Is it me or Mille Fleurs?

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Mazy_IHB

Mazy_IHB

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(Is there a limit on the number of questions newbies can post per week?)



Hi again guys. I appreciate your help on another question in our quest for a livable house in Irvine - This one is causing heated debates between me and my wife:



We have considered Mille Fleurs plan E and F (the ones with casita in front) and my wife likes them. I, on the other hand have a mixed feeling about the ones we have seen so far (25/29 Breezes, 64 Gentry and 61 Stowe) and don't quite like them, although can't put my finger on anything specific. The wife is accusing me of being biased toward houses with cathedral ceiling, or more established neighborhoods with more green trees, etc... Perhaps it was my fault as I was gullible enough to take the name of the plan literally and raised my expectation, but apparantly no flower there for me inside:(



We visited 64 Gentry a couple of times and I always got the feeling that the house was rather dark and gloomy. Admittedly, the plan was quite functional and it seemed to be good overall, but I like an open floor plan with many windows and it seems to me that the Mille Fleurs either do not have many windows (esp. in the living/dining rooms), or the windows are too small (and except for corner lots, open up to the neighbor's wall). I also think the lots are way too elongated and the small width leaves the houses with small and depressing yards and crammed family room and kitchen (and unfortunately, it seems to be a common feature in Irvine).



So, for those of you who have seen Mille Fleurs (esp. plans E & F) in various times of day, or possibly have lived in them for a while, have you found them "light & bright" enough? I know it's a subjective issue, but still like to hear your opinion. Thanks a lot.







<img src="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/uploads/april2008/lite.jpg" alt="" />

(Courtesy of IR and his bandwidth:P)
 
[quote author="Mazy" date=1241959506](Is there a limit on the number of questions newbies can post per week?)



Hi again guys. I appreciate your help on another question in our quest for a livable house in Irvine - This one is causing heated debates between me and my wife:



We have considered Mille Fleurs plan E and F (the ones with casita in front) and my wife likes them. I, on the other hand have a mixed feeling about the ones we have seen so far (25/29 Breezes, 64 Gentry and 61 Stowe) and don't quite like them, although can't put my finger on anything specific. The wife is accusing me of being biased toward houses with cathedral ceiling, or more established neighborhoods with more green trees, etc... Perhaps it was my fault as I was gullible enough to take the name of the plan literally and raised my expectation, but apparantly no flower there for me inside:(



We visited 64 Gentry a couple of times and I always got the feeling that the house was rather dark and gloomy. Admittedly, the plan was quite functional and it seemed to be good overall, but I like an open floor plan with many windows and it seems to me that the Mille Fleurs either do not have many windows (esp. in the living/dining rooms), or the windows are too small (and except for corner lots, open up to the neighbor's wall). I also think the lots are way too elongated and the small width leaves the houses with small and depressing yards and crammed family room and kitchen (and unfortunately, it seems to be a common feature in Irvine).



So, for those of you who have seen Mille Fleurs (esp. plans E & F) in various times of day, or possibly have lived in them for a while, have you found them "light & bright" enough? I know it's a subjective issue, but still like to hear your opinion. Thanks a lot.







<img src="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/uploads/april2008/lite.jpg" alt="" />

(Courtesy of IR and his bandwidth:P)</blockquote>
The issue that you describe between what you like and what your wive likes is a very common issue which I've encountered with a few of my buyers. I've noticed that it is usually resolved both parties settle on the WANT TO HAVE features of a home because it's difficult to settle on the MUST HAVEs.



Were the paint colors on the light or dark side? How about the window coverings? The choice of colors and window coverings can definitely make a difference in terms if a home/rooms look light or dark. Also, the newer the homes you look at in Irvine, the greater possibility that the lot size as a proportion to the size of the home will be smaller (Irvine Company wanting to squeeze out more and more profit out of an acre of land).
 
