99% Survival rate

[qwerty]

@bones - I wasn?t being defensive, didn?t mean to come across that way. Coming up with analogies isn?t a strength of mine, I don?t have many strengths

If a dodger got pulled out of a World Series game due to a positive result, i could definitely walk out of dinner mid bite if someone got  notified of a positive test.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Yeah... but then he qwertied it and trotted back out onto the field, and took pictures with his teammates without his mask on which resulted in all of them getting quarantined.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@NSR - yeah I know I made the argument about closing bars, doesn?t mean I would agree with it.

I agree with you on the way the initial shutdown should have been handled or future shutdowns. If we wanted to minimize the economic harm of a shutdown the government/Fed should have just halted all payments due to banks and essentially press pause. Without hitting the pause button it created a bigger mismatch of cash coming in vs cash going out for people. The banks are are essentially supported by the Fed/govt anyway because they are too big to fail so they are pseudo nationalized entities anyway.

They could have just provide direct relief to individuals rather than propping up corporations that were already planning on cutting jobs.

 

[Mety]

That's why I said God can use someone like you also to spread gospel. It's just a bit sad that a Christian person says The Bible is not the objective truth in defense of other religions. That's kind of like how Joel Osteen and many others do. Christians should present the gospel as is which does require calling out one's sins and repentance and the inerrancy of The Bible, then let God do the rest to regenerate that person. Of course we can still be friends and be nice and loving while we present all those messages at the same time. It's not like hammer in and out fast.

We've talked about church gathering before. I provided biblical verses to back my position, but I guess you went to Taiwan then and just didn't answer back.

I'm fine with church meeting at someone's home. Except that's not really allowed at this time. You said we can do so by just not calling it a church or worship, but come one, really? Why does strip clubs get to be boldly open without hiding anything while churches have to?

Again...you have a hard time separating your own beliefs from those of others or the world.  The term "objective" as used in the discussion was as to the objective standard of the world.  In God's world, there are no Muslims or non-believers...to have this discussion in the Christian bubble is pointless.  I have my own personal beliefs but that doesn't change the worldly "objective" standard of logic. 

Jesus didn't present the Bible in the fashion you stated most of the time...He spoke in parables and just helped people. You sound like the Pharisees who complained to Jesus about Him just hanging out and eating with non-believers.

Again...my God can thrive in any environment.  Zoom meetings are just as good for me as physical gathering because my faith and belief in God does not require any specific rules or requirements.  I am my own priest with a direct connection to Jesus and God. 

You also keep mischaracterizing my prior statements...you can call it whatever you want as long as it has fewer than 10 people.  Call it a dinner party...call it Church...call it worship.  The issue the number of people congregating...not the purpose.

We can go back and forth as to what the Bible says (and I have quoted you verses in the past) but only one of us actually look at what Jesus, Apostle, and Paul modeled in the New Testament.  They didn't congregate in a set place, they moved around all the time, and they were often separated from each other and/or alone.  Your need for rules and guidelines is pretty interesting considering you are arguing against rules and guidelines re COVID.

BTW...you keep missing the part about how the State of California was opposing the strip club in that case and the judge granted the relief sought by the strip club.  The matter is likely to be appealed and the appellate court will likely overturn it.

You also keep missing the part where the superior court actually granted Grace Church's initial request to reopen but then was overturned on appeal.

You call it the Christian bubble. I call it the truth. If you really cared about others' souls as much as you cared about something that has 2% death rate, you definitely would not call it a bubble.

I told you about this before. Jesus clearly says why He used parables when His disciples asked him since His stories were hard to understand. Jesus' usage of parables was actually a judgment on Pharisees and those who didn't feel the need of Jesus' rebukes and teachings. It was a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy so that even with eyes and ears open, they could not understand the word of God in person. Jesus then explained what his parables meant to His disciples privately.

