Investing Overseas

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
PANDA_IHB

PANDA_IHB

New member
I am looking into more investment opportunities overseas. I was wondering if anyone knows of any excellent ETF or Mutual Funds that covers the following countries and sectors that i am currently researching?



Asian Countries:

Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Phillippines



Canadian Oil and Gas Companies



European:

U.K., Switzerland, Austria, Belguim, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain.



One of mutual funds are I considering is the Dodge and Cox International Fund and Janus Overseas? Is there any excellent ETFs that would cover all these countries. I am currently in several specific country ETF, but I am sure there is a more efficient way to do this. I am trying to avoid any emerging markets (like EEM or ODVCX) where there is any question of political risks.



I am also looking at Canadian Oil and Gas companies? Is there any awesome ETFs that exist for this sector?



Lastly, I am looking to invest in property trusts in mature forieign markets. I prefer property trusts that are mostly commercial, such as those invested in industrial office buildings and shopping centers. Is there any Reits or ETF that covers this sector as well.



I am sure that there are many people on IHB, who know a lot more in investing overseas than I do. Any advice would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Panda
 
Although there is charm to investing somewhere else, in the

investing disaster to come here, basically I tell clients who ask me stuff

like this the following:



Invest where you are. If you can't figure out a better investing

mousetrap where you are, why do you think you will do better where

you have no idea whatsoever what the true conditions are?



Why do you think you are smarter than the folks who live in those

other places? They know the conditions infinitely better than you

do.



Now if you speak Chinese and want to go and live over there

for a while and scope out the lay of the land, and combine

your midwestern insight with some observation that the Chinese

haven't figured out yet, why go for it.



Or, if you feel that your gold isn't safe here, and should be put

somewhere else to avoid confiscation, I will respect that decision

while thinking it is slightly--but only slightly--extreme.



But if you want to invest in one of those places for the sheer

romance of it. Well, don't. Just don't. Your money will be safer under

your mattress.



Heck, people on the east coast of Florida couldn't figure out conditions

on the west coast of Florida. (Worse, if possible than the east coast.)
 
[quote author="lawyerliz" date=1216533591]Although there is charm to investing somewhere else, in the

investing disaster to come here, basically I tell clients who ask me stuff

like this the following:



Invest where you are. If you can't figure out a better investing

mousetrap where you are, why do you think you will do better where

you have no idea whatsoever what the true conditions are?



Why do you think you are smarter than the folks who live in those

other places? They know the conditions infinitely better than you

do.



Now if you speak Chinese and want to go and live over there

for a while and scope out the lay of the land, and combine

your midwestern insight with some observation that the Chinese

haven't figured out yet, why go for it.



Or, if you feel that your gold isn't safe here, and should be put

somewhere else to avoid confiscation, I will respect that decision

while thinking it is slightly--but only slightly--extreme.



But if you want to invest in one of those places for the sheer

romance of it. Well, don't. Just don't. Your money will be safer under

your mattress.



Heck, people on the east coast of Florida couldn't figure out conditions

on the west coast of Florida. (Worse, if possible than the east coast.)</blockquote>


Lawyerliz,



Firstly I am looking to invest overseas for the long term (20 + years). As a responsible investor, I would obviously avoid stocks with excessive losses and high debt levels. By the same logic, why wouldn't I want to avoid exposure in a nation that uses inflation as a means to repudiate its debts and deal with its economic problems, which is what the Unites States is doing right now? I am looking to invest abroad in pursuit of saftey, wealth perservation, and purchasing power protection. Currently, I feel much safer investing in developed foreign markets, than U.S. equities. Notice I did not mention investing in Emerging markets like Russia, Brazil, India, and China. In early 2007, I sold out 100% of my U.S. equity holdings.
 
I sold about 70% of mine. Pats self and Panda on back.



You are not too far from Canada now right? Howsabout going up there

and taking a look around. Perhaps investing in oil shale? Just a suggestion,

I know nothing about it other than they've got an on going market and

we have a desparate need for energy.
 
You know that our economy is in serious trouble when the Candians are looking down on us. I think the U.S. economy is in some $50 trillion in debt, while Canada has no debt. Canada, suprisingly is one of the best-positioned economies in the world in terms of natural resources and happens to be part of the natural resource block for Australia and New Zealand and, to a lesser extent, South Africa and the Scandinaian countries. I really like Canadian equities for a good long-term play.
 
I'm getting the feeling that as our dollar continues to depreciate, the Chinese currency is going to appreciate the most in the long run? Is there others on IHB who share my beliefs on this?
 
<em>"Canada has no debt."</em>



Seriously ? I know that under Clinton, we ran some sort of surplus....but don't think we were ever "out of debt". That's amazing.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1216549546]You know that our economy is in serious trouble when the Candians are looking down on us. I think the U.S. economy is in some $50 trillion in debt, while <strong>Canada has no debt</strong>. Canada, suprisingly is one of the best-positioned economies in the world in terms of natural resources and happens to be part of the natural resource block for Australia and New Zealand and, to a lesser extent, South Africa and the Scandinaian countries. I really like Canadian equities for a good long-term play.</blockquote>


Canada has NO DEBT??? You've got to be kidding right?