<blockquote>The wife is accusing me of being biased toward houses with cathedral ceiling, or more established neighborhoods with more green trees, etc? </blockquote>


Um, and what's wrong with those "biases"? Everybody has, and is entitled to have, things about housing they want. That you have preferences in housing is something your wife should consider and try to accommodate, just as you should consider and try to accommodate her preferences. A house you don't *both* like is a bad purchase - especially at Mille Fleurs prices!



(Full disclosure - I love my house's extensive cathedral ceilings, and would love a neighborhood with large established trees.)
 
I'm very familiar with MF... the salespeople knew me by first name I was there so much.



But you are correct... the bottom floor on most of their plans were very dark due to how the floorplan was laid out. Mostly all of them involved a central corrider that connected the front of the house with the back and a stairway in the middle. The problem with E and F is that the stairway was in the center and there weren't any windows until you get to the 2nd floor. This did two things, 1) it didn't even give a pseudo cathedral ceiling since it was an isolated column and 2) natural light from an elevated window couldn't even find its way into the bottom floor.



The first two plans (A/B & C/D) seemed brighter to me because the bottom floor corrider always sided a courtyard but the second floor on A/B and E/F were more open and had more light.



If you don't mind the extra drive, you should really look at the Plan 2 at Serra at Portola Springs... or even Plan 4 at Los Colinas. The Serra model has a huge open dining area with cathedral ceilings and prices are very close to resale prices for MF... or you can get Los Colinas for less... not as big... but lighter and brighter than the MF models.



However... if you don't have to buy now... I would wait... the prices look like they will keep dropping for at least a couple of years.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1242090745]^ Good info, IHO. I'm a vaulted-ceiling junkie myself so this is good to know.</blockquote>
I don't know anyone who doesn't like vaulted ceilings. When you walk into a home and you can keep looking up... it's always a good thing.



Since vertically there is no limitation (filling that BagOChips)... more builders should go to 9' or 10' ceilings if they can't allow for vaulted space. That was the one thing I liked about the William Lyon homes in the Ciara neighborhood in Columbus Grove (shh... don't tell NoVas). They still had areas for vaulted ceilings using the circular or L shaped stairway area but even in the rooms that had ceilings... at least they were higher than the standard 8'. I realize this is probably harder to construct and less energy efficient... but I hate feeling boxed in.
 
[quote author="FairEconomist" date=1242016203]<blockquote>The wife is accusing me of being biased toward houses with cathedral ceiling, or more established neighborhoods with more green trees, etc? </blockquote>


Um, and what's wrong with those "biases"? Everybody has, and is entitled to have, things about housing they want. That you have preferences in housing is something your wife should consider and try to accommodate, just as you should consider and try to accommodate her preferences. A house you don't *both* like is a bad purchase - especially at Mille Fleurs prices!



(Full disclosure - I love my house's extensive cathedral ceilings, and would love a neighborhood with large established trees.)</blockquote>


Sorry, my wife just disqualified you based on your disclosure!



I don't see anything wrong with that, and as USCtrojanman and you said, having these differences in taste are common. The problem is my wife is a bit impatient and insists that we should put offer on the houses that meet 80-90% of our criteria. I keep trying to calm her down saying that we have just begun our search and the only thing ahead of us in the months to come is lower prices and greater inventory, but she thinks I am being picky.



Anyways, I think I will eventually give up and go with her decision (we have already put 3 offers and all have been declined [my reaction: Phew! That was close... hehehe])
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1242090233]I'm very familiar with MF... the salespeople knew me by first name I was there so much.



But you are correct... the bottom floor on most of their plans were very dark due to how the floorplan was laid out. Mostly all of them involved a central corrider that connected the front of the house with the back and a stairway in the middle. The problem with E and F is that the stairway was in the center and there weren't any windows until you get to the 2nd floor. This did two things, 1) it didn't even give a pseudo cathedral ceiling since it was an isolated column and 2) natural light from an elevated window couldn't even find its way into the bottom floor.



The first two plans (A/B & C/D) seemed brighter to me because the bottom floor corrider always sided a courtyard but the second floor on A/B and E/F were more open and had more light.



