not bottom until 2014?

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20080808/bs_bw/0833b4096068696630;_ylt=AqK30gA1lEkvUwxH_QE4w1OyBhIF







He's Not Buying It



By Amy FeldmanFri Aug 8, 8:08 AM ET



Among those who believe it's too early to hunt for bargains in the real estate market is John Burns, president of John Burns Real Estate Consulting, which advises large builders and investment firms. "Prices stabilize last, after sales volumes and foreclosures," he explains. "There's no way the real estate market is going to be stable next year."



Here's the way Burns sees it: Supply and demand are way out of whack, with a more than 10-month supply of homes on the market (that's 4.5 million homes for resale). Only when that imbalance gets worked out -- which would mean a 46% decline in the inventory of homes for resale, according to his calculations -- will prices start to recover.



With fewer buyers and increasing foreclosures adding to supply, that's going to take time. Around 2010, Burns reasons, the least bubbly of the markets will start reaching equilibrium, and in 2011 the national market should move into better balance.



In the worst markets, which include certain outlying areas in California (where Burns is based, in Irvine), his grim prognosis is that balance won't come until 2014. The bottom that California and Florida resale values are hitting is even lower than that of the early 1990s, so it will take longer for home prices to rebound. That's why Burns isn't buying, and his advice to his California employees who are looking to buy is unequivocal: Wait.
 
2014? ...<em> somebody's smokin crack!</em> You ready to 'run for the hills', I'm sure not!



The BIGGEST news in my short 4 decade career ... <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>will change everything!
 
[quote author="Secret" date=1218514666]2014? ...<em> somebody's smokin crack!</em> You ready to 'run for the hills', I'm sure not!



The BIGGEST news in my short 4 decade career ... <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>will change everything!</blockquote>


The only change will be a further decrease in the value of the dollar, and more folks will stop making payments on their mortgage.
 
This is what John Burns said on Dec 1, 2005 about the San Diego Market: "...The economics for San Diego dictate a "B" housing market, so the currently soft housing market is likely to correct itself in 2006." As we all know, housing market never "corrected" itself in 2006, it went downward from there. I guess some of us believe he is smarter today then 32 months ago.



The full article is listed below.





John Burns

December 1, 2005

GIANTS

Giant Market: San Diego



After unprecedented levels of price appreciation, the San Diego market has returned to normal market conditions. Three factors have contributed to the softening of the market:



Increasing competition from builders

Increasing competition from condominium converters

Increasing competition from resale listings

While some overpriced situations exist, market demand and supply is largely in balance. The 19,400 jobs created in the last 12 months exceed construction levels by 23 percent, which is a healthy demand/supply level.



Affordability is a major problem in San Diego, with a median resale home price that now exceeds $550,000. The slowly declining resale volume in San Diego supports the notion that entry-level buyers are being priced out of the market.



The market is very competitive for builders. Buyers have choices, and will purchase the homes that offer the best design and best execution. Lot and view premiums are likely to be declining. This is a time for San Diego builders to be fine tuning their operations, but not panicking. The economics for San Diego dictate a "B" housing market, so the currently soft housing market is likely to correct itself in 2006.
 
The crest of the alt-a resets are in 10-12 so until that blows by the RE market will not stabilize till after that. We have not seen ugly yet and congress is just rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic..
 
[quote author="OCCOBRA" date=1218516817]The crest of the alt-a resets are in 10-12 so until that blows by the RE market will not stabilize till after that. We have not seen ugly yet and congress is just rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic..</blockquote>




May be sooner than 10-12, as apparently a high percentage of alt-a/option/etc are already in arrears.



And since they are underwater price/loan, many may walk sooner rather than hold out.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1218516460][quote author="Secret" date=1218514666]2014? ...<em> somebody's smokin crack!</em> You ready to 'run for the hills', I'm sure not!



