Woodbridge, Oak Creek, and more

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popak_IHB

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First time home buyer here who has learned a lot from all the knowledge on the forum. We're hoping we get some advice from local experts here.



We (family of 3) are looking to move to Irvine, primarily, for the great schools in Irvine. We have checked out many houses with our realtor from Westpark to Portola Springs and, so far, prefer the Woodbridge and Oak Creek neighborhoods. The houses there are older but seem to have character and charm, whereas, the other neighborhoods seem newer but also kinda cookie-cutter (like Northwood, Woodbury, and even Westpark). The low mello roos are also a plus.



1- I understand this is very subjective but what do you guys think about these neighborhoods? We've read the great write-ups by IrvineRenter on <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-woodbridge/">Woodbridge</a> and <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-oak-creek/">Oak Creek</a>. But any other (and more recent) advice that you may have is appreciated.



2 What is the deal about the Loop in Woodbridge? All the places we have checked out there are way pricier than the surrounding neighborhoods. I understand that they are close to the lake but are $390+/sf houses really warranted?



3- We saw a couple of places close to South Lake Middle School in Woodbridge in January that were inside the Loop. We did not get a chance to check these out during school rush hours so not sure if it gets congested or noisy and if that affects quality of life in houses around. Does anyone who lives close to this school or others have any advice on this? We're trying to figure out if it's a good or bad thing to be so close to a school.



4- Come to think of it, we have seen many other houses (in the $700k-800k range) that are also $375+/sf in Oak Creek and Westpark. Some of these are nicely upgraded but sellers can't possibly expect to sell at that price if the comps don't support them. Do we just wait these sellers out or offer at the comp price and hope for the best. Don't want to offend any sellers, I guess.



5- We also saw a few houses in Columbus Grove that we liked. But the mello roos (plus water bonds) on these are $5,000/year or more. Why would anyone buy in Columbus Grove at current prices with such high mello roos. Are we missing something here?



By the way, for us, renting is certainly an option and we may actually end up doing that. But just wanted to see if the housing market in Irvine was any better. I mean, if we found a nice place we liked for $300-325/sf, it may actually be worth it (according to the Rent or Buy calculators).



Thanks in advance for all the help! Sorry about the general questions, but we are quite anxious as this is our first time through this process.
 
Welcome to the forum boards...



I'd ask myself these questions to try to help and bring some salience:



1. If you are considering purchasing, why is <strong>now </strong>the time for you?

2. What are your requirements (needs, as opposed to wants) in a home?

3. What indicators do you see that signal to you that buying won't be better in the future?

4. As an alternative, will a rental/lease property allow you to fulfill your needs and additionally help you "try before you buy?"



I'm not being snide in asking these questions. If you'd like help in those neighborhoods, I'm sure that I could be of service.

In any event, good luck and thank you for sharing.



-IR2
 
[quote author="popak" date=1237296428]First time home buyer here who has learned a lot from all the knowledge on the forum. We're hoping we get some advice from local experts here.



We (family of 3) are looking to move to Irvine, primarily, for the great schools in Irvine. We have checked out many houses with our realtor from Westpark to Portola Springs and, so far, prefer the Woodbridge and Oak Creek neighborhoods. The houses there are older but seem to have character and charm, whereas, the other neighborhoods seem newer but also kinda cookie-cutter (like Northwood, Woodbury, and even Westpark). The low mello roos are also a plus.



1- I understand this is very subjective but what do you guys think about these neighborhoods? We've read the great write-ups by IrvineRenter on <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-woodbridge/">Woodbridge</a> and <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-oak-creek/">Oak Creek</a>. But any other (and more recent) advice that you may have is appreciated.



2 What is the deal about the Loop in Woodbridge? All the places we have checked out there are way pricier than the surrounding neighborhoods. I understand that they are close to the lake but are $390+/sf houses really warranted?



3- We saw a couple of places close to South Lake Middle School in Woodbridge in January that were inside the Loop. We did not get a chance to check these out during school rush hours so not sure if it gets congested or noisy and if that affects quality of life in houses around. Does anyone who lives close to this school or others have any advice on this? We're trying to figure out if it's a good or bad thing to be so close to a school.



