Turtle Ridge: Looking at the Market Through Rose-Trellised Lenses

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GavriloPrincip_IHB

GavriloPrincip_IHB

New member
I've been watching a house at 41 Rose Trellis in Turtle Ridge that is in default and scheduled to be sold at an upcoming Trustee's Sale. This weekend I went up to look at it, and found that the three houses immediately adjacent to it are all for sale: 39 Rose Trellis, 37 Rose Trellis and 35 Rose Trellis. Across the street, 32 Rose Trellis is also for sale. I'm posting about this because I think it will be a good example of how a foreclosure drags down prices on the street and in the neighborhood.




 
hursday


5/3/2007 2:00:00 PM











<strong>Address:</strong>

<a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=41+Rose+Trellis,+Irvine,+CA+92603" target="_blank" title="Get Google Map">41 Rose Trellis</a>


<a href="http://maps.yahoo.com/beta/#maxp=search&q1=41+Rose+Trellis,+Irvine+CA,+92603" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.fidelityasap.com/i/icon_yahoo.gif" alt="Get Yahoo! Map" /></a>





<strong>City:</strong>

Irvine





<strong>State:</strong>

CA





<strong>Zip:</strong>

92603





<strong>County:</strong>

Orange





<strong>APN:</strong>

478-381-11





















<strong>Sale Status:</strong>

Postponed to 05/03/2007 2:00 pm


(Bankruptcy)





<strong>TS Number:</strong>

0627104





<strong>Notice of Sale Amt:</strong>

$1,426,031.85





<strong>Opening Bid Amt:</strong>

0





<strong>Sold Amt:</strong>

0





<strong>Sale Location:</strong>

<a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=700+Civic+Center+Drive+West,+Santa%20Ana,+CA+92701" target="_blank" title="Get Google Map">At the North front entrance to the County Courthouse, 700 Civic Center Drive West, Santa Ana, CA.</a>


<a href="http://maps.yahoo.com/beta/#maxp=search&q1=700+Civic+Center+Drive+West,+Santa%20Ana+CA+92701" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.fidelityasap.com/i/icon_yahoo.gif" alt="Get Yahoo! Map" /></a>





<strong>Trustee:</strong>

Recon Trust Company N.A.





<strong>Trustee Phone#:</strong>

(800)281-8219




















 
The $1.426 amount obviously represents the first Trust Deed. I dont have access to the public records to check if there is a second TD, but Zillow says the tax assessment value is $1.371m. If this was the purchase price, tt might indicate a 100% financing situation or neg am loan. According to agents at the other open houses on the street, $1.3m was what a lot of these houses sold for when new, and prices went as high as $1.8m for similar models during the boom. Zillow currently estimates this house is worth about $1.6m. Not sure about the condition inside, but the yard is not well kept--grass is dead out front. Local agents said the owner was a bit of a "problem neighbor" and the police had been called to the house a few times. One agent said owner was an "investor" who owned two other houses in Turtle Ridge with his wife or girlfriend, but that he hadn't seen him at the house in over a month.
 
<p class="MsoNormal">Next door, the very similar looking house at 39 Rose Trellis. Wishing price $2,050,000. (MLS actually shows $1.950m, but flyer at house listed $2.050m.) Flyer says 4 bed, 4.5 bath, 2825 square feet. Zillow estimates value at $1.68m, and tax assessed value is $1.48m.





37 Rose Trellis seller wishes to "consider all offers between $2,187,000 - $2,495,999." 3 bed, 3.5 bath, 3,000 square feet. Flyer says "<strong><em>The villa's meticulous grounds are beautifully landscaped with Italianesque themed trees...</em></strong>" I am not making this up. Anyone who can tell me what an "<strong><em>Italianesque-themed tree</em></strong>" is gets a free Godfather box set. Zillow estimates value at $1.61m; tax assessment is $1.379m.





Next door, 35 Rose Trellis is a bit larger at 3,400 square feet, 4 bed, 4.5 baths, and a relative bargain at a wishing price of $2.2m. Zillow estimates $1.978m; sold on March 3, 2005 for $1.65m. After 6% commission this lucky seller would pocket about $417k for living in the place just two years. Note the purchase date is just over two years ago; this makes me think the seller actually lives there and is trying to capture the tax break for gain on the sale of a primary residence.





Finally, this leads us across the street to 32 Rose Trellis, which is nobody's primary residence and is offered at $1,550,000. It is owned by "investors" and has been vacant and on the market for a year; that is, the "investors" have been carrying this house at $8,000/month for a year, to the tune of about $96,000. Zillow estimates the value at $1.8m, but obviously this is far too high given that it has been on the market for much less than that and hasn't sold. I talked to listing agent Gary Macrides for a while; he was one of the most centered agents I've spoken with, and served up none of the usual realtor Kool Aid. He said that several houses on the street were owned by "investors" and at one point last year, there were actually 7 houses on the street for sale.