You keep calling me Pharisees. I'll call you something a little better. You're like Peter when he tried to separate himself from the uncircumcised when Jews were coming. Paul then rebuked Peter of his hypocrisy because Peter was doing that out of fear for Jews while he should have fearless preached his acceptance of even the uncircumcised. You are defending non-believers in offending believers by not saying The Bible is the truth objectively and by saying wrong things like Jesus mostly just helped people. Peter was sorted out by Paul and I'm sure he repented and came back right. I believe you also will.

I never said we had to meet in a set building to be Church. I only said we should not neglect the importance of gathering in person. And The Bible also says so. I only brought up questions since some things were being allowed and places of worship weren't.

 

[Mety]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

 

[Mety]

I would avoid going to Costco between now and Thanksgiving. After the potential Thanksgiving rush then I would go.

But I'm trying to find TP!!!

It amazes me... you would think they would have fixed that supply chain by now.

If you really need some, Home Depot has those. Secret exposed. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You call it the Christian bubble. I call it the truth. If you really cared about others' souls as much as you cared about something that has 2% death rate, you definitely would not call it a bubble.

What?  I feel like I type A...you read B.  Christian bubble refers to how some Christians believe that the world all share in their beliefs and that there is no dispute in the world as to who God is or Christianity.  The world is of Satan...it does not believe in God.  That is a recognition of reality.

I told you about this before. Jesus clearly says why He used parables when His disciples asked him since His stories were hard to understand. Jesus' usage of parables was actually a judgment on Pharisees and those who didn't feel the need of Jesus' rebukes and teachings. It was a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy so that even with eyes and ears open, they could not understand the word of God in person. Jesus then explained what his parables meant to His disciples privately.

I know why Jesus spoke in parable.  His parables were not difficult to understand...they were just hard to decipher if you do not have right mindset.  Jesus did things for multiple reasons...a large part of why He spoke in parables was because they were accessible by the general masses, who had little or no religious learning. 

On the contrary, when He spoke to the Pharisees, He did so with reference to the Old Testaments and Jewish laws to rebuke them on their own grounds.  He did not do so with the general public.

You keep calling me Pharisees. I'll call you something a little better. You're like Peter when he tried to separate himself from the uncircumcised when Jews were coming. Paul then rebuked Peter of his hypocrisy because Peter was doing that out of fear for Jews while he should have fearless preached his acceptance of even the uncircumcised. You are defending non-believers in offending believers by not saying The Bible is the truth objectively and by saying wrong things like Jesus mostly just helped people. Peter was sorted out by Paul and I'm sure he repented and came back right. I believe you also will.

You still don't get it.  The term objective is with reference to the worldly standard.  I am not defending anyone...nor did I say that the Bible is not the truth.  I said that the Bible is not objectively true for non-believers and to try and bring others into the flock requires a lot more than "the Bible is true and therefore you should believe".

We are called to be the light and salt of the world but too much light and too salt can blind and cause people to turn away.  We are told to speak the truth but in love...acknowledging and engaging non-believers in a manner they understand and appreciate is not heretical...its what Jesus did.

I never said we had to meet in a set building to be Church. I only said we should not neglect the importance of gathering in person. And The Bible also says so. I only brought up questions since some things were being allowed and places of worship weren't.

No one is questioning the need to meet...but there is nothing requiring that we need to do so during this time.  Paul spent most of his life alone and in jail...I think he turned out fine spiritually.

 

[bones]

@bones - I wasn?t being defensive, didn?t mean to come across that way. Coming up with analogies isn?t a strength of mine, I don?t have many strengths

If a dodger got pulled out of a World Series game due to a positive result, i could definitely walk out of dinner mid bite if someone got  notified of a positive test.

Calves!  But yea, like IHO said, don?t forget to go back for pie

I?m not trying to change anyone?s mind because we?re way past that but I do like to try to understand people?s motivations. I get trying to live your life but your logic still doesn?t quite make sense to me.  Happy Thanksgiving! Hope no one at your gathering is knowingly or unknowingly  covid positive.

