$825 Billion Stimulus Plan

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="trrenter" date=1233887927]

ACORN is the first non profit Community Redevelopment that comes to mind.

</blockquote>


Why does it matter which group comes to your mind first?



I suggest they are the first that comes to your mind because conservatives make a stink about them. And then turn around and use this self-generated publicity against them. Are you familiar with this field? How many other similar groups can you name? If it wasn't for the conservative stink over ACORN this past election, would anyone have even heard of <strong>them</strong>?



I've done a lot of event and fund-raising work with Habitat for Humanity. They could qualify for the money. They are the first group that came to my mind.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1233905199]what ties does ACORN have to Obama? can you provide a link to an unbiased (ie not heritage, et al) source?</blockquote>


You guys are killing me. You do understand I am not a right wing conservative card carying Bush lover right.



This is the problem with our country that nobody can find a right common ground.



ARe you denying that there were any direct ties from Obama to Acorn?



NY times article.



<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/us/politics/11acorn.html?ref=us">Obman and Acorn</a>



Then I also believe ACORN endorsed Obama and donated to his campaign.



I am sure there are more ties but who cares.



The point is if money goes to them it could look improper. Unless of course Obama never heard of ACORN before.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1233906024]

The point is if money goes to them it could look improper. Unless of course Obama never heard of ACORN before.</blockquote>


I get ya. If all (most?) of the money goes to ACORN, then there is definitely a problem. If a small part does, I don't see the problem. With that much money, it might even be weird to have none of it go to them.



One of my pet peeves is how we all worry about money going to some group that has ties to a politician. How can it not? So many groups give money to so many politicians. A lot of groups give money to politicians in both parties. I guess the problem is that there is this big gray area between obviously okay and obviously bad.
 
[quote author="T!m" date=1233905842][quote author="trrenter" date=1233887927]

ACORN is the first non profit Community Redevelopment that comes to mind.

</blockquote>


Why does it matter which group comes to your mind first?



I suggest they are the first that comes to your mind because conservatives make a stink about them. And then turn around and use this self-generated publicity against them. Are you familiar with this field? How many other similar groups can you name? If it wasn't for the conservative stink over ACORN this past election, would anyone have even heard of <strong>them</strong>?



I've done a lot of event and fund-raising work with Habitat for Humanity. They could qualify for the money. They are the first group that came to my mind.</blockquote>


If Acorn gets money from this there can be a perception of impropriety, I don't think the same could be said for habitat of humanity. That's why it matters to me. I can't be sure if it is improper or not so I would rather all doubt be removed by not allowing Acorn the money.



<blockquote><strong>ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, working together for social justice and stronger communities. </strong></blockquote>


ACORN touts themselves as the largest as well so maybe that is why people hear about them.



This Stimulus stinks. The more you look at it the more it stinks. Pointing out that ACORN is position to get some money out of this as well brings Obama lovers out to say none of that matters.



None of that being whatever is being critisized.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1233911130][quote author="awgee" date=1233910863]Does Habitat for Humanity take gov money?</blockquote>


Yes</blockquote>


Thanks GC.



Just got this from HFHI's website:



<em>How does Habitat work with the government?

Habitat for Humanity International welcomes partnerships with governments that include accepting funds and other resources to help provide houses for God?s children in need, provided these partnerships do not limit our ability to demonstrate the love and teachings of Jesus Christ, and further provided that affiliates do not become dependent on or controlled by government funds or other funding sources. Local Habitat for Humanity affiliates or Habitat for Humanity International may adopt more specific guidelines as deemed necessary to avoid such dependence or control.

</em>
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1233911562][quote author="green_cactus" date=1233911130][quote author="awgee" date=1233910863]Does Habitat for Humanity take gov money?</blockquote>


Yes</blockquote>


Thanks GC.



Just got this from HFHI's website:



<em>How does Habitat work with the government?

Habitat for Humanity International welcomes partnerships with governments that include accepting funds and other resources to help provide houses for God?s children in need, provided these partnerships do not limit our ability to demonstrate the love and teachings of Jesus Christ, and further provided that affiliates do not become dependent on or controlled by government funds or other funding sources. Local Habitat for Humanity affiliates or Habitat for Humanity International may adopt more specific guidelines as deemed necessary to avoid such dependence or control.

</em></blockquote>


Just look at HUD grants. For example, in Oct 2007 HFHI got $8.4mn. It's not THAT hard to google something.:P
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1233911562][quote author="green_cactus" date=1233911130][quote author="awgee" date=1233910863]Does Habitat for Humanity take gov money?</blockquote>


Yes</blockquote>


Thanks GC.



Just got this from HFHI's website:



<em>How does Habitat work with the government?

Habitat for Humanity International welcomes partnerships with governments that include accepting funds and other resources to help provide houses for God?s children in need, provided these partnerships do not limit our ability to demonstrate the love and teachings of Jesus Christ, and further provided that affiliates do not become dependent on or controlled by government funds or other funding sources. Local Habitat for Humanity affiliates or Habitat for Humanity International may adopt more specific guidelines as deemed necessary to avoid such dependence or control.