If you don't mind the extra drive, you should really look at the Plan 2 at Serra at Portola Springs... or even Plan 4 at Los Colinas. The Serra model has a huge open dining area with cathedral ceilings and prices are very close to resale prices for MF... or you can get Los Colinas for less... not as big... but lighter and brighter than the MF models.



However... if you don't have to buy now... I would wait... the prices look like they will keep dropping for at least a couple of years.</blockquote>


Thanks for the insight IHO. I'm somewhat relieved to know that I'm not the only one finding the MFs a bit gloomy. We saw other MFs too and even my wife didn't like them: We found the C/D plans too "Wolf3D"ish (long central corridor with rooms on sides - you expect a boss jumping out in front of you every second!). I also saw a plan A/B (58 Winding Way, I think), but they killed the high ceiling by adding an optional loft... Ah, greed for more square footage I guess.



We once drove to Portola Springs to see a model house which we didn't like at all. I'll try to stop by and check out the plans you mentioned, but we don't like the extra drive and the fact that the neighborhood is quite undeveloped. Thanks anyway.
 
It closed at $1,180,000. That's 2% off inital list and 13% off peak.
 
[quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253151753]It closed at $1,180,000. That's 2% off inital list and 13% off peak.</blockquote>
How do you calculate the peak because this thing closed at $317/sf? I love how you pull info out of your ass. The peak pricing for Woodbury homes was back in late 2006/early 2007 around $440-$450/sf. So that price is about 28-30% off the peak.
 
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1253152676][quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253151753]It closed at $1,180,000. That's 2% off inital list and 13% off peak.</blockquote>
How do you calculate the peak because this thing closed at $317/sf? I love how you pull info out of your ass. The peak pricing for Woodbury homes was back in late 2006/early 2007 around $440-$450/sf. So that price is about 28-30% off the peak.</blockquote>


It's 13% off its peak purchase price. I don't care a whit about your fuzzy math.
 
[quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253153092][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1253152676][quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253151753]It closed at $1,180,000. That's 2% off inital list and 13% off peak.</blockquote>
How do you calculate the peak because this thing closed at $317/sf? I love how you pull info out of your ass. The peak pricing for Woodbury homes was back in late 2006/early 2007 around $440-$450/sf. So that price is about 28-30% off the peak.</blockquote>


It's 13% off its peak purchase price. I don't care a whit about your fuzzy math.</blockquote>
Fuzzy math? haha



27 Enchanted closed for $1,827,000 or $430/sf on 12/30/06

36 Rising Sun closed for $1,013,900 or $447/sf on 10/16/06

29 Enchanted closed for $1,600,000 or $432/sf on 8/30/06



Peak pricing isn't the price the home closed for on the previous transaction, it's what the comps were at the peak. Gotta love that MLS fuzzy math, huh?
 
It would help if you used the right community.



Mille Fleurs:



2007 21 Breezes? 3,531 $1,312,384 $372

2007 23 Breezes? 3,477 $1,338,000 $385

2007 27 Breezes? 3,477 $1,382,000 $397

Average $384



2008 20 Breezes? 3,648 $1,172,000 $321

2008 23 Lookout? 3,648 $1,200,000 $329

2008 63 Sanctuary? 3,500 $1,199,000 $343

2008 21 Winding Way? 3,477 $1,200,000 $345

2008 27 Winding Way? 3,447 $1,235,000 $358

2008 74 Fanlight? 3,648 $1,329,000 $364

2008 23 Stowe? 3,550 $1,376,800 $388

2008 52 Eclipse? 3,477 $1,425,000 $410

Average $357



2009 50 Winding Way? 3,500 $1,025,000 $293

2009 32 Gentry? 3,500 $1,075,000 $307

2009 58 Winding Way? 3,720 $1,180,000 $317

2009 30 Gentry? 3,648 $1,170,000 $321

2009 38 Gentry? 3,477 $1,120,000 $322

2009 64 Gentry? 3,700 $1,195,000 $323

2009 61 Stowe? 3,648 $1,210,000 $332

2009 24 Stowe? 3,648 $1,410,000 $387

Average $325



Like I said, 15% off peak. Your professional opinion is 30%, huh?