The BIGGEST news in my short 4 decade career ... <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>will change everything!</blockquote>


The only change will be a further decrease in the value of the dollar, and more folks will stop making payments on their mortgage.</blockquote>




... about your remark .. one of my friends (you probably know him ... Dave Grey) sent me this in an e-mail Saturday ... kinda relates to your thoughts: <em>"I've been saying for some time that given the cheap dollar, and other US economic aspects, huge foreign money is close at hand.



American capital, largely due to stockholder/investor/media/taxation issues and influence, has small cajones and almost zero patience. Sad. Still, money coming into the market should (fingers crossed) speed recovery."</em>



I agree with is thoughts; plus once you actually read this statute I referred to (not merely some of the 'biased' sumnmaries out there these days), you'll quickly see why I said that.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1218517169][quote author="OCCOBRA" date=1218516817]The crest of the alt-a resets are in 10-12 so until that blows by the RE market will not stabilize till after that. We have not seen ugly yet and congress is just rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic..</blockquote>




May be sooner than 10-12, as apparently a high percentage of alt-a/option/etc are already in arrears.



And since they are underwater price/loan, many may walk sooner rather than hold out.</blockquote>




... and about your comments OCCOBRA and freedomCM, if you'll look at <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>and specifically <span style="color: red;">SEC. 1402. ESTABLISHMENT OF HOPE FOR HOMEOWNERS PROGRAM</span> you'll see why your thoughts don't hold water!
 
[quote author="Secret" date=1218517240][quote author="awgee" date=1218516460][quote author="Secret" date=1218514666]2014? ...<em> somebody's smokin crack!</em> You ready to 'run for the hills', I'm sure not!



The BIGGEST news in my short 4 decade career ... <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>will change everything!</blockquote>


The only change will be a further decrease in the value of the dollar, and more folks will stop making payments on their mortgage.</blockquote>




... about your remark .. one of my friends (you probably know him ... Dave Grey) sent me this in an e-mail Saturday ... kinda relates to your thoughts: <em>"I've been saying for some time that given the cheap dollar, and other US economic aspects, huge foreign money is close at hand.



American capital, largely due to stockholder/investor/media/taxation issues and influence, has small cajones and almost zero patience. Sad. Still, money coming into the market should (fingers crossed) speed recovery."</em>



I agree with is thoughts; plus once you actually read this statute I referred to (not merely some of the 'biased' sumnmaries out there these days), you'll quickly see why I said that.</blockquote>


Sorry, I do not know or know of Dave Grey.


I have not read any of the biased summaries. And I already know why you said that; Hope.


Home prices may stabilize in terms of nominal dollars within a few years, but in terms of real, (inflation adjusted), dollars, home prices will continue to sink for at least the next five years and possibly a decade. The price of necessities will increase greatly compared to income, thereby decreasing the amount that potential homebuyers will be able to spend on housing.
 
[quote author="Secret" date=1218518000][quote author="freedomCM" date=1218517169][quote author="OCCOBRA" date=1218516817]The crest of the alt-a resets are in 10-12 so until that blows by the RE market will not stabilize till after that. We have not seen ugly yet and congress is just rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic..</blockquote>




May be sooner than 10-12, as apparently a high percentage of alt-a/option/etc are already in arrears.



And since they are underwater price/loan, many may walk sooner rather than hold out.</blockquote>




... and about your comments OCCOBRA and freedomCM, if you'll look at <strong>H.R. 3221 / Public Law 110-289 Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 </strong>and specifically <span style="color: red;">SEC. 1402. ESTABLISHMENT OF HOPE FOR HOMEOWNERS PROGRAM</span> you'll see why your thoughts don't hold water!</blockquote>


Not to pick an argument with the new guy, but part of that program requires you to qualify at around 35% debt/income ratio.



Nobody in SoCal who's distressed (okay, maybe a few will, but almost nobody) who's sideways could qualify for conventional financing. Which is how we got in this mess in the first place. Plus, the bank has to agree to the cramdown. And that's absolutely not going to happen, if for no reason other than the 'moral hazard' it creates when somebody gets a cramdown and everyone else stops paying so they can get one too.



