers and the other, not as much, but then he is also intense and a self-professed "nerd." If I had it to do over again, I would do the same. My oldest is about to enter high school, and though he's shorter than many his age, he has a great sense of self. The comments about changed standards are spot on, though! So you have to gauge it by your sons' level of maturity and how well they handle stress. My boys are both pretty extroverted and can be competitive, so in their case, it was a good choice for them. They do have friends that are quite a bit older than they are, and many who are not as mature... so it's definitely an individual decision! As for sports, who knows how much it TRULY helps... but the Irvine parents definitely tend to live life through their kids at times! Just varies by neighborhood (the higher the concentration of social climbers, the higher the concentration of parents that look to their kids for the same!). Good luck with your decision!
 
[quote author="steven" date=1243067577][quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1243049792]I'm curious about your thoughts and/or experiences with starting kindergarten or first grade earlier or later for boys. I'm noticing that many parents here in Irvien are holding off their kids, especially boys to start kindergarten at 6 years old versus 5. Is there any advantage in doing so?</blockquote>


There may be disadvantages:



"Delaying children's entry into school and/or segregating them into extra-year classes actually labels children as failures at the outset of their school experience. These practices are simply subtle forms of retention. Not only is there a preponderance of evidence that there is no academic benefit from retention in its many forms, but there also appear to be threats to the social-emotional development of the child subjected to such practices. The educational community can no longer afford to ignore the consequences of policies and practices which: 1) assign the burden of responsibility to the child, rather than the program; 2) place the child at risk of failure, apathy toward school, and demoralization; and 3) fail to contribute to quality early childhood education."

<a href="http://naecs.crc.uiuc.edu/position/trends2000.html">National Association of Early Childhood Specialists in State Departments of Education</a>



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"A study published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics journal, might support educators who oppose delaying children's entry into kindergarten. Students who are older because they started school late tend to have more behavioral difficulties in adolescence than students who are the average age for the grade, according to research done at the University of Rochester.



"Parents want to keep kids out to give them a leg up on tests," said Dr. Robert S. Byrd, assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Rochester [N.Y.] School of Medicine. "But holding children out of school may not give them any advantage, and may cause problems."

<a href="http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin045.shtml">Starting Kindergarten Late: How Does It Affect School Performance?</a>



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Lots more articles on this page: <a href="http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/kindergarten.htm">Hoagies</a></blockquote>


Thank you for the links!
 
Lots of great posts here... I just find it sad that parents have to worry about their 4/5 year old boy because he may not be age/size/mature appropriate.



Isn't school supposed to be fun too? It's funny that naptime is gone by Kindergarten... I remember still taking naps in 1st grade (maybe even 2nd). Heck... I could use a naptime myself at work on some days.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1243070721]HUGE difference between 4, 5, 6 year olds. Have to agree with Ipop. I guess I'll brag Ipop. My son's Tee-Ball team starts Coach Pitch for the last game of the season and the 3 game tournament (3 pitches, then back to the Tee). He hit a hard line drive straight down the 3rd base line on the first pitch which eventually landed far in the outfield and he ran all the way home, it was pretty cool because his hits off the Tee haven't been that great on average this season.</blockquote>


Very cool, but can he rock the retro high socks look like this?!



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>



:)
 
FWIW, a personal observation.....My nephew is an early November birthday. He attends an academically rigorous LAUSD school (Castlebay Elem in Porter Ranch -- API 920+). My brother and sister-in-law started him in Kinder as soon as he was eligible at 4 years old (turning 5 in Nov). While he made it through K fine, he slipped behind in 1st grade, which is a big step up from K as I understand it. He ultimately ended up being held back after 1st grade, and it was very hard on him after having spent two school years with the same friends.



Looking back, they wish they had held him in preschool another year --- they were on the fence at the time. He is just about to finish is second try at 1st grade next month, and is exceling in his class this year.
 
I don't have kids but I do know what I would do for my kids. If given an option, I would hold my child back as the pros outweigh the cons in my eyes.



I have been good friends with 3 guys who were all a year older than me and in our grade from preschool to high school. While they weren't any better academically, socially and in sports they were always one step ahead. Every year they were a couple inches taller and a little stronger. Even in high school, a year difference can make a big difference. My other friends and I didn't really catch up to them until we were all in college. Of course, not all our friends that were the older ones were in this group as I can now think of one of our friends who was a year older but you wouldn't know it as he wasn't as into sports.



The only con I can think of is they were teased from time to time in elementary school, but by the time they got to Jr. High it was now a compliment and the girls liked it too :)
 
I keep having an image in my head of Billy Madison when I read this thread.