This is a supported post, no? Just checking.
 
[quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253154282]It would help if you used the right community.



Mille Fleurs:



2007 21 Breezes? 3,531 $1,312,384 $372

2007 23 Breezes? 3,477 $1,338,000 $385

2007 27 Breezes? 3,477 $1,382,000 $397

Average $384



2008 20 Breezes? 3,648 $1,172,000 $321

2008 23 Lookout? 3,648 $1,200,000 $329

2008 63 Sanctuary? 3,500 $1,199,000 $343

2008 21 Winding Way? 3,477 $1,200,000 $345

2008 27 Winding Way? 3,447 $1,235,000 $358

2008 74 Fanlight? 3,648 $1,329,000 $364

2008 23 Stowe? 3,550 $1,376,800 $388

2008 52 Eclipse? 3,477 $1,425,000 $410

Average $357



2009 50 Winding Way? 3,500 $1,025,000 $293

2009 32 Gentry? 3,500 $1,075,000 $307

2009 58 Winding Way? 3,720 $1,180,000 $317

2009 30 Gentry? 3,648 $1,170,000 $321

2009 38 Gentry? 3,477 $1,120,000 $322

2009 64 Gentry? 3,700 $1,195,000 $323

2009 61 Stowe? 3,648 $1,210,000 $332

2009 24 Stowe? 3,648 $1,410,000 $387

Average $325



Like I said, 15% off peak. Your professional opinion is 30%, huh?</blockquote>


Ummm... looks like 2006 was the peak. Why are you excluding 2006? Same builder, same floor plans, right?
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1253154421][quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253154282]It would help if you used the right community.



Mille Fleurs:



2007 21 Breezes? 3,531 $1,312,384 $372

2007 23 Breezes? 3,477 $1,338,000 $385

2007 27 Breezes? 3,477 $1,382,000 $397

Average $384



2008 20 Breezes? 3,648 $1,172,000 $321

2008 23 Lookout? 3,648 $1,200,000 $329

2008 63 Sanctuary? 3,500 $1,199,000 $343

2008 21 Winding Way? 3,477 $1,200,000 $345

2008 27 Winding Way? 3,447 $1,235,000 $358

2008 74 Fanlight? 3,648 $1,329,000 $364

2008 23 Stowe? 3,550 $1,376,800 $388

2008 52 Eclipse? 3,477 $1,425,000 $410

Average $357



2009 50 Winding Way? 3,500 $1,025,000 $293

2009 32 Gentry? 3,500 $1,075,000 $307

2009 58 Winding Way? 3,720 $1,180,000 $317

2009 30 Gentry? 3,648 $1,170,000 $321

2009 38 Gentry? 3,477 $1,120,000 $322

2009 64 Gentry? 3,700 $1,195,000 $323

2009 61 Stowe? 3,648 $1,210,000 $332

2009 24 Stowe? 3,648 $1,410,000 $387

Average $325



Like I said, 15% off peak. Your professional opinion is 30%, huh?</blockquote>


Ummm... looks like 2006 was the peak. Why are you excluding 2006? Same builder, same floor plans, right?</blockquote>


These were built from 2005 on. There are no other sales.
 
[quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253154282]It would help if you used the right community.



Mille Fleurs:



2007 21 Breezes? 3,531 $1,312,384 $372

2007 23 Breezes? 3,477 $1,338,000 $385

2007 27 Breezes? 3,477 $1,382,000 $397

Average $384



2008 20 Breezes? 3,648 $1,172,000 $321

2008 23 Lookout? 3,648 $1,200,000 $329

2008 63 Sanctuary? 3,500 $1,199,000 $343

2008 21 Winding Way? 3,477 $1,200,000 $345

2008 27 Winding Way? 3,447 $1,235,000 $358

2008 74 Fanlight? 3,648 $1,329,000 $364

2008 23 Stowe? 3,550 $1,376,800 $388

2008 52 Eclipse? 3,477 $1,425,000 $410

Average $357



2009 50 Winding Way? 3,500 $1,025,000 $293

2009 32 Gentry? 3,500 $1,075,000 $307

2009 58 Winding Way? 3,720 $1,180,000 $317

2009 30 Gentry? 3,648 $1,170,000 $321

2009 38 Gentry? 3,477 $1,120,000 $322

2009 64 Gentry? 3,700 $1,195,000 $323

2009 61 Stowe? 3,648 $1,210,000 $332

2009 24 Stowe? 3,648 $1,410,000 $387

Average $325



Like I said, 15% off peak. Your professional opinion is 30%, huh?