</em></blockquote>


Looking at their annual report, they got $20.9mn from government grants in 2007 and looks like $20mn in 2008.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1233906024][quote author="freedomCM" date=1233905199]what ties does ACORN have to Obama? can you provide a link to an unbiased (ie not heritage, et al) source?</blockquote>


You guys are killing me. You do understand I am not a right wing conservative card carying Bush lover right.



This is the problem with our country that nobody can find a right common ground.



ARe you denying that there were any direct ties from Obama to Acorn?



NY times article.



<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/us/politics/11acorn.html?ref=us">Obman and Acorn</a>



Then I also believe ACORN endorsed Obama and donated to his campaign.



I am sure there are more ties but who cares.



The point is if money goes to them it could look improper. Unless of course Obama never heard of ACORN before.</blockquote>


They also registered several Disney characters in various states that ended up voting for Obama...
 
<span style="color: red;">Please note that the bill doesn't give money to ACORN as such. That's just the spin...read it carefully</span>





<strong>Republicans say voter registration and community groups like ACORN could be eligible for funding under the Democrats' economic stimulus bill.</strong>



Republican lawmakers are raising concerns that ACORN, the low-income advocacy group under investigation for voter registration fraud, <strong>could be eligible </strong>for billions in aid from the economic stimulus proposal working its way through the House.



House Republican Leader John Boehner issued a statement over the weekend noting that the stimulus bill wending its way through Congress provides $4.19 billion for <span style="color: red;">"neighborhood stabilization activities." </span>



He said the money was previously limited to state and local governments, but that Democrats now want part of it to be available to non-profit entities. That means <strong>groups like ACORN </strong>would be eligible for a portion of the funds.
 
<em>"This week President Obama claimed that failure to pass his economic stimulus bill will have catastrophic consequences for the U.S economy. The reality is the catastrophe will be far greater with his plan than without it. If the trends of January and early February of 2009 continue, the rug will be completely pulled out from beneath the U.S. economy, and the full cost of the President's "economic depressant package" will be apparent to all."</em>



- Peter Schiff
 
I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233998990]I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.</blockquote>


What percentage of GDP is it?
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233998990]I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.</blockquote>


I think the senate lowered it to $765,000,000,000. At 3.5 mil optimistically projected created jobs, that is over $218,000 per job.



For any of you out there who think that creating 3.5 million jobs is a good thing, do you think this spending borrowed non-existent money package is the way to create 3.5 mil jobs?



IMO, this plan will "create" less than 500,000 temporary jobs.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1234001432][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233998990]I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.</blockquote>


What percentage of GDP is it?</blockquote>


15.5% of GDP.

Not including the $700 bil TARP.

and not including the trillions the Fed has created and used to "stimulate" the economy.
 
<em>How does Habitat work with the government?

Habitat for Humanity International welcomes partnerships with governments that include accepting funds and other resources to help provide houses for <strong>God?s children</strong> in need, <strong>provided these partnerships do not limit our ability to demonstrate the love and teachings of Jesus Christ</strong>, and further provided that affiliates do not become dependent on or controlled by government funds or other funding sources. Local Habitat for Humanity affiliates or Habitat for Humanity International may adopt more specific guidelines as deemed necessary to avoid such dependence or control.</em>



Did you say the gov gives them funds ?



Wow, I had no idea it was a thumper organization....I had considered donating and/or helping in one of their projects. No mas.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1234002264][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233998990]I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.</blockquote>


I think the senate lowered it to $765,000,000,000. At 3.5 mil optimistically projected created jobs, that is over $218,000 per job.



For any of you out there who think that creating 3.5 million jobs is a good thing, do you think this spending borrowed non-existent money package is the way to create 3.5 mil jobs?



IMO, this plan will "create" less than 500,000 temporary jobs.</blockquote>


It's not fair to just divide the amount by # of jobs created. There are tangible results that arise from this "investment". This needs to be factored in - for example, what is the value of a bridge or a road that gets built? It's still going to end up in an obscene amount either way.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1234002509][quote author="green_cactus" date=1234001432][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233998990]I don't what you expect for $8400/tax filer...



Yes folks, that's what $925,000,000,000.00 comes out to, $8400 for every individual income tax return filed.</blockquote>


What percentage of GDP is it?</blockquote>


15.5% of GDP.

Not including the $700 bil TARP.

and not including the trillions the Fed has created and used to "stimulate" the economy.</blockquote>


Are you sure about this number? I keep on hearing that it is closer to 2% and as such too small to make a difference. I'm just bracing myself for the next "stimulus package" to get closer to the percentage of GDP that is supposed to make a difference. At least, that is what some economists are arguing for and there are loud voices calling for a much larger package.
 
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