<img src="http://www.gothamgazette.com/graphics/fc.2004.03.15.jpg" alt="" />
 
I think we tend to dummy things down for our kids or just assume they can't handle it without giving them an opportunity to try. When they see something flying in the air we tell them it's a "plane" instead of a DC-10. Yes, I agree school standards have increased. I was surprised when my son started Kindergarten that they were writing journal entries right away. But they do it using their "Kindergarten spelling" a.k.a. phonetics. I think any kid who has a decent preschool background will catch on to this very quickly. In fact a lot of the stuff they did this year was a repeat of what he learned in preschool. In preschool they were already learning how to tell time, how a plant grows, and how to sound out words. If the child is struggling then there is an excellent opportunity to identify which things he needs extra practice on and reinforce it at home. Yes there is still coloring, cutting, and pasting too. It's not Harvard. It's just elementary. Kids go to learn, not to show up knowing everything already. I think us parents lose sight of that sometimes. We become pushy "stage parents" instead. Why not give them the opportunity to discover their own potential. Also utilize school breaks to work together at home. Let's not be lazy this summer. Get some work books, have your child read, sign up for classes this summer - anything to keep their little wheels turning and prepare for the coming school year. (Stepping down off soapbox now.) :)
 
[quote author="CK" date=1243391782]FWIW, a personal observation.....My nephew is an early November birthday. He attends an academically rigorous LAUSD school (Castlebay Elem in Porter Ranch -- API 920+). My brother and sister-in-law started him in Kinder as soon as he was eligible at 4 years old (turning 5 in Nov). While he made it through K fine, he slipped behind in 1st grade, which is a big step up from K as I understand it. He ultimately ended up being held back after 1st grade, and it was very hard on him after having spent two school years with the same friends.



Looking back, they wish they had held him in preschool another year --- they were on the fence at the time. He is just about to finish is second try at 1st grade next month, and is exceling in his class this year.</blockquote>
Thank you for sharing this story.

That was a right thing to do for your relatives and your nephew seems to take it well at the end.

I'm scared to make a decision either way - acadmically he is at and beyond 1st grade level (it's his first year as English speaker as well) socially he is a normal 6 year old boy who happens to be in teh same class with 7 years old kids. Being the youngest puts a lot of pressure on him it seems. If he will repeat 1st grade and stays with his age group he will be owfully bored as he is now at some of the subjects he is too familiar with.
 
[quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1243405785][quote author="CK" date=1243391782]FWIW, a personal observation.....My nephew is an early November birthday. He attends an academically rigorous LAUSD school (Castlebay Elem in Porter Ranch -- API 920+). My brother and sister-in-law started him in Kinder as soon as he was eligible at 4 years old (turning 5 in Nov). While he made it through K fine, he slipped behind in 1st grade, which is a big step up from K as I understand it. He ultimately ended up being held back after 1st grade, and it was very hard on him after having spent two school years with the same friends.



Looking back, they wish they had held him in preschool another year --- they were on the fence at the time. He is just about to finish is second try at 1st grade next month, and is exceling in his class this year.</blockquote>
Thank you for sharing this story.

That was a right thing to do for your relatives and your nephew seems to take it well at the end.

I'm scared to make a decision either way - acadmically he is at and beyond 1st grade level (it's his first year as English speaker as well) socially he is a normal 6 year old boy who happens to be in teh same class with 7 years old kids. Being the youngest puts a lot of pressure on him it seems. If he will repeat 1st grade and stays with his age group he will be owfully bored as he is now at some of the subjects he is too familiar with.</blockquote>


I wouldn't worry about him being bored. My son is in K right now, and his reading level is 2nd grade, and his math is third grade. I did notice that he is always among the first students finishing tasks during the class. While other kids continue their work, he is usually asked to read his own books. He never complained being bored.



From what you described, your son is definitely a smart kid. With involved parents like yourself, his academics is the least thing you need to worry about him.
 
In earlier school years boredom in the classroom is not that big of a deal, however it DOES create problems later. My 5th grader reads at a college level, his math scores were all around the 11th grade-level and is extremely artistic. It has become VERY difficult keeping him engaged in the classroom. He tends to fidget, talk and can be disruptive, which is not fair to the other children in the class. His teacher and I have regular conversations about how to keep him engaged and interested as his attitude towards school had begun to change. (My older son had similar issues, but responded by becoming lazy since it came easy to him, which is now creating other issues as he gets older and into more challenging classes.) So definitely base it on your son's individual needs and SOCIAL age. The fact that he is still learning English will balance the subjects that he has mastered. As for the social aspect, you may want to involve him in a number of extracurricular activities (beyond just sports) so he can meet a variety of children and choose the types of kids he "clicks" with. My youngest will be more challenged once he hits junior high and can take honors classes, but in the meantime - I totally agree with SoCal78 that we tend to dumb down our kids Give them opportunities to rise to the challenge. Truly, parents like the ones on here who truly CARE about these things are going to have great kids. There are variables and we can't be perfect, but I wouldn't look at it out of fear. Plenty of us had some pretty haphazard childhoods and turned out quite well! With parents posting what I have seen on here... our kids are pretty blessed with conscientious parents and will do well. Better to be challenged while at home with a support system then to be shocked by that big world out there later! :)
 