This is a supported post, no? Just checking.</blockquote>
As Graph posted, why the hell are you posting 2008 and 2009 closings? Last time I checked the peak was in 2006...so yeah, why are you excluding 2006 closings?
 
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1253154649][quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253154282]It would help if you used the right community.



Mille Fleurs:



2007 21 Breezes? 3,531 $1,312,384 $372

2007 23 Breezes? 3,477 $1,338,000 $385

2007 27 Breezes? 3,477 $1,382,000 $397

Average $384



2008 20 Breezes? 3,648 $1,172,000 $321

2008 23 Lookout? 3,648 $1,200,000 $329

2008 63 Sanctuary? 3,500 $1,199,000 $343

2008 21 Winding Way? 3,477 $1,200,000 $345

2008 27 Winding Way? 3,447 $1,235,000 $358

2008 74 Fanlight? 3,648 $1,329,000 $364

2008 23 Stowe? 3,550 $1,376,800 $388

2008 52 Eclipse? 3,477 $1,425,000 $410

Average $357



2009 50 Winding Way? 3,500 $1,025,000 $293

2009 32 Gentry? 3,500 $1,075,000 $307

2009 58 Winding Way? 3,720 $1,180,000 $317

2009 30 Gentry? 3,648 $1,170,000 $321

2009 38 Gentry? 3,477 $1,120,000 $322

2009 64 Gentry? 3,700 $1,195,000 $323

2009 61 Stowe? 3,648 $1,210,000 $332

2009 24 Stowe? 3,648 $1,410,000 $387

Average $325



Like I said, 15% off peak. Your professional opinion is 30%, huh?



This is a supported post, no? Just checking.</blockquote>
As Graph posted, why the hell are you posting 2008 and 2009 closings? Last time I checked the peak was in 2006...so yeah, why are you excluding 2006 closings?</blockquote>


Like I said, there weren't any. Here are all SFRs closed in 2006. The only ones higher were of a superior product.



189 RHAPSODY? 1,640? $775,000?

51 Rising Sun? 1,708? $815,000?

57 Midnight Sky? 1,708? $771,632?

60 LOGAN? 2,418? $959,000?

16 Rising Sun? 2,123? $949,000?

36 Rising Sun? 2,270? $1,013,900?

43 Midnight Sky? 2,620? $942,301?

55 Midnight Sky? 2,620? $1,084,250?

29 Enchanted? 3,700? $1,600,000?

28 Lamplighter? 4,216? $1,715,000?

37 Twiggs? 4,216? $1,725,000?

27 Enchanted? 4,250? $1,827,000?
 
"Last time I checked the peak was in 2006?so yeah, why are you excluding 2006 closings?"



The property in question was originally sold in 2006. Oh, the irony!
 
[quote author="NewportSkipper" date=1253155035][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1253154649]

As Graph posted, why the hell are you posting 2008 and 2009 closings? Last time I checked the peak was in 2006...so yeah, why are you excluding 2006 closings?</blockquote>


Like I said, there weren't any. Here are all SFRs closed in 2006. The only ones higher were of a superior product.

</blockquote>


You lie. Redfin shows the last sales for Winding Way in 2006 were all $1.35M or higher. Since the specific request was for the closing amount on 58 Winding Way, it only makes since to include the entire block's past sales as comps, and to include 2006 as the peak since that was the highest price.



<img src="http://www.sotoart.com/photo/Cherry-Picker.jpg" alt="" />
 
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