Motor Court Homes

[Irvinecommuter]

Reading through some of the comments recently and it appears that there is a general disdain toward condos with shared driveway, aka motor court homes.  I am a little confused as to the reaction regarding these homes.  They are a little smaller and have a shared driveway but they are a good compromise between condos with shared walls and SFH in both size and price. 

For example, San Mateo at Stonegate is, in my view, an excellent development.  Decent sized free standing homes that are priced in the high $500K/low $600K.  With the build out of the conservatory, the model 3 will be around 1,900 square feet.  Yes, it has a small yard and a shared driveway but not everyone wants a big yard and the shared driveway seems like a small compromise for not having to pay an extra $80-100K for a SFH.

Since I am seriously thinking about buying into San Mateo (or a similar type of motor court home), I am curious to see what I am not seeing.  Thanks.

 

[cowlemon]

Personally, I don't mind the motorcourts as long as the front door does not opens up to the shared driveway such as in San Mateo.  The only villages I know of that has this type of setup is in Woodbury and Quail Hill.

Reading through some of the comments recently and it appears that there is a general disdain toward condos with shared driveway, aka motor court homes.  I am a little confused as to the reaction regarding these homes.  They are a little smaller and have a shared driveway but they are a good compromise between condos with shared walls and SFH in both size and price. 

For example, San Mateo at Stonegate is, in my view, an excellent development.  Decent sized free standing homes that are priced in the high $500K/low $600K.  With the build out of the conservatory, the model 3 will be around 1,900 square feet.  Yes, it has a small yard and a shared driveway but not everyone wants a big yard and the shared driveway seems like a small compromise for not having to pay an extra $80-100K for a SFH.

Since I am seriously thinking about buying into San Mateo (or a similar type of motor court home), I am curious to see what I am not seeing.  Thanks.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I believe the issue here is the lack of new homes with driveways in that price range you mention. In fact, even in the $700k range, the only choice is Las Ventanas in Portola Springs and there is some location concerns with that project.

It's concerning that to buy a new SFR with a driveway, you have to spend $900k or more... whereas in the past, that price range used to get you not only a driveway but a 3-car garage too.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

the setup of the condos you mentioned in Woodbury and Quail Hill, while avoiding the front door and garage on the same side, most of the plans also lack a true rear back yard and have zero lot line. San Mateo, San Marcos, Sienna and San Remos are closer to true SFR than these condos.

But I agree with iho. the de facto detached starter home today is these motor court products while in the past you get a 3000~4000 sqft lot with drive way.

I am surprised there are not more of the Montecito products (KB's Garden Hill does count it is super sized motor court homes).

Personally, I don't mind the motorcourts as long as the front door does not opens up to the shared driveway such as in San Mateo.  The only villages I know of that has this type of setup is in Woodbury and Quail Hill.

Reading through some of the comments recently and it appears that there is a general disdain toward condos with shared driveway, aka motor court homes.  I am a little confused as to the reaction regarding these homes.  They are a little smaller and have a shared driveway but they are a good compromise between condos with shared walls and SFH in both size and price. 

For example, San Mateo at Stonegate is, in my view, an excellent development.  Decent sized free standing homes that are priced in the high $500K/low $600K.  With the build out of the conservatory, the model 3 will be around 1,900 square feet.  Yes, it has a small yard and a shared driveway but not everyone wants a big yard and the shared driveway seems like a small compromise for not having to pay an extra $80-100K for a SFH.

Since I am seriously thinking about buying into San Mateo (or a similar type of motor court home), I am curious to see what I am not seeing.  Thanks.

 

[cowlemon]

Montecito floor plans looks nice.  Where are they located in Woodbury?

the setup of the condos you mentioned in Woodbury and Quail Hill, while avoiding the front door and garage on the same side, most of the plans also lack a true rear back yard and have zero lot line. San Mateo, San Marcos, Sienna and San Remos are closer to true SFR than these condos.

But I agree with iho. the de facto detached starter home today is these motor court products while in the past you get a 3000~4000 sqft lot with drive way.

I am surprised there are not more of the Montecito products (KB's Garden Hill does count it is super sized motor court homes).

Personally, I don't mind the motorcourts as long as the front door does not opens up to the shared driveway such as in San Mateo.  The only villages I know of that has this type of setup is in Woodbury and Quail Hill.

Reading through some of the comments recently and it appears that there is a general disdain toward condos with shared driveway, aka motor court homes.  I am a little confused as to the reaction regarding these homes.  They are a little smaller and have a shared driveway but they are a good compromise between condos with shared walls and SFH in both size and price. 

For example, San Mateo at Stonegate is, in my view, an excellent development.  Decent sized free standing homes that are priced in the high $500K/low $600K.  With the build out of the conservatory, the model 3 will be around 1,900 square feet.  Yes, it has a small yard and a shared driveway but not everyone wants a big yard and the shared driveway seems like a small compromise for not having to pay an extra $80-100K for a SFH.