[quote author="jenyfurg" date=1243477938]In earlier school years boredom in the classroom is not that big of a deal, however it DOES create problems later. My 5th grader reads at a college level, his math scores were all around the 11th grade-level and is extremely artistic. It has become VERY difficult keeping him engaged in the classroom. He tends to fidget, talk and can be disruptive, which is not fair to the other children in the class. His teacher and I have regular conversations about how to keep him engaged and interested as his attitude towards school had begun to change. (My older son had similar issues, but responded by becoming lazy since it came easy to him, which is now creating other issues as he gets older and into more challenging classes.) So definitely base it on your son's individual needs and SOCIAL age. The fact that he is still learning English will balance the subjects that he has mastered. As for the social aspect, you may want to involve him in a number of extracurricular activities (beyond just sports) so he can meet a variety of children and choose the types of kids he "clicks" with. My youngest will be more challenged once he hits junior high and can take honors classes, but in the meantime - I totally agree with SoCal78 that we tend to dumb down our kids Give them opportunities to rise to the challenge. Truly, parents like the ones on here who truly CARE about these things are going to have great kids. There are variables and we can't be perfect, but I wouldn't look at it out of fear. Plenty of us had some pretty haphazard childhoods and turned out quite well! With parents posting what I have seen on here... our kids are pretty blessed with conscientious parents and will do well. Better to be challenged while at home with a support system then to be shocked by that big world out there later! :)</blockquote>


If he reads at college level and does math at 11th, why don't you just sign him up for the next SAT and work to get him into college way early? I'm sure some Ivy League schools would love to have a 13-14 year old that tested top 1% on the SAT...
 
[quote author="jenyfurg" date=1243477938](My older son had similar issues, but responded by becoming lazy since it came easy to him, which is now creating other issues as he gets older and into more challenging classes.)</blockquote>
Mom?



Just kidding... but this is what worries me. I would rather have my kid challenged whether it be academically or physically. I don't want school (or sports) to be too easy for them because they are the smartest or biggest in the class because it will lead to laziness/complacency (like I said... this is from experience).



But then again... I don't want them to be frustrated and turned off by school either.



How dare these kids not have instruction manuals when they were born!
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1243478557][quote author="jenyfurg" date=1243477938](My older son had similar issues, but responded by becoming lazy since it came easy to him, which is now creating other issues as he gets older and into more challenging classes.)</blockquote>
Mom?



Just kidding... but this is what worries me. I would rather have my kid challenged whether it be academically or physically. I don't want school (or sports) to be too easy for them because they are the smartest or biggest in the class because it will lead to laziness/complacency (like I said... this is from experience).



But then again... I don't want them to be frustrated and turned off by school either.



How dare these kids not have instruction manuals when they were born!</blockquote>


I wonder if a 5th grade kid that is doing math at an 11th grade level means they are doing Trig? So in another year they could/should be doing Calculus?
 
LOL - he is going to be taking a couple of courses at IVC this summer, but music & art courses. I'm working with a charter program for him and he will be tested to enter college early. We have to get a letter from his school recommending him to take the IVC classes, so on so forth... Because they don't TEACH trig in 5th grade :P he is not. However a friend of mine teaches Algebra at a Jr. College and had him play with some higher level equations (that baffled ME) and he understood the concepts and was "computing appropriately" she said. (Sounded to me like she was referring to my computer, not my son!) But yes, keeping him engaged in class has been interesting. The reading part is easy; I just send him with higher level books than they keep in his class. So, I say challenge our kids more and pull back when they aren't enjoying it! I actually had a couple of teachers (early on) suggest testing him for ADHD and a host of other things because he "couldn't focus" even though his work was always being completed very well. He was bored and antsy - so I wonder in this culture of labeling and diagnosing EVERYthing with our kids, if we just aren't allowing them to be challenged enough (appropriately of course). I'm a single mom who has not been super pushy, and if anything I feel guilty for not getting my boys involved in more, so this is not my doing at all. It is just how he's "built." :)
 
[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1243481820]

I wonder if a 5th grade kid that is doing math at an 11th grade level means they are doing Trig? So in another year they could/should be doing Calculus?</blockquote>


No, they test based on how they "compute" and then they have additional, higher level math problems using concepts they've learned, but at a more complex level to test what to which grade level that equates.
 
