JLegend_IHB
New member
I visited 3000 the Plaza at one of their open houses, and here are a few of my thoughts. Prices for the units are from mid-$600,000 for the "A" Plan and to over 2 million for the penthouses. Things in between are around low to mid $1 million.
As an initial matter, I would estimate that for someone (or a couple) to qualify for the smaller plans in the mid-600K to $800K range, one would have to have a decent amount saved up for the down payment and a yearly salary of about $200K or more. I think the floor plans for the 3000 building are generally nicer than the first two towers. The only drawback is that residents of the 3000 tower cannot use the amenities of the first two towers, since they have different HOAs. So the rooftop pool of the 3000 is smaller, but not big deal if one isn't an avid swimmer anyway. I was underwhelmed by the 3000's workout facility which is on the terrace level of the building. The workout facilities for the first two towers, which are shared, are much nicer. On the other hand, there are only 105 units in the 3000 building, so you are dealing with less residents anyway.
I was impressed by the overall quality of the 3000 tower. Surprisingly, the small things make a big difference. It was very well thought out. All units come with Viking appliances (except for a washer/dryer). The media areas are prewired. Units come with recessed lighting. Walls are hand troweled rather than blasted by a machine, so walls have a nice texture. The front doors are heavy, substantial wood doors. The hallways are quite large and don't have a hotel-type feel. The lobby, although small, is beautifully decorated. Adjoining unit walls are double thick and floors and ceiling are 8" concrete.
So the next question is whether it is "worth it." I will limit my discussion to the units that are less than $1 million, because I think the approach, calculus and perspective changes when one has the money to afford the million and up units. With respect to the HOA dues, my understanding is that it is based on size of unit. Now, HOA dues are priced at high $800 for the A plans and up to $1000 for the smaller 2 bedroom plans, with square footage in the high 1300 - 1700, I think. This includes all amenities, cable (not sure the extent of the package, maybe just basic), internet, water, tele land line, but not electricity. I understand that many places in Costa Mesa, Irvine and Tustin, whether SFRs, townhomes or condos generally have HOA that ranges from $200-$350, and on top of that some communities add Mello Roos. The Plaza has no additional Mello Roos. Adding the cost of at least cable, internet, and other utilites for these types of homes gets your monthly to $400-$550 conservatively (not sure if Mello Roos would add even more). The way I see it, if your HOA is $900-$1000, you are paying about $500, maybe $600 for a "luxury" lifestyle. Whether that premium is worth it, is up to the individual, but certainly not "insane," or "stupid" as some people make it out to be.
What about the purchase price? Again, assuming one is looking in the areas of Costa Mesa, Irvine and Tustin, many "comparable" condos are still in the $500-600K range (I use quotes for comparable, because I really have not seen a move-in ready unit as nice as the Plaza, but for arguments sake, considering similar square footage). I saw a townhouse in Costa Mesa (about 1900 sq. ft) near the back bay as a short sale for $630K. Sure the HOA was only $200, but this place was 20 years old, the deck over looking the back bay was falling apart and needed to be replaced, it was noisy and all windows also needed to be replaced. The kitchen cabinets were also a wreck. I'm thinking this place needed at least an additional $40K of work, and it's still 20 years old! You can obviously find a unit cheaper than what is offered at 3000, but I assure you it would not be as nicely finished, won't have Viking appliances, and similar amenities. I see units in Turtle Ridge going for at least $600K.
With 3000 The Plaza, we're talking about a brand new build. There is still opportunity to reduce the builder's asking price, asking for help with HOAs (have it covered for a certain amount of time), asking for upgrades or maybe even have closing costs paid. Certainly things one wouldn't get buying resells.
3000 isn't an "investment property." Hardly anything, if at all, in OC would be. This is a place to live. I can't see how someone would not love coming home to a place there (unless you have punk neighbors). Whether one can sell a place like this in 3-8 years remains to be seen. It only takes one sucker greater than you to sell the place. Admittedly, the market for these types of units is pretty small, but there are plenty of law firms, doctors offices and successful people in the area to be in that market. It might take some time to sell a place, but I can't imagine one losing much, if at all in the 3-8 year range. Asking for 5% annual appreciation might be asking for much, but really, who knows? If one is set on getting an SFR, you'll likely be deep in Tustin, and people inclined for SFRs wouldn't be looking at the Plaza anyway. The Plaza is close enough to Newport Beach and not deep in Irvine. It's nice and quite, and does not have the cookie cutter feel.
