Why Aren't Kids Playing on the Street in Irvine?

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"Irvine is the most sterilely planned neighborhood in the nation. Neighborhood lacks characters dominated by garages, driveways and cookie cutter houses, small lots and extra wide unfriendly streetscape, and phantom neighbors."





You need to go out to the placeless suburbia of older tract communities to really experience sterility and banality. Irvine has always been pretty innovative with its land planning. The current trend toward alley-loaded product is a direct result of the garage dominated streetscapes of the past. The houses are a bit too cookie cutter, but other tract home neighborhoods are even worse. The wide streets are usually a requirement of the fire department. I have fought this on projects and lost. Police and fire want easily accessible neighborhoods to decrease response times. It doesn't always make for the kind of street we would like. Whenever I drive around Laguna Beach, I always wonder how long it would take a fire truck or ambulance to get to some of these houses. Wide streets are the price you pay for the conveniences of Irvine. The other problems you mentioned are broader societal problems not caused by Irvine's planning or product design. I still see kids playing in the parks unsupervised in my neighborhood, but they tend to be tweens and teens, rarely do I see kids younger than 12 without their parents. I don't think this is a bad thing. Kids weren't any safer when we were growing up, our parents were just more ignorant to the dangers out there. Car seats for kids didn't become required because people suddenly became poor drivers, it was when the dangers became known that these seats became required. I wouldn't drive with my children the way my parents drove around with me. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
 
My observations, FWIW (i.e., nothing): When the weather is warm, half our village/neighborhood is out at the community pool. The tot lot at the community park gets a fair amount of traffic, even if it's nannies with the kids instead of parents. I see people in their late 20's and up out every morning for a walk, and in the evenings, too. These walks, however, are not out on the major boulevards, but inside the immediate village/neighborhood and the bike trail nearby. I don't see school age kids that much, but I always figured it was because they were inside studying, at soccer practice, or playing with their Wii.
 
An episode of Momo Flashback...





Back in early 1980's I attended Rio Vista Elementary in Anaheim. It was near Lincoln Ave & 57 FWY. The Santa Ana River was within short walking distance. For those unfamiliar, the river is actually divided into 2 parts, the actual river to the east and a series of large man-made lakes to the west (fed by river water). The man-made lakes are part of the water department's water works to allow the water to slowly seep down to ground water table and replenish what we pump up. These man-made lakes exist from Placentia/Orange area down to Anaheim. The man-made lakes near Placentia/Orange is leased by a company running pay lakes for fishing -- Santa Ana Riverlakes and Anaheim Lake.





In 1980-1982 the Santa Ana River segment that intersects Lincoln Ave isn't fenced. I'd walk down there after school with a spool of hand line or cheap garage-sale fishing rod and catch carp, catfish, sunfish, and occasional trout on canned corn. I suspect the trout is from either pay lake stockings, or DFG stockings from Prado Regional Park in Chino. Whenever they release water the fish gets washed downstream. If you walk south along the riverbank (from Lincoln Ave area), after 1 man-made lake, there's a larger one that's created by a gravel pit operation.





The western river bank on the way to the gravel pit area used to be a public trail, but they closed it due to lack of funding and trash left by people. However parts of the trail still remains, there's a paved bike route, as well as a dirt path with broken irrigation system and many plants put there over 30 years ago, including some apricot trees that are still alive and well today producing very good apricots. I've heard that there are plans to redevelop the area into a public park, we'll see what happens. WARNING: If you sneak in there and get caught by the patrols today, you'll get a trespassing ticket.





It's said that when archaeologists found an ancient Sumerian tablet, they worked for months to decipher it. And when they finally translated the many-thousand year old tablet, it was the writings of an old man complaining about "whatever happened to the good old days". While we could look back at the 1980s and ask whatever happened to the simpler days, someone in 1980s was probably moaning about the same and missing the "good old 1950s" and so on. Time marches forward and we just have to deal with the changes.





p.s. In 1980s we had some nut cases who were putting needles into Halloween candies.
 