4- Come to think of it, we have seen many other houses (in the $700k-800k range) that are also $375+/sf in Oak Creek and Westpark. Some of these are nicely upgraded but sellers can't possibly expect to sell at that price if the comps don't support them. Do we just wait these sellers out or offer at the comp price and hope for the best. Don't want to offend any sellers, I guess.



5- We also saw a few houses in Columbus Grove that we liked. But the mello roos (plus water bonds) on these are $5,000/year or more. Why would anyone buy in Columbus Grove at current prices with such high mello roos. Are we missing something here?



By the way, for us, renting is certainly an option and we may actually end up doing that. But just wanted to see if the housing market in Irvine was any better. I mean, if we found a nice place we liked for $300-325/sf, it may actually be worth it (according to the Rent or Buy calculators).



Thanks in advance for all the help! Sorry about the general questions, but we are quite anxious as this is our first time through this process.</blockquote>




I'm in the same boat as you. Currently have a family of 3 and we really like the Woodbridge/Oak Creek areas. We currently live in Brittany which is a TIC apartment complex within Oak Creek. We aren't planning on buying until probably 2011 or so to wait it out and I am still in graduate school.



1. We like both neighborhoods quite a bit. I have been favoring the Woodbridge area, particularly the southwest corner because you have the elementary, middle and high school all close by. I find this is important so as our daughter grows up and any future kids that everything will be close by. Oak Creek is pretty nice as well, newer, different design and there is an elementary school in there as well. I tend to prefer the Woodbridge area as it seems to be a little cozier for a family. Some things to consider is that Woodbridge is a little older so some added deferred maintenance, but I noticed HOAs tend to be a little cheaper so it depends.



2. Price wise the loop is a little nuts right now. The values went up here during the bubble like any other area. There are actually some foreclosures going on even in the higher end homes (1 million or so) so prices will fall. I have been tracking the MLS and Redfin regularly in these areas and I keep seeing new homes/condos popping for sale each week. IMO, you wouldn't be selling right now unless you were distressed (there are exceptions though). Its a nice area but I agree that the price per square foot is not warranted. How far it will fall, who really knows but I keep hearing roughly 1997-98 prices or so. If this were to happen it would make sense as this was before the tech bubble.



3. I had a chance to check out the loop during peak times when school was about to start. I noticed they had about 3 crossing guards in the southern loop part. It was a little congested but as long as you are not in a huge rush it didn't seem to be too much of a problem.



4. We personally are waiting out the sellers. One, because of grad school for me and a newborn, but second, the prices are too high and will come down. It does not fundamentally make sense to pay $800 k for a house that was selling around $350 k before the bubble (pure economic fundamentals just disappeared). Some homes I found tripled their value in less then ten years, nuts.



5. I am not familiar with Columbus Grove at all, but I keep hearing negative things about it (anyone feel free to chime in).



Hope this helps.
 
If you are still unsure of the area, and this is a long term thing for you, I'd rent for a little while and get to know the areas, schools, shopping and eats a little better before purchasing a home.
 
Use the search box to type in the name of the communitiy you are curious about, there are nice write ups on various Irvine communities



ex. If you type in "Oak Creek" you find <A href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-oak-creek/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/irvines-oak-creek/</A>
 
popak:



Just by the amount of questions you have and the uncertainty of the current economy... I highly recommend renting.



You can find a rental near South Lake Middle School to give you an idea of how congestion would be or find a place in Oak Creek to see how that neighborhood is.



In my opinion:



Woodbridge

1. More mature neighborhood

2. Older home styles

3. Lakes

4. No Mello Roos



Oak Creek

1. Newer neighborhood (built in 99)

2. Stucco type homes

3. Gated

4. Mello Roos



I think Woodbridge has more character but it is dated. I don't really like gated communities but some people feel more secure... and Oak Creek is newer.



One thing that may affect you, North Lake has the TCE plume under it. Irvine is supposed to be taking care of it but it's something you should know.
 
I have owned a home in Woodbridge for a long time and we really like it here for many of the same reasons you mention. The downside of Woodbridge are the older style floor plans (its nearly impossible to find a "great room" layout that we like) and relatively small yards. But the parks/pools/lakes are pretty hard to match in my opinion. We also feel a great sense of community here and like the 4th of July parades, concerts/movies at the lake, and the ability to walk to the grocery store and/or to Ruby's diner for breakfast. We have great neighbors, the kids play outside in our cul-de-sac, and as you pointed out the elementary school, middle school and High School are a short walk (we live near the South Lake).



