Going green - windpower

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Trooper_IHB

Trooper_IHB

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<a href="http://news.aol.com/story/_a/first-us-town-powered-solely-by-wind/20080715164609990001">Missouri town powered solely by the wind</a>



<img src="http://www.freefoto.com/images/39/01/39_01_58---Wind-Turbine-Generators--Palm-Springs--California_web.jpg?&k=Wind+Turbine+Generators,+Palm+Springs,+California" alt="" />
 
Funny you should mention that. I was talking with someone who was talking with someone from a small homebuilder / developer the other day and they said that they were anticipating using their undeveloped land for green power (wind, solar, etc.). Maybe its just putting lipstick on a pig, but assuming they could get the local public entity to provide them the needed permits and zoning, why not? Might as well make some use of the land to generate some revenue rather than leaving it vacant.
 
From what I understand, if you take the risk and do somewhat of the maintence the Govt. has programs that will let you purchase wind generators at STEEP discounts. That and you get money BACK from the utilities. The main downside is you usually need to have a "Battery" house to store that generated electricity. Usually those are expensive and can be quite danger (electrical shock, converters and inverters, specialized houses that are explosion proof...etc. etc.).



I like it though. I would like to see more thermal sinks in houses as well as an addition to hot water on demand.

good luck

-bix
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1216269215]To get money back from the utility, you need to connect to the e-grid to "spin" the meter backward. If you are connect to the e-grid, you don't need the batteries to store the energy, so you don't need to explosion proof the room due to the H2 gas. DC-AC Converter are much more reliable these does days, and the electrical shock is not much more common than regular commerical wiring.</blockquote>


Sorry, I didn't fully explain my plans (have researched this for a off the grid home).



1. Store a nominalized amount of energy to have a "UPS/Battery" to supply whatever home needs you have (10KW?, 3 Phase?). IMHO wind electric needs a battery system. Batteries usually smooth out the power delivery (think capacitor or in fluid terms accumulator), you're not likely to get any harmful spikes in either direction.



2. Once that system is fully charged you need a converter/inverter (bi-modal) to switch over to the powergrid to "sell" the excess energy back. Being a bi-modal system you can also charge the batteries off the grid if wind is not cooperating with you.



You can run completely off the wind power, but its a use it or lose it (its also quite uneven power delivery unless you have MASSIVE converter/inverter systems. And its not one battery its several banks of batteries ( remember most homes use KW/h, so your battery needs can be quite extreme.... I'd just rather be safe than have exploding batteries (been there done that.. its not fun)).



Have fun it you decide to do it. I'm currently helping a buddy design and develop some high efficiency solar cell for satellite work. They aren't cheap, but hopefully in about 5-10 years they will be able to develop significant power outputs/costs to everyday useful.



good luck

-bix
 
Wind power is getting popular in my hometown in Massachusetts. One windmill creates enough energy to power all the street lights in the town (it's a small town). Another windmill powers the schools, police dept, and fire dept. The extra power that isn't used by those buildings goes to reducing the resident's electric bill. It's pretty amazing.



I have been researching windmill companies as an investment opportunity. Anyone have any companies in mind?
 
That is so cool. The spike in oil prices could very well end up being a blessing in disguise. A wind mill wouldn't be any more of an eye sore than a power pole. I know they usually put them in farms out of site, but I don't see why they couldn't replace all the poles here in CM with wind mills and bury all these ugly cables. Are they noisy?We get quite a bit of wind here and lots of sun. Although the two hawks that come to rest up before the twilight hunt would have to find a new roost.



Between Ca's go solar, utility credits and fed tax credits, solar is quite subsidized. The economist did a a special report on alternative energy recently and the costs are getting much closer to coal. They said that there is so much uncertainty about whether a carbon tax will be coming that nearly every planned coal fired plant has been put on hold or cancelled. And there's that oil billionaire out in Texas who is builidng a plant powered by wind. I just wonder if even with the incentives, it's better to wait a while on solar because so much R&D;is going in it that what we have today may look like a dinosaur in a few years time.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1216281933] I just wonder if even with the incentives, it's better to wait a while on solar because so much R&D;is going in it that what we have today may look like a dinosaur in a few years time.</blockquote>
I recently wrote the same thing on another forum I'm on. Solar tech is not that far along. Yet there needs to be a balance between providing enough of a market and incentives for developing the technology, and conserving resources for a not-so-distant point in the future where the payoff is much better than today. A good target for alternative energy is currently $1/W. SCE charges me $.16 for each marginal KW-H I use. At $1/W the payoff is getting close to palatable.
 
Two years ago I bought PBW, an alternative energy fund and so far the return is negative still. I don't think I picked a very good one, but I remember buying China and Emerging Market funds in late '02 and they were negative until '04 and then the China one returned over 200% in three years. And I didn't even pick a good China fund. My gambles are never really large, so it wasn't any kind of windfall and then I took the money and put it into a house!





The Economist special report named off companies that have some great potential. Does anyone know of any particular stocks or funds that are worth looking at?
 
[quote author="skek" date=1216282565]Green tech is where all the private equity action is. All the tech hedgies are scrambling to get a piece of any technology with a hint of promise. Wind, solar, hydro, biofuels, W2E, clean vehicles (hybrid, electric and E85), battery power -- all getting funded. No small feat in this economic climate. If you want to jump on the next bubble at the early stages...</blockquote>


<em>**Le sigh**</em> You forgot CNG vehicles (the Honda Civic GX has been named the cleanest car on earth) and geothermal (i.e., "How I stopped worrying and learned to love the volcano"). CNG vehicles would be a nice interim choice until hydrogen is mature. The technology has been around for decades. The military used CNG during WWII. The only thing missing is the freaking infrastructure. Had Ahhnooold focused on putting a CNG station every 20 miles rather than the then-undeveloped hydrogen, people would have more choice and cleaner air. <em>**Waives "Hi" to T. Boone Pickens**</em>



As for geothermal, the State offers some nice incentives (and not just through the CPCFA). Berkshire has (or had) a subsidiary with one down at the Salton Sea. One of the downsides to geothermal, of course, is that volcanoes are not as numerous as they would need to be to make building plants reasonably common (hence, economically viable). Then again, people are also talking about building nuke plants again, and I don't think those were ever economically viable.



The downsides to wind? Yes, they make noise, but I believe that the current version of the windmills are more quiet. The other downside is that birds have a tendency to not notice the fan blades. Apparently, the ones in the Banning Pass take out a lot of birds of prey. I have often wondered if that could be minimized by building tall nets around each group of windmills, like they do for driving ranges. (<---- I'm willing to admit that that may be a stupid idea, but I still wonder.) On the whole, though, I don't think the birds are a good reason to stop wind generation. I'm sure if we gave some habitat back, that would help the birds even more.
 
New Zealand has been taking advantage of the geo thermal thing for a while now. In fact, I heard an interesting tidbit that an apple grown in NZ and shipped to NY has a smaller carbon foot print than an apple grown in NY. They said it's because so much of NZ's power is renewable and they don't overdose on the petro chemical based fertilizers.
 
There is a "stealth" way to play the wind energy market that not many people are aware of. Most people are concentrating on components that go into windmills, battery systems to store power, wiring to get power onto the grid, or commercial operators of wind farms. But there is another angle here.



What about doing things to promote more wind?



Trees are natural wind breaks. If we cut down ALL the trees, we will have more wind.



Buy Black and Decker...
 
Eva, this might be bird friendly...and would take up less "wing span". ;)



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