 

[Mety]

You call it the Christian bubble. I call it the truth. If you really cared about others' souls as much as you cared about something that has 2% death rate, you definitely would not call it a bubble.

What?  I feel like I type A...you read B.  Christian bubble refers to how some Christians believe that the world all share in their beliefs and that there is no dispute in the world as to who God is or Christianity.  The world is of Satan...it does not believe in God.  That is a recognition of reality.

I told you about this before. Jesus clearly says why He used parables when His disciples asked him since His stories were hard to understand. Jesus' usage of parables was actually a judgment on Pharisees and those who didn't feel the need of Jesus' rebukes and teachings. It was a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy so that even with eyes and ears open, they could not understand the word of God in person. Jesus then explained what his parables meant to His disciples privately.

I know why Jesus spoke in parable.  His parables were not difficult to understand...they were just hard to decipher if you do not have right mindset.  Jesus did things for multiple reasons...a large part of why He spoke in parables was because they were accessible by the general masses, who had little or no religious learning. 

On the contrary, when He spoke to the Pharisees, He did so with reference to the Old Testaments and Jewish laws to rebuke them on their own grounds.  He did not do so with the general public.

You keep calling me Pharisees. I'll call you something a little better. You're like Peter when he tried to separate himself from the uncircumcised when Jews were coming. Paul then rebuked Peter of his hypocrisy because Peter was doing that out of fear for Jews while he should have fearless preached his acceptance of even the uncircumcised. You are defending non-believers in offending believers by not saying The Bible is the truth objectively and by saying wrong things like Jesus mostly just helped people. Peter was sorted out by Paul and I'm sure he repented and came back right. I believe you also will.

You still don't get it.  The term objective is with reference to the worldly standard.  I am not defending anyone...nor did I say that the Bible is not the truth.  I said that the Bible is not objectively true for non-believers and to try and bring others into the flock requires a lot more than "the Bible is true and therefore you should believe".

We are called to be the light and salt of the world but too much light and too salt can blind and cause people to turn away.  We are told to speak the truth but in love...acknowledging and engaging non-believers in a manner they understand and appreciate is not heretical...its what Jesus did.

I never said we had to meet in a set building to be Church. I only said we should not neglect the importance of gathering in person. And The Bible also says so. I only brought up questions since some things were being allowed and places of worship weren't.

No one is questioning the need to meet...but there is nothing requiring that we need to do so during this time.  Paul spent most of his life alone and in jail...I think he turned out fine spiritually.

I agree with the first part you wrote. The world is of Satan and it does not believe God. I'm glad you know and wrote here.

About the parables. You have to understand. Most people were very religious at the time. Meaning they all knew The Scripture pretty well. That was all there was for people. There was no entertainment like today to kill some time. People, especially Jews talked about God and His words. Of course the religious leaders were there to teach deeply with interpretations and etc, but most common people knew OT pretty well. Even the man who's been blind his whole life until Jesus healed was able to proclaim the correct doctrine to the religious leaders when he was being questioned by Pharisees. The Samaritan woman at the well showed her knowledge of the Scripture. The gentile woman at the table knew of where she stood when she talked about herself compared to dogs. Lazarus and his families were common folks. Even 12 disciples were very common folks, but still showed thorough knowledge of the Scriptures even before meeting with Christ. Therefore Jesus intentionally spoke in a language no one understood. Only the ones who were curious and wanted to know Him more came to ask.

However, there are times He did use stories (probably fictions) as a supporting illustration for better understanding like the prodigal son story. He used stories instead of parables for those. But the clear reason of His usage of parables was a judgment. What more fearful judgment than being able to hear the Son of God speaks and not being able to understand?