We've been keeping an eye on the market as well, and the inventory has been very low for single family homes, but this will probably increase this spring. Many people who love in Woodbridge have been here for a long time and if they don't need to sell in this environment they are not selling. And prices have come down a little, but less than I'd like (probably because of the low supply of detached homes on the market). I would highly recommend renting for a year or two and watching prices continue to drop - there are some pretty good deals on homes if you look on Craigslist. Why pay $4,000 per month for a mortgage, property tax, association dues, etc., when you can rent the same home for $2,500 per month?



And the inside vs. outside the loop situation is pretty funny - much like Turtle Rock there does seem to be a premium for being "inside the loop." Some of this is warranted, since the homes outside the loop are closer to the 405, Culver, Jeffrey and Irvine Center and have some more noise/traffic (especially the homes close to the 405), but some if this is also just snobbery.



Good luck with your search!
 
Thank you all for the quick replies.



We are certainly not in a rush to buy. One of the reasons we are considering buying now is because we are pre-approved based on my self-employed income and wife's W-2 income. My wife will likely be leaving her W-2 job in July (due to a newborn around then) but will be back to work in September/October. Most lenders make it somewhat harder to get a loan if you are in a new job (even if it's in the same industry). For other family reasons, we have to move down to Orange County in July/August anyway, so that's just one more push to look for a house now. We are taking great pains to ensure that we can afford our mortgage and other expenses on only one of our incomes. Plus, we have enough reserves (after down payment) to cover mortgage/expenses for 2.5 years if both of us are out of a job for that long. So we are not overstretching ourselves to get into a house <strong>now</strong> and are open to renting unless we can get a good deal on our dream house (tall order, I know) :)



IrvineRealtor/frank69m, thanks for the insights. Yes, we have asked ourselves those questions. I think I've explained most of our reasoning above but, as you suggest, are keeping renting/leasing as an option.



Bling Bling, yeah, we certainly are in the same situation. For the school peak hours, what did you think about noise levels? I'm more worried about hearing bells and recess and kids playing all the time in our house more than traffic congestion.



irvine_home_owner, yes, we are aware of the TCE plume and actually have some engineer friends in LA who are aware of the issue in Irvine. All of them mentioned that it's not dangerous to live on top of the plume because it is so far underground (no fumes et cetera to worry about). They said, unless we're planning to dig a very very deep hole in our backyard, it should not be an issue. So, we're keeping an eye on where the plume is, but it's probably not a huge factor in where we buy a house.



Thank you
 
[quote author="Chuck" date=1237334033] We have great neighbors, the kids play outside in our cul-de-sac, and as you pointed out the elementary school, middle school and High School are a short walk (we live near the South Lake).</blockquote>


Chuck --- Are there many younger (Elem school) aged children around Woodbridge? I've always liked that community, but avoided as we figured it would be an area where most of the kids are now HS/College age --- so our Elem child would not have many playmates in the neighborhood. Just last weekend we went to a 6 yr old B-day party at Echo Run Park (which is fantastic I might add) --- and except for the b-day party the place was deserted. Even the kids at the party were all from other parts of Irvine, the only reason the party was there is the child's grandfather lives in Woodbridge.



Just curious....maybe my perception of Woodbridge as having mostly grown children is off. Thanks.
 
FWIW-

We rent a SFR in Woodbridge's North Lake location. My kids are 4 and 6. There are VERY few younger kids in the neighborhood and that's one of the reasons why I most likely won't buy here. I love the location, but the floorplans are outdated and the houses are aging.



As an example- each Halloween I get VERY few trick or treaters. And those that do come are probably kids too old to be trick or treating. That's when I realized I live in a very mature neighborhood.
 
[quote author="JoonB" date=1237348418]As an example- each Halloween I get VERY few trick or treaters. And those that do come are probably kids too old to be trick or treating. That's when I realized I live in a very mature neighborhood.</blockquote>
Yep... that's what I meant by mature... more in terms of who lives there rather than the area itself.



I experienced the same thing when living in Woodbridge... Halloween always had almost no visitors other than the 1 or 2 immediate neighbors... but when we were in WestPark II... big difference.