Canadas has 700 billion in debt. US has close to 9-10 trillion.



Before you jump to the conclusion that Canada is way better off, know that in 2004 Canada's debt was 72% of GDP while the US's was 64% of GDP (yes the war must have tilted the US's debt somewhat since that time). Per capita, Canada's debt in 2005 was about 21,000$ USD, while the US's was around 27,500$. But GDP per capita was about 36,000$ in Canada and in the US was around 45,000$. Either way you slice it, it's debatable Canada has smaller debt when you compare the economic power of the two countries, and if there is an advantage for Canada it's pretty slim.



I'm a Canadian who moved to work here. How often do you hear about Californians moving to Vancouver or Montreal because they were offered a better job there? It happens, of course, but by and large the migration of talent tends to be from north to south. I was born and raised in Canada, and believe me I can tell you the level of inovation, research and capital investment that happens back home is peanuts compared to what happens out here. Having a bunch of oil deposits that are now commercially viable because oil is now at 130$/barell is all well and nice, but the innovation engine in North America is still the United States, especially California.



Yes, the american economy is going down the tubes and there's going to be a major adjustment in the value of all forms of american assets and assets tied to the american dollar. But I don't doubt one bit that beyond the current 1 to 3 year slump we're in for, that innovation engine will still be found here, and that ultimately that will be a much more dependable driver of value than dwindling oil reserves.
 
[quote author="muzie" date=1216562625][quote author="PANDA" date=1216549546]You know that our economy is in serious trouble when the Candians are looking down on us. I think the U.S. economy is in some $50 trillion in debt, while <strong>Canada has no debt</strong>. Canada, suprisingly is one of the best-positioned economies in the world in terms of natural resources and happens to be part of the natural resource block for Australia and New Zealand and, to a lesser extent, South Africa and the Scandinaian countries. I really like Canadian equities for a good long-term play.</blockquote>




Canadas has 700 billion in debt. US has close to 9-10 trillion.

</blockquote>


Muzie, are you 100% about this fact. I read in many books and articles that the U.S.'s debt is in the upwards of $50 - $70 trillion dollars. The statement of Canada having no debt, I actually heard from couple of friends, which may be less credible.



Can anyone on IHB confirm this on who's fact is accurate on U.S. debt?



Panda
 
The US debt officially is just under 10T.



If you add in unfunded liabilities you come to a much much bigger

number, from Medicare, SS etc.



If you add in State and local debt you come to a bigger number

still.



I think the main diff between the 10T and the truly stupedous figures

cited, you are adding in the unfunded liabilities. And it isn't known

how much they will be.
 
[quote author="lawyerliz" date=1216594137]The US debt officially is just under 10T.



If you add in unfunded liabilities you come to a much much bigger

number, from Medicare, SS etc.



If you add in State and local debt you come to a bigger number

still.



I think the main diff between the 10T and the truly stupedous figures

cited, you are adding in the unfunded liabilities. And it isn't known

how much they will be.</blockquote>
That's government debt liz, and I suspect that the $50 Trillion number is all inclusive of public and private debt. Adding personal debt (mortgages, HELOCs, credit cards, etc.), company debt (in the form of bonds, loans, etc.) to the government debt could conceivably reach that amount.
 
Yes, 50 trillion would be <strong>future</strong> debt and obligations, but it's an apples and oranges comparison at this point. But using the same argument you could argue that the US future debt is infinite since the deficit keeps growing every year.



As far as future obligations go, social security in Canada is subtantially different, with average retirement benefit of 500$/month vs. 1000$/month in the US. The US government simply promised too much, but then again having seniors survive on 500$/month is kind of a joke too. Canadian social security is no more solvent in the far future than the in the US. In Canada, pension cost would have to increase from the current 5% of wages to 15% or so (the current US level for both employer and employee contributions). Did I mention households above 75,000$ in income pay a marginal tax rate of 46% on top of that?



Your friends probably meant that the Canadian government has had a YEARLY budget surplus since 2001. In the 80s and 90s, the situation was opposite, and Canada ran up more debt with respect to GDP than the US did every year for 20 years. So Canada has quite a bit of catching up to do, anad a lot of that fiscal responsibility must come from the windfall of rising oil prices.



I don't think Canadian oil is a bad investment - you invest in a resource that has significant upside in the future in one of the few countries with oil deposits that is politically stable. I just don't think the canadian government has anything to do with this lucky event, and I disagree with the conclusion that because of this the Canadian economy is sturdier than the US in the other sectors.
 
Does anyone have any information on the future potential of the Asian currencies against the U.S. Dollar?



I am currently doing some research on possibly converting more my dollars into Asian Currencies. I am looking for alternative strategies outside of precious metals and oil to protect my purchasing power in the United States if things start to get really bad here. Would you consider this to be a dangerous move or wise move in the current state of our economy? Some of the currencies I am researching are the following:



1. Chinese Yuan Renminbi, 2. Hong Kong Dollar, 3. Indian Rupee, 4. Japanese Yen, 5. Korean Won, and 6. Singaporian Dollar.



If there are any Native Asians on this forum who can give me some good insights on this topic, Panda would greatly appreciate it.



Panda.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top