Since I am seriously thinking about buying into San Mateo (or a similar type of motor court home), I am curious to see what I am not seeing.  Thanks.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

Motecito resale: http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/62-Marblehead-92620/home/28931930
So both I and II you should be around this area.

Montecito floor plans looks nice.  Where are they located in Woodbury?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

the setup of the condos you mentioned in Woodbury and Quail Hill, while avoiding the front door and garage on the same side, most of the plans also lack a true rear back yard and have zero lot line. San Mateo, San Marcos, Sienna and San Remos are closer to true SFR than these condos.

But I agree with iho. the de facto detached starter home today is these motor court products while in the past you get a 3000~4000 sqft lot with drive way.

I am surprised there are not more of the Montecito products (KB's Garden Hill does count it is super sized motor court homes).

Personally, I don't mind the motorcourts as long as the front door does not opens up to the shared driveway such as in San Mateo.  The only villages I know of that has this type of setup is in Woodbury and Quail Hill.

Again, not everyone wants a big yard.  I certainly don't.  A place to BBQ and a small front area for plants are fine with me. 

Isn't Montecito a zero-lot line development too?

 

[The Motor Court Company]

No I don't think Montecito is zero lot line. It is actually zoned as SFR;
Personally I don't like the TV wall on Montecito floor plans - but if fireplace can be excluded, then it is fine.

a big yard means more separation between you and your rear neighbor (unless you are backed to a street), and also the potential for more improvement like room additions in the future. Buyers today often underestimate the importance of lot size.

Again, not everyone wants a big yard.  I certainly don't.  A place to BBQ and a small front area for plants are fine with me. 

Isn't Montecito a zero-lot line development too?

 

[cowlemon]

Need to find myself one of these homes.  Too bad there are none on the market.  :'(

Motecito resale: http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/62-Marblehead-92620/home/28931930
So both I and II you should be around this area.

Montecito floor plans looks nice.  Where are they located in Woodbury?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

But I agree with iho. the de facto detached starter home today is these motor court products while in the past you get a 3000~4000 sqft lot with drive way.

Quoted for emphasisationism!

 

[Irvinecommuter]

No I don't think Montecito is zero lot line. It is actually zoned as SFR;
Personally I don't like the TV wall on Montecito floor plans - but if fireplace can be excluded, then it is fine.

a big yard means more separation between you and your rear neighbor (unless you are backed to a street), and also the potential for more improvement like room additions in the future. Buyers today often underestimate the importance of lot size.

Again, not everyone wants a big yard.  I certainly don't.  A place to BBQ and a small front area for plants are fine with me. 

Isn't Montecito a zero-lot line development too?

It's not that it's an underestimation, but rather you are willing to give up.  Again a driveway and backyard seems like reasonable things to give up for $100-150K.  Also, who in Irvine build an addition, especially with tract homes?

 

[rkp]

It's not that it's an underestimation, but rather you are willing to give up.  Again a driveway and backyard seems like reasonable things to give up for $100-150K.  Also, who in Irvine build an addition, especially with tract homes?

100% agree that no one is doing additions to the HOA controlled tract homes.  but the flip side is that $100K is only $500 or so financed per month.  so another way of asking that question: is $500 a month worth having a driveway and a backyard?  for me yes.

i dont recommend or like thinking of the monthly number when thinking of my purchase but the reality is that financing is cheap and while a $100K is a big number, $500/month isn't. 

we have lots of friends with smaller backyards but the key is having enough room for your kids to play.  sure irvine is full of parks but at least being able to have a little play center makes it easier for those 15 minute play time.  the minimum i would look for is 15 feet to the back wall

 

[The Motor Court Company]

but this is letting TIC dictating terms. The buyer mentality should not be what he/she has to give up to save $100k, it should have been what the seller needs to add more to the equation for the same $$$ to entice buyers.

Big lots gives you more separation to your neighbors. Privacy cannot be overlooked.

No I don't think Montecito is zero lot line. It is actually zoned as SFR;
Personally I don't like the TV wall on Montecito floor plans - but if fireplace can be excluded, then it is fine.

a big yard means more separation between you and your rear neighbor (unless you are backed to a street), and also the potential for more improvement like room additions in the future. Buyers today often underestimate the importance of lot size.

Again, not everyone wants a big yard.  I certainly don't.  A place to BBQ and a small front area for plants are fine with me. 

Isn't Montecito a zero-lot line development too?

It's not that it's an underestimation, but rather you are willing to give up.  Again a driveway and backyard seems like reasonable things to give up for $100-150K.  Also, who in Irvine build an addition, especially with tract homes?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

100% agree that no one is doing additions to the HOA controlled tract homes.  but the flip side is that $100K is only $500 or so financed per month.  so another way of asking that question: is $500 a month worth having a driveway and a backyard?  for me yes.

Except 100K means an extra 20K in down payment and I don't even know what it does to the income requirements

but this is letting TIC dictating terms. The buyer mentality should not be what he/she has to give up to save $100k, it should have been what the seller needs to add more to the equation for the same $$$ to entice buyers.