The HFH program is a big nothingburger for most socal residences. It might help somebody in Michigan or Idaho.
 
[quote author="Secret" date=1218517240]... about your remark .. one of my friends (you probably know him ... Dave Grey) sent me this in an e-mail Saturday ... kinda relates to your thoughts: <em>"I've been saying for some time that given the cheap dollar, and other US economic aspects, huge foreign money is close at hand. </em></blockquote>


Please have your friend Mr. Grey relate to his foreign friends or clients that I will gladly sell them my Irvine condo for $750K. That offer expires at 11:59 p.m. on December 31, 2008.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1218524243][quote author="Secret" date=1218517240]... about your remark .. one of my friends (you probably know him ... Dave Grey) sent me this in an e-mail Saturday ... kinda relates to your thoughts: <em>"I've been saying for some time that given the cheap dollar, and other US economic aspects, huge foreign money is close at hand. </em></blockquote>


Please have your friend Mr. Grey relate to his foreign friends or clients that I will gladly sell them my Irvine condo for $750K. That offer expires at 11:59 p.m. on December 31, 2008.</blockquote>


Add me to the list too! I have a single story 2800 sqft. SFR in Villa Park that I would be willing to sell at at $250k discount from the peak price of $1.25mil for $1mil (in case dem foreigners have trouble with the math). Let me know when you can deliver the briefcase of unmarked $20s, $10s, $5s, $1s, and 10 rolls of quarters. My offer expires at 11:36 p.m. on December 24th.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1218529438][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1218524243][quote author="Secret" date=1218517240]... about your remark .. one of my friends (you probably know him ... Dave Grey) sent me this in an e-mail Saturday ... kinda relates to your thoughts: <em>"I've been saying for some time that given the cheap dollar, and other US economic aspects, huge foreign money is close at hand. </em></blockquote>


Please have your friend Mr. Grey relate to his foreign friends or clients that I will gladly sell them my Irvine condo for $750K. That offer expires at 11:59 p.m. on December 31, 2008.</blockquote>


Add me to the list too! I have a single story 2800 sqft. SFR in Villa Park that I would be willing to sell at at $250k discount from the peak price of $1.25mil for $1mil (in case dem foreigners have trouble with the math). Let me know when you can deliver the briefcase of unmarked $20s, $10s, $5s, $1s, and 10 rolls of quarters. My offer expires at 11:36 p.m. on December 24th.</blockquote>'t





Graphix, don't ask for unmarked bills, get you payment in GOLD bars!
 
As I said before, I don't believe there are enough foreign money here to make a meaningful difference. But why you all think foreign money are all stupid money?? If we are all that smart here, we would have never had this bubble, or even better how come we didn't all sell our house at the very very peak?



We all know dollar is weak, EURO / Sterling are strong, so there might be "some" want to take advantage of the downward pricing slope. Foreign money will pay for your house just like any other people living here in Irvine most of the time.
 
If it is truly 'smart' money, why would they be interested in a depreciating asset?



And even if they were, why Irvine and not Palm Beach or Manhattan?



Puhleeze
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1218536787]If it is truly 'smart' money, why would they be interested in a depreciating asset?



And even if they were, why Irvine and not Palm Beach or Manhattan?



Puhleeze</blockquote>


Because their money can now buy TWICE what they could when clinton left office....and they know everything is cyclic. :)
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1218536787]If it is truly 'smart' money, why would they be interested in a depreciating asset?



And even if they were, why Irvine and not Palm Beach or Manhattan?



Puhleeze</blockquote>


Help me to understand, so in your opinion there there is only smart money and stupid money, and nothing in-between? Unless IR confirms housing sale has dropped to zero, there are still many people buying a "roof above their head to raise a family". Well they are all stupid, by IHB standard. I guess they are so "stupid", and they can make more than $300K a year.



There is a word to describe people like to judge without facts:ignorant
 
Wait wait! <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/679/P325/#64918">I found someone who needs a buyer way more than EvaL or I combined</a>.
 
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