Ok, remember 41 Rose Trellis? What's going to happen when it goes through foreclosure and the lender puts it back on the market for whatever portion of $1.4m it can get? Should be more entertaining than HBO's Italianesque themed drama that is in the final season now. Will this be the season that the sellers finally get whacked?</p>
 
Good work Gav.





I have no clue what "<em>italianesque themed" </em>trees mean, but maybe their landscaping looks like Vito's backyard where he grew all those tomatoes?





Also, not to plagerize your hard work I took it one step further to see what they are asking for per square foot:





37 Rose - $729 / sqft


35 Rose - $647 / sqft


32 Rose - $484 / sqft "note I used a median of 3200sqft since the sqft was not given"


39 Rose - $725 / sqft





If anyone has a chisel to pry my chin off my desk please send it over my way.
 
I have been a Rose Trellis watcher as well. I believe 34 Rose Trellis was on sale for quite a while and finally sold. However, i don't have access to the sales price. Anyone know what it finally sold for?
 
<em>Anyone who can tell me what an "<strong><em>Italianesque-themed tree</em></strong>" is gets a free Godfather box set.</em>





It's a tree from Italiana. Duh. I've never actually seen Godfather so this might be interesting
 
Good stuff guys!





Hmm.. 34 Rose Trellis. I see that it was purchased from the builder, Richmond American, on 10/05/2004 for $1,299,000. I don't see any transfers since then.
 
<p>553Mino2126: 32 Rose Trellis is only 2800 square feet, so it's even worse than you thought: $553 per square foot.</p>

<p>According to Prudential's MLS search site, average price per square foot for this area is $478. </p>
 
<p>Actually 32 Rose Trellis has a picture of floorplan on the listing. Initially I was attracted by price/area/elevation, but when I looked at the floorplan, all bets were off.... This is a floorplan for family with no more than one kid. Big MB, one secondary BR on second floor and one Casita. That's it in all 2825 sq.ft. Even breakfast area is isolated from kitchen somewhat... We did not tour that house.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Also, bear in mind that 32 Rose Trellis has no view, while 41, 39, 37 and 35 Rose Trellis are on the "view" side of the street. The view is panoramic and pretty spectacular, looking out toward Newport Harbor and Catalina toward the northwest and sweeping all the way to the mountains above Pasadena (and probably Big Bear) to the east on a clear day. This probably helps account for the wishing price of 32 Rose Trellis being only about 75% of the wishing prices for the others. However, if 41 Rose Trellis with its great view goes for say $1.3m at the foreclosure sale, I wonder how far that would drive down the value of non-view houses. </p>
 
I looked up the title history on 41 Rose Trellis and it is a mess. I can't figure out what loans are what. This what I know they bought it for $1.334mil with 10% down. They got a new credit line getting there 10% down back the next month. Then two months latter they consolidated the loans into one and got some cash. After that the loans do not make sense but I think they have an additional $500k second. All told they are probably in trouble.
 
<p>Graphix: nice work. If the first TD is $1.42 million, and there is another $500,000 in debt on the house, that's $1.94m in debt! Sounds like the second TD holder is going to get wiped out, and I'm not even sure the first TD holder will be made whole. Also, since the first TD is a re-fi and not the original purchase money mortgage, FB is legally liable for a deficiency even if the property is sold at a trustee's sale. FB is definitely in trouble. But, take a close look at the Notice of Trustee's Sale: the sale has been postponed at least once due to bankruptcy. I wonder if those other two houses are in his girlfriend's name.</p>

<p>FWIW, two of the agents said they had heard there was a sale on 41 Rose Trellis, but as of this morning the trustee's sale is still listed on Fidelity ASAP's web site. Given what Graphix found, I wouldn't get near this property until after it has gone thru the trustee's sale and wiped out all liens. No amount of title insurance could give peace of mind buying from this guy.</p>
 
This whole development is slated for a big fall. Note the nearly $400/mo. HOA dues and the near 2% property tax rate on top of the average $500/sf prices.
 
<p><a href="http://realty.wgcs.com/zipcode.html?st=5&city=14&zip=2&page=7&so=1">http://realty.wgcs.com/zipcode.html?st=5&city=14&zip=2&page=7&so=1</a></p>

<p>Am I reading this wrong- the website that was posted here on the forums says that 34 Rose Trellis closed on 3/23/07?</p>
 
JoonB, that's strange. I didn't see anything on the title report and couldn't find it in MLS. Now that I've got the MLS # from the link you provided, I'll look that up in MLS.
 
<p>In most cases, I have noticed that the abovementioned website says "closed" for the expired listings. If you see a date next to "backup offers" (indicating status changed from active -> contract pending), then and then "closed" means "sold".</p>

<p> </p>
 
stillConfused, you are correct. realty.wgcs.com lists houses as "closed" when the listing is expired, either because the house actually sold or if the listing just ended for some other reason. That is odd. But otherwise I think that is one of the best free sites around because it is fast, shows DOM and price reductions. (No, I have no interest in the site).
 
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