But WB is still is a nice area to live in... and the bigger homes nearer to the lakes have decent floorplans although they are a bit outdated. I can think of a few features they have that newer homes don't like multi-level first floor (sunken living room and/or family room), wet bars, bonus rooms and vaulted ceilings. But then you give up an upstairs laundry room, a great room or a massive kitchen island.
 
[quote author="CK" date=1237347313][quote author="Chuck" date=1237334033] We have great neighbors, the kids play outside in our cul-de-sac, and as you pointed out the elementary school, middle school and High School are a short walk (we live near the South Lake).</blockquote>


Chuck --- Are there many younger (Elem school) aged children around Woodbridge? I've always liked that community, but avoided as we figured it would be an area where most of the kids are now HS/College age --- so our Elem child would not have many playmates in the neighborhood. Just last weekend we went to a 6 yr old B-day party at Echo Run Park (which is fantastic I might add) --- and except for the b-day party the place was deserted. Even the kids at the party were all from other parts of Irvine, the only reason the party was there is the child's grandfather lives in Woodbridge.



Just curious....maybe my perception of Woodbridge as having mostly grown children is off. Thanks.</blockquote>


I have heard this about Woodbridge, and to a certain extent I think this is true. I see lots of kids walking/riding to Meadow Park Elementary every morning so they do seem to exist (otherwise they would close down the school, I guess), and our street happens to have a lot of young kids, but perhaps we are the exception. My wife has commented that sometimes they go to the park and they are the only ones there. A while back on this blog someone commented that they liked the newer areas of Irvine because that is where the young families are tending to move, and I can see that appeal even though I don't personally want to move inland from the 5. I guess I feel that if your kids are in school then most likely they will meet other kids from the neighborhood who are the same age. But if anyone has the demographic data for the different villages of Irvine it would be interesting to see this.
 
[quote author="popak" date=1237344996]Thank you all for the quick replies.



Bling Bling, yeah, we certainly are in the same situation. For the school peak hours, what did you think about noise levels? I'm more worried about hearing bells and recess and kids playing all the time in our house more than traffic congestion.



</blockquote>


Popak,



Noise levels didn't seem to be too bad when I drove by but this was early in the morning around 8 am. I haven't been in the area during recess or lunch times. However, my family lives in Turtle Rock right by Bonita Canyon and it can get quite loud sometimes (recess and lunch). They are across the street about a quarter mile away and you can definitely hear them. The worst part is if I stop by when school gets out (around 2 pm or so). Its pretty nuts with all the parents picking up their kids.
 
I find it interesting that you havent given much thought to Northwood. Although there is a wide variation, there are some areas that have nicer, more contemporary floor plans than those found in most of the more reasonably priced woodbridge houses. And from my understanding, now HOA/mellaroos for many neighborhoods. Take a drive around the communities near Northwood Park (locals call it castle park) around Bryan/Yale.



I actually find these neighborhoods to have significant variations, even from street to street. Take a drive up Monticello from Yale (going away from the park). I think areas like this are FAR less "cookie cutter" than the places you are looking. (but lets be honest, they all are cookie-cutter to some degree in Irvine).
 
Thanks, Bling Bling. I guess we'll have to work out the noise levels around schools as we're looking. It's definitely a negative in our book, I think.



MojoJD, we have looked at a few places in Northwood. It's just a little farther north that we want to be, but we're not avoiding the area completely and still looking in Northwood/Woodbury.
 
Woodbridge has a toxic plume from El Toro base underneath it - I know that supposedly they are cleaning it up... There was a thread on here a long time ago about it with a map - search for toxic plume if interested.
 
Woodbridge has a lot of pluses-- most of which have already been mentioned. One BIG negative is the very stringent HOA-- When I lived there-- they held up our escrow because our front gate was painted the wrong shade of white. The color was so close that my husband could only tell the right color from the wrong color by which one was wet while he was painting it. So if you are planning on buying a fixer-- you have to factor in multiple passes before the HOA architectual board for approvals. And-- if you buy a condo inside Woodbridge-- it's double the HOA headache. Some of those are unbelievably strict (no parking on your driveway apron, garage inspections to make sure you can fit a car inside, limits on the type of flowers you can plant in the front, etc.
 
furious sugar, that sounds pretty draconian.



I guess, personally, we do not have a problem with stringent HOA rules per se. In fact, I kinda like them because, for the most part, it keeps the community from deteriorating, I guess. As long as they are applied equally to all house owners and not just us :)
 
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