I never said proclaim gospel in a rude manner. We can still speak the truth and be kind and loving. Although some people might get angry at the truth since the world is of Satan's. But we still carry the responsibility to proclaim the gospel at all times. Of course with love. With love that is defined by The Bible. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

 

[eyephone]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

It is all good IHO. Btw - Mety wears a mask. He is not a true non masker.

 

[nosuchreality]

It boils down to personal responsibility.

Okay, okay, when I hear that statement in regard to Covid, it?s really no responsibility.  They say it?s personal responsibility but it?s always you stay home if you want, I will do what I want and refuse to acknowledge it?s impacts on the things I want.

 

[eyephone]

It boils down to personal responsibility.

Okay, okay, when I hear that statement in regard to Covid, it?s really no responsibility.  They say it?s personal responsibility but it?s always you stay home if you want, I will do what I want and refuse to acknowledge it?s impacts on the things I want.

We are repeating our previous history. Woodrow Wilson the US President got the 1918 flu and also played down the pandemic.

 

[Mety]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

'Tis the time you could use a parable, perhaps? ;D

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying there follows a belief system with logic behind for everyone. You can't say "I follow logic, therefore I'm right." There cannot be such statement. At least for me...  

 

[Mety]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

It is all good IHO. Btw - Mety wears a mask. He is not a true non masker.

You riight, I ain't no true non masker. I ain't someone like Gavin Newsom. ;D

 

[qwerty]

I get trying to live your life but your logic still doesn?t quite make sense to me.

True genius is never fully appreciated in its time

Happy thanksgiving to you as well!

 

[StarmanMBA]

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying there follows a belief system with logic behind for everyone. You can't say "I follow logic, therefore I'm right." There cannot be such statement. At least for me...

Leftists do this relentlessly: "I'm logical, I'm rational, I'm scientific, I'm smarter than you, so if you have the temerity to disagree with ME, you are :::sniff::: unbearably stupid and wrong."

In another thread, I posed a brain teaser which makes the point very elegantly and I think, convincingly, that even when people all have the same information which will provide a definite conclusion,  all of them cannot and will not arrive at that conclusion.  Some refute it even after it has been explained to them.  Emotions and pride often drive wrong-headed conclusions, such as tens of millions of Democrats cheering and voting for Joe Briben and Kamala Quid Blow Quo Ho.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

'Tis the time you could use a parable, perhaps? ;D

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying there follows a belief system with logic behind for everyone. You can't say "I follow logic, therefore I'm right." There cannot be such statement. At least for me...

I did not say right or wrong. I just follow the data.

The virus can kill people, use safety protocols.

Simple.

 

[Mety]

@Mety:

There is still a disconnect. What you believe or choose is not the same as logic.

Let me make it easy.

Covid death rate is about 2%. That is the fact and logic.

eyephone then believes Trump messed up for that much of fatality. morekaos then believes Newsom is dumb by closing down everything with that small of a percentage.

Both eyephone and morekaos had no choice but to choose something to believe out of the logic.

You say you don't take either parties' views and stay only in logic. There is 2% death rate. You've been saying what should be and shouldn't be done based on that logic. You might not have chosen a particular party's take, but you have chosen something to believe after knowing the truth. So you can't say you're logical and not believe at the same time. You have no choice but to believe something from logic. They go hand in hand if you're a human with a thinking process.

Again, you are not making the connection.

You are using "believe"... but that's not what logic is about. You're mixing "logic" as a "belief system" rather than what is the actual facts and the logical outcome. Try to reform what you wrote in the context of actuals rather than opinions/beliefs.

I should stop trying to explain.

'Tis the time you could use a parable, perhaps? ;D

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying there follows a belief system with logic behind for everyone. You can't say "I follow logic, therefore I'm right." There cannot be such statement. At least for me...

I did not say right or wrong. I just follow the data.

The virus can kill people, use safety protocols.

Simple.

Ok, then you're saying you're open to admit you could be wrong. That's good to know. Thanks.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

If you think protecting public health is wrong... that's your "belief".