<p>We live in a transitional society now where nothing is permanent as it was during the days of when we grew up and our parents stayed in their jobs for 30-yrs and in the same neighborhood. We live in a development here in the midwest that aspired to recreate the front porch, sidewalks and traditional architecture of the yesteryears. I have noticed that neighbors <u>do</u> gather and kids <u>do</u> play together. However, it's not all it's cracked up to be. What's different is that many homes have turned over during the short time the development has been in existence. Neighbors do get together but then they complain about other neighbors. I'm not naive enough to think that it's an idyllic setting. </p>
 
<p>Ant,</p>

<p>I am not so sure about our transitional society. My experience is time is what you need to promote neighbory friendship. I could only have time to invest in just 1 neighbor!</p>
 
<p>acpme,</p>

<p>Some year ago, my husband and I thought Irvine was some boring place that we would never want to live in. We would not even check out the developments in Irvine. We came from the sand in Newport Beach and the hilly side of Laguna Beach.</p>

<p>Then we stumble upon Irvine when we had kids and we both worked in Irvine. Now I realized how much I love living in Irvine and would not even consider moving back to Newport Beach/Coast. I found many great people who share similar values with me. I found the outside friendship support system that I need and still have all the privacy of my own home. And most of all, I feel safe in this city.</p>

<p>I like neatness everywhere because it makes me feel good!</p>
 
<p>"We are willing to forgo the aesthetic environment and social experience so that we can raise our family safely in our troubling society."</p>

<p>Come to Long Beach Blvd. off the 91 fwy. on a Saturday night..you'll get plenty of what your missing. </p>

<p />

<p />
 
I have been to LBB. I know what is going on there between 91 and the 710 fwy. Are we talking about the samething near the Compton indoor swap meet>
 
Yeah, in our day as kids we would play st hockey in the street or basketball in the front drive...those days are gone...FOR THE BETTER. Now, we have neighborhood parks with basketball hoops, lots of grass and, guess what, lots of other kids. Woodbury/PS has the perfect sized streets. Not too big, not too small.
 
Americans are WAY too paranoid about their kids. "Stranger danger" is, and always has been, rare - abuse, kidnapping, etc. is almost always done by somebody who knows the child and usually a relative. I was lucky with my parents - my dad showed me the path to my best friend's house when I was 6 and I walked and biked everywhere by myself through childhood. (Including through the low-rent apartment complex on the way to the mall. Horrors! :-P ) I was just in Europe and there are unsupervised kids everywhere. It was so normal and nice!



I do think it's a good idea for children to stay out of the way of the 2-ton land boats flying down the streets, though.
 
I agree with IR's response back at the beginning of this thread. It's not Irvine...times have just changed, and Irvine's planning response fits perfectly with the changing times. That's why people like to live here. The older neighborhoods may still have the "look" that BK misses, but I'd be willing to bet that you won't see many unsupervised pre-teens running around there either. I think Woodbury has done a pretty good job of adapting to this new reality and there are tons of young families there. True, new homes don't have 1/4 acre lots with long driveways and basketball hoops, but those days are gone, and having a basketball hoop in the park across the street is a pretty good compromise.



BTW, this is a great thread, thanks to BK for starting it.
 
<,bk..not a personal attack or anything but why so many long anti-Irvine manifestos>>



BK is a urban visionary and has an idea of his perfect neighborhood (can there ever be such a thing in the Los Angeles metro?) so he notices the many small imperfections in Irvine. IMHO he likes Irvine or else he wouldn't be posting his very interesting opinions here. Everyone who posts here is looking for that dream home.



I've also lived and had homes in many places...Melbourne Australia, Hong Kong, Palo Alto, Denver, Breckenridge, Houston, Dana Point, Irvine etc. ..A rolling stone gathers no moss. With the exception of that short stint in Houston you can say that I've been rather fortunate. Irvine will be fine for me again when I move back. But in Irvine I'll miss the chance of being up the summit of Arapahoe Basin at a moments whim after a May blizzard...the white snow blinding againt the azure deep blue skies as I fall down Palavicini.
 
Playing in the street is dangerous for kids and drivers. I'm happy kids don't play in the street in Irvine. It's much safer and quieter for kids to play in parks. I wouldn't move to a neighborhood with a bunch of kids in the streets or basketball hoops cluttering the sidewalks and streets.
 
I don't see Irvine's design as a big part of the problem. For very young kids, the shortage of playspace on the same street is a problem, but for a kid old enough to bike there's usually an accessible park or shopping area. It's overzoned, so the trip can be long, but still nothing like South County or the foothills often are, and the zoning is a similar or worse problem in almost every suburb in America. Irvine is much more kid-friendly than my brother's neighborhood in Alabama - it's miles to the nearest shopping area there, although they do have a playpark on the street.
 
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