Question Regarding What is Needed to Be Called a Bedroom

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waynestemp_IHB

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I have a question regarding what is needed for a bedroom to be legal for the city of Irvine. I understand that a bedroom needs to have enough space to place a bed into, a closet, as well as a window/door that can access the outdoors.



The reason I ask this is I have been renting a home in Irvine for the past five years. The home was listed to have a total of four bedrooms, however prior to moving into the property in the summer of 2003, part of the master bedroom had been converted into the fourth room. The room does have a closet and a door that leads to the hallway, however does not have an accessible window to open but a skylight. The room is literally lit all day and is probably the hottest room in Irvine.



I know that the city of Irvine adopted the 2007 California Fire Code earlier in the year and that the construction of the supposed fourth bedroom might be grandfathered into a different code during the construction in 2003. I have also renewed yearly leases every summer with the landlord stating that the home is still four bedrooms. I would like to know if the previous code would deem the fourth room not legal when I resigned for July 2007. Thank you.
 
I would have to double check, but the building code for windows has been around a lot longer than 2003, more like 1973 and a skylight doesn't cut it. It sounds to me like it was unpermitted, and you should pull the permits, if they exist at all, and see what they say. If the permits do not exist, or they were not done up to code, then the last thing your landlord wants is the city of Irvine to on his back. So, try to be cool about it, and let him know you have someone who will give him a good price on a new window or knocking down the wall, and PM me when you do.
 
Harry Potter bedrooms cannot be legally defined as a bedroom...



Depending on local building and fire codes, bedrooms usually have minimum sq ft, closet, and window requirements.
 
OP - what is the real question you are asking here? Legal, permitted or otherwise, the improvements are what they are. Are you looking for a basis to justify a rent reduction? Or something else entirely?
 
<blockquote>I don?t understand the rationality of the closet requirement. Back in the East Coast, I don?t seem to remember every ?bedroom? there to have a closet. Anyone can shine a light on this? </blockquote>
We sold a house in the suburbs of Boston. We were always told that a bedroom had to have a closet and a window (for fire escape). I heard this time and time again from Massachusetts realtors. I never looked up the regs, but they were strict on this issue.
 
Astute,



I have a house in Connecticut. I actually was able to argue for a property tax reduction b/c one of my "bedrooms" did not have a closet. It showed on the tax rolls as a 3 bd, but once I called the assessor and explained that it didn't have a closet, they changed it to a 2 bd without even coming over to take a look.
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1215556972]I look it up on wiki, and it uses the definition from zillow, which does mention the closet and window. However (it's been a decade ago...), I remember that in Connecticut, bedroom does not always have closet. It will specifically mentioned built-in closet or walk-in closet if it does, otherwise, you just get a dresser or a armorie to hold the cloths. I guess the definition of bedroom depends on locality, but I would like to hear the rationality of having a closet as a requirement for bedroom (in California). We have a few people from Connecticut here, and I wonder if any of you remember the kind of bedroom I am thinking of.</blockquote>


We lived in a summer house year round in Milford and NONE of the bedrooms had closets. One of them had some built in shelving and another was merely the size of a closet. Maybe because so many of the homes are so old there that the restriction wouldn't make sense.
 
Generally speaking bedrooms need to have a window that's 5.7 sq ft in "net clear opening" or larger, minimum 20" wide, 24" high, and no more than 44" off the floor. This is to satisfy building fire codes for escape/rescue through a window. A skylight would NOT qualify. Different locations may vary on the requirement. i.e. minimum 70 sq ft (child's bedroom) or 90 sq ft (adult bedroom) open floor space, must have heating, etc.



We had an earlier thread that discuss loft vs. bedroom:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/390/#5255



This is what BK said in that thread:



<em>"Bedroom must meet the life safety code, light and ventilation requirements. These are rules that the building department used to approve a set of architectural plans. Bedroom by definition does not need a closet (after market armoire would do just fine). However there must be a window for egress. The window screen area must be 7.5 sf. and no narrower than 21? and the sill of the window can not be higher than 42?. The opening requirement and sill height is for the fireman to rescue an unconscious occupant in the event of a fire. Size of a bedroom is 9x9 to meet the code definition."</em>
 
[quote author="momopi" date=1215564719]Generally speaking bedrooms need to have a window that's 5.7 sq ft in "net clear opening" or larger, minimum 20" wide, 24" high, and no more than 44" off the floor. This is to satisfy building fire codes for escape/rescue through a window. A skylight would NOT qualify. Different locations may vary on the requirement. i.e. minimum 70 sq ft (child's bedroom) or 90 sq ft (adult bedroom) open floor space, must have heating, etc.



We had an earlier thread that discuss loft vs. bedroom:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/390/#5255



This is what BK said in that thread:



<em>"Bedroom must meet the life safety code, light and ventilation requirements. These are rules that the building department used to approve a set of architectural plans. Bedroom by definition does not need a closet (after market armoire would do just fine). However there must be a window for egress. The window screen area must be 7.5 sf. and no narrower than 21? and the sill of the window can not be higher than 42?. The opening requirement and sill height is for the fireman to rescue an unconscious occupant in the event of a fire. Size of a bedroom is 9x9 to meet the code definition."</em></blockquote>




Momopi, You got an "A++++" You and Eva are my top students. Graph was on the honor roll but he is disqualified because of the interest of conflict due to the recent finding that we may have been derived from the same strand of DNA.
 
[quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1215434813]OP - what is the real question you are asking here? Legal, permitted or otherwise, the improvements are what they are. Are you looking for a basis to justify a rent reduction? Or something else entirely?</blockquote>


I want to thank everyone that posted in this thread as all of the information is helpful.



My original intent for asking the question is to check if building such a bedroom is permitted. I understand that the 2007 California Fire Code indicates that this supposed bedroom is in violation for emergency escapes. I also wanted to check if the city of Irvine had a code back in the summer of 2003 that would had been violated when the bedroom was made.



I am possibly at this point looking into possible legal actions against the landlord. I am not positive if I can include this in a case, but I want to know if there are any actions available for me to justify any sort of compensation.
 
[quote author="waynestemp" date=1215950475]My original intent for asking the question is to check if building such a bedroom is permitted. I understand that the 2007 California Fire Code indicates that this supposed bedroom is in violation for emergency escapes. I also wanted to check if the city of Irvine had a code back in the summer of 2003 that would had been violated when the bedroom was made.



I am possibly at this point looking into possible legal actions against the landlord. I am not positive if I can include this in a case, but I want to know if there are any actions available for me to justify any sort of compensation.</blockquote>


The fact that <strong>you've made the choice to renew for the last 5 years</strong> would not bode well for you if you indeed choose to end up standing up in front of the man in the black robe.
 
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