Overall, I'm highly considering it because I can afford it, and I think I would enjoy coming home every night after a hard days work.
As an initial matter, I would estimate that for someone (or a couple) to qualify for the smaller plans in the mid-600K to $800K range, one would have to have a decent amount saved up for the down payment and a yearly salary of about $200K or more. I think the floor plans for the 3000 building are generally nicer than the first two towers. The only drawback is that residents of the 3000 tower cannot use the amenities of the first two towers, since they have different HOAs. So the rooftop pool of the 3000 is smaller, but not big deal if one isn't an avid swimmer anyway. I was underwhelmed by the 3000's workout facility which is on the terrace level of the building. The workout facilities for the first two towers, which are shared, are much nicer. On the other hand, there are only 105 units in the 3000 building, so you are dealing with less residents anyway.
I was impressed by the overall quality of the 3000 tower. Surprisingly, the small things make a big difference. It was very well thought out. All units come with Viking appliances (except for a washer/dryer). The media areas are prewired. Units come with recessed lighting. Walls are hand troweled rather than blasted by a machine, so walls have a nice texture. The front doors are heavy, substantial wood doors. The hallways are quite large and don't have a hotel-type feel. The lobby, although small, is beautifully decorated. Adjoining unit walls are double thick and floors and ceiling are 8" concrete.
So the next question is whether it is "worth it." I will limit my discussion to the units that are less than $1 million, because I think the approach, calculus and perspective changes when one has the money to afford the million and up units. With respect to the HOA dues, my understanding is that it is based on size of unit. Now, HOA dues are priced at high $800 for the A plans and up to $1000 for the smaller 2 bedroom plans, with square footage in the high 1300 - 1700, I think. This includes all amenities, cable (not sure the extent of the package, maybe just basic), internet, water, tele land line, but not electricity. I understand that many places in Costa Mesa, Irvine and Tustin, whether SFRs, townhomes or condos generally have HOA that ranges from $200-$350, and on top of that some communities add Mello Roos. The Plaza has no additional Mello Roos. Adding the cost of at least cable, internet, and other utilites for these types of homes gets your monthly to $400-$550 conservatively (not sure if Mello Roos would add even more). The way I see it, if your HOA is $900-$1000, you are paying about $500, maybe $600 for a "luxury" lifestyle. Whether that premium is worth it, is up to the individual, but certainly not "insane," or "stupid" as some people make it out to be.
What about the purchase price? Again, assuming one is looking in the areas of Costa Mesa, Irvine and Tustin, many "comparable" condos are still in the $500-600K range (I use quotes for comparable, because I really have not seen a move-in ready unit as nice as the Plaza, but for arguments sake, considering similar square footage). I saw a townhouse in Costa Mesa (about 1900 sq. ft) near the back bay as a short sale for $630K. Sure the HOA was only $200, but this place was 20 years old, the deck over looking the back bay was falling apart and needed to be replaced, it was noisy and all windows also needed to be replaced. The kitchen cabinets were also a wreck. I'm thinking this place needed at least an additional $40K of work, and it's still 20 years old! You can obviously find a unit cheaper than what is offered at 3000, but I assure you it would not be as nicely finished, won't have Viking appliances, and similar amenities. I see units in Turtle Ridge going for at least $600K.
With 3000 The Plaza, we're talking about a brand new build. There is still opportunity to reduce the builder's asking price, asking for help with HOAs (have it covered for a certain amount of time), asking for upgrades or maybe even have closing costs paid. Certainly things one wouldn't get buying resells.
3000 isn't an "investment property." Hardly anything, if at all, in OC would be. This is a place to live. I can't see how someone would not love coming home to a place there (unless you have punk neighbors). Whether one can sell a place like this in 3-8 years remains to be seen. It only takes one sucker greater than you to sell the place. Admittedly, the market for these types of units is pretty small, but there are plenty of law firms, doctors offices and successful people in the area to be in that market. It might take some time to sell a place, but I can't imagine one losing much, if at all in the 3-8 year range. Asking for 5% annual appreciation might be asking for much, but really, who knows? If one is set on getting an SFR, you'll likely be deep in Tustin, and people inclined for SFRs wouldn't be looking at the Plaza anyway. The Plaza is close enough to Newport Beach and not deep in Irvine. It's nice and quite, and does not have the cookie cutter feel.
Overall, I'm highly considering it because I can afford it, and I think I would enjoy coming home every night after a hard days work.