Big lots gives you more separation to your neighbors. Privacy cannot be overlooked.

Well, since TIC is the only company building right now, they get to dictate terms.  Also, TIC doesn't dictate terms, they try and deliver from people want.  If the market is all for SFH and big yards, that's what they would be building.  But in this economy and environment, the market is between $400K and $650K.  There is a reason why they stopped build San Marcos and went with San Mateo.


Also, it's not a matter of "saving" it's a matter of affordability.  We're not talking about $300K v. $400K, we're talking $650K and $750K (or above).  Of course I would to buy into Lambert Ranch or Northwood Pointe but I don't have the money.  I have to pick what I am willing to give up to get something I can afford.  I mean if TIC builds SFH but price the 800K or above, I would be renting for another 10 years.

 

[usctrojancpa]

100% agree that no one is doing additions to the HOA controlled tract homes.  but the flip side is that $100K is only $500 or so financed per month.  so another way of asking that question: is $500 a month worth having a driveway and a backyard?  for me yes.

Except 100K means an extra 20K in down payment and I don't even know what it does to the income requirements

but this is letting TIC dictating terms. The buyer mentality should not be what he/she has to give up to save $100k, it should have been what the seller needs to add more to the equation for the same $$$ to entice buyers.

Big lots gives you more separation to your neighbors. Privacy cannot be overlooked.

Well, since TIC is the only company building right now, they get to dictate terms.  Also, TIC doesn't dictate terms, they try and deliver from people want.  If the market is all for SFH and big yards, that's what they would be building.  But in this economy and environment, the market is between $400K and $650K.  There is a reason why they stopped build San Marcos and went with San Mateo.


Also, it's not a matter of "saving" it's a matter of affordability.  We're not talking about $300K v. $400K, we're talking $650K and $750K (or above).  Of course I would to buy into Lambert Ranch or Northwood Pointe but I don't have the money.  I have to pick what I am willing to give up to get something I can afford.  I mean if TIC builds SFH but price the 800K or above, I would be renting for another 10 years.

TIC may dictate terms until buyers stand up and say NO.  If buyers demanded driveways and reasonable sized lots then TIC would deliver that at the same price point that they are selling detached condos with no driveways and very small yards.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

TIC may dictate terms until buyers stand up and say NO.  If buyers demanded driveways and reasonable sized lots then TIC would deliver that at the same price point that they are selling detached condos with no driveways and very small yards.

I think that's selling the buyers a little short.  If they don't believe that detached condos with no driveways and very small yards are worth the price that TIC is asking for, they wouldn't buy it.  I'm usually not a defender of TIC but they are a business and still need to identify and address the needs of the consumer.  With Stonegate, they came up with a wide range of plans including SFH and attached condos...the San Mateo plans seem to have hit a sweet spot.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

Stonegate does not have any of the glaring weaknesses as other villages (super close proximity to landfill/freeway, toxic soil, not so great schools) but the topography is boring and the density is quite high. It too got the number of amenities drastically reduced (pools from 7 to 4), same as Laguna Altura but with an on-site elementary it stopped TIC from f*** up as bad as LA.

San Mateo being the cheapest detached condo and SFR like features, and in Stonegate, is the reason why it is selling well.
Put this product in Woodbury and Portola Spring then it is a different story. I won't give TIC any credit.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

the problem is that the low resale inventory level is helping fueling TIC's greed, and the super low artificial interest rate is making buyers trigger happy and impatient.

the only reason I pulled the trigger is because, if Dec 2012 is the end of human civilization, at least I get to live in a brand new home for a few months!

TIC may dictate terms until buyers stand up and say NO.  If buyers demanded driveways and reasonable sized lots then TIC would deliver that at the same price point that they are selling detached condos with no driveways and very small yards.

 

[usctrojancpa]

the problem is that the low resale inventory level is helping fueling TIC's greed, and the super low artificial interest rate is making buyers trigger happy and impatient.

the only reason I pulled the trigger is because, if Dec 2012 is the end of human civilization, at least I get to live in a brand new home for a few months!

TIC may dictate terms until buyers stand up and say NO.  If buyers demanded driveways and reasonable sized lots then TIC would deliver that at the same price point that they are selling detached condos with no driveways and very small yards.

+1  Totally agree with you all around.  Low inventory and super low rates are helping TIC quite a bit.  If we had 3-4x more inventory, those San Mateo condos wouldn't be selling so well as they are now.

 

[qwerty]

Stonegate does not have any of the glaring weaknesses as other villages (super close proximity to landfill/freeway, toxic soil, not so great schools) but the topography is boring and the density is quite high.

i still dont understand how Portola is trashed by virtue of being the closest to the landfil, when from a practical perspective, Stonegate is what .3 miles farther, with woodbury a close second at .5 miles, if that, from the landfill? does that .3-.5 miles really provide that peace of mind?