[quote author="jenyfurg" date=1243504521]LOL - he is going to be taking a couple of courses at IVC this summer, but music & art courses. I'm working with a charter program for him and he will be tested to enter college early. We have to get a letter from his school recommending him to take the IVC classes, so on so forth... Because they don't TEACH trig in 5th grade :P he is not. However a friend of mine teaches Algebra at a Jr. College and had him play with some higher level equations (that baffled ME) and he understood the concepts and was "computing appropriately" she said. (Sounded to me like she was referring to my computer, not my son!) But yes, keeping him engaged in class has been interesting. The reading part is easy; I just send him with higher level books than they keep in his class. So, I say challenge our kids more and pull back when they aren't enjoying it! I actually had a couple of teachers (early on) suggest testing him for ADHD and a host of other things because he "couldn't focus" even though his work was always being completed very well. He was bored and antsy - so I wonder in this culture of labeling and diagnosing EVERYthing with our kids, if we just aren't allowing them to be challenged enough (appropriately of course). I'm a single mom who has not been super pushy, and if anything I feel guilty for not getting my boys involved in more, so this is not my doing at all. It is just how he's "built." :)</blockquote>


I understand the problem and worry jeny. I was one of those kids that "tested" at 10-11th grade level when I was in 5-6th grade too... I was bored silly in elementary and junior high, despite being in MGM/GATE/Vanguard/whatever accelerated program they could find, but had a creative and analytical outlet in role-playing games. Scary to admit, but I think Dungeons and Dragons helped keep my brain sharp when the academics couldn't. Despite an honors program in high school, AP courses, etc. I was still pretty bored so I occupied myself with doing things I shouldn't (ditching, partying, drugs) and crafting very intelligent ways to escape detection/punishment for my transgressions. I was high for my only SAT sitting but my score was still good enough to get me into almost every place I applied... I knew many very smart kids that were bored in high school that became pot heads and never gave it up.



I wish my parents would have done what you are doing by providing anothe focus area like art or music. Classes at the JC are great too. I took four college classes at a JC during my high school years. My parents never thought of it earlier. If you're not already doing it, team and individual sports would provide a welcome attention area. I think too often parents of children that are gifted focus too purely on core academics. If they are gifted at 10-years old, they'll be gifted when they are 16, 18, 22, etc. Let them use their extra time now to master a language or two, get good at baseball or tennis, or because expert on a musical instrument.
 
[quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1243405785]I'm scared to make a decision either way - acadmically he is at and beyond 1st grade level (it's his first year as English speaker as well) socially he is a normal 6 year old boy who happens to be in teh same class with 7 years old kids. Being the youngest puts a lot of pressure on him it seems. If he will repeat 1st grade and stays with his age group he will be owfully bored as he is now at some of the subjects he is too familiar with.</blockquote>
This happened to us. Boredom in 1st grade caused emotional and social problems for my kid. She lost her love of learning. Once we moved her to a more challenging school, all the problems disappeared.



Every kid is different and some don't fit in well with the lockstep-by-age model most schools rely upon. There's plenty of research that supports acceleration as the best option for some kids. The <a href="http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/Executive_Summary.aspx">Templeton Report</a> is really good.



We also took her to an educational psychologist who tested her and showed us a variety of options. That helped us a lot.
 
[quote author="steven" date=1243557263][quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1243405785]I'm scared to make a decision either way - acadmically he is at and beyond 1st grade level (it's his first year as English speaker as well) socially he is a normal 6 year old boy who happens to be in teh same class with 7 years old kids. Being the youngest puts a lot of pressure on him it seems. If he will repeat 1st grade and stays with his age group he will be owfully bored as he is now at some of the subjects he is too familiar with.</blockquote>
This happened to us. Boredom in 1st grade caused emotional and social problems for my kid. She lost her love of learning. Once we moved her to a more challenging school, all the problems disappeared.



Every kid is different and some don't fit in well with the lockstep-by-age model most schools rely upon. There's plenty of research that supports acceleration as the best option for some kids. The <a href="http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/Executive_Summary.aspx">Templeton Report</a> is really good.



We also took her to an educational psychologist who tested her and showed us a variety of options. That helped us a lot.</blockquote>
Do you have a recommendation for an educational psychologist in Irvine area? I do not think IUSD provides any resources in this regard?
 
Thank you all for your support.

I'm very greatfull that I had a chance to discuss it here and get lots of advices and personal stories from you that helped us to make a decision.

We decided to leave public school system for a year and go to well-recommended private school for a year. We will go to 2nd grade.
 
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