Do you mind paying HOA and Mello roos?

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For those of you who live in a community like woodbury , portola springs, do you mind paying for the hefty HOA?? i love their houses but i can't seem to get myself to pay couple hundred a month on HOA.....and mello roos. And do you think its worth the price?
 
I think HOAs are fine b/c they can add other amenities to a neighborhood that are not offered at others. I grew up back east and neighborhoods look much different and than out here. Less curb appeal, no center dividers, and very few have parks located in the center of the neighborhood.



As for Mello-Roos I think it's a bunch of horse CRAP. I still have not fully gulped the idea that I pay property taxes, sales taxes, and income taxes...however the govt can allow home builders to create bonds to tax me on the infrastructure needed to build the neighborhood I live in. Back home property taxes are the same and we never paid a "mello-roos".
 
i agree with you mino. i dont get the mello roos. i am okay with HOA. My husband is totally against paying mello roos. But the "additional" fees could add up to $400 a month! i just dont get it.
 
I don't mind it so much (the concept anyway). Up here in LA Co, you can't find a public school worth a crap (save Manhattan Beach School District and a handful of others). So what do all of my friends do? Send their children to private schools - at great expense. So from my particular reference, I can buy "new" in Irvine, pay 6K of melo-roos/year, and still end up ahead of my cohorts. Yes, I do realize that the general property tax (alone) is suppost to take care education related issues, and that melo-roos isn't really attributable to schools/education... but when you are figuring things in terms of one bill over another... it doens't bother me so much. Now if I already lived in IRvine and didn't pay melo-roos, I can see where the additional fees would drive me crazy.
 
Well, prop 13 necessitated the expanded scope of Assessment Districts, hence the mello-roos act. Having done some work on these CFD's, I'd have to agree that they have been misused by builders. The purpose of the CFD is to pay for the installation of infrastructure, new schools, and mainenance, however, the developer can throw any other fees he'd like into that pot, i.e. affordable home in lieu fees, etc (as opposed to forming an assessment district which would required justification as to which expenses are included).



i believe, if a developer wants to maxamize their benefit of the CFD and drive the prop tax rate to near 2%, that should be reflected as a discount in the home price, however, during the peak of the bubble, this was probably not the case.



But before you completely blame the developer, a public entity has to approve and vote on creating a CFD issuing municipal bonds. Unfortunatley, that public entity could be a school district or water district which developers often turn to.



Another issue is the stability of these municipal bonds related to mello-roos districts, i think there is a minor concern that some could fail, especially in the inland empire, where bonds have been issued but no houses were built, no houses means no residents and a bankrupt developer means no tax payments, fortunately, these are all insured by mbia etc , but as we all saw last week, there are still some jitters there. Again, this is something that happened in the 90's.
 
<p> </p>

<p><strong><u>Private Transfer Fees Part 1</u></strong></p>

<p>Here is a new twist for buyers and sellers to deal with. This is a fairly recent addition to costs of certain homes. Both ladera and Talega have community Benifit fees that go with the land. </p>

<p>There is a new required disclosure by the seller to pass the information along.</p>

<p>Q What are private transfer fees (PTFs)? </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>A </strong>Private transfer fees (PTFs) are fees imposed by private parties which require the payment of a specified amount of money (usually a percentage of the sales price) upon subsequent sales of the real property. Such fees are normally recorded on new common interest subdivisions by the developer to pay either the developer or a third party entity (sometimes created by the developer).</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> </p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 2. <em>How do PTFs affect Sellers</em></strong></p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>A </strong>PTFs could substantially increase the cost for buyers to purchase property. In the event that a buyer discovers the existence of such a fee, and discovers that thousands of additional dollars must be paid in order to purchase the property, the buyer may choose to cancel.</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 3. <em>How are PTFs calculated?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>An illustration may best explain how PTFs are calculated. For this example, if a developer imposes a 1% PTF in perpetuity on a new development and indicates that the fee will be paid to a newly formed LLC. The original purchaser buys the new home for $500,000, then that buyer sells the property for $750,000 in ten years. The second buyer would need to pay $7,500 to the LLC upon the purchase, or a lien would be recorded against the property. If the second buyer then sells the property for $1,000,000 in fifteen years, then the third buyer would need to pay $10,000 to the LLC, or another lien would be recorded. Some PTFs continue forever, while others expire a certain number of years after the first sale of the property.</p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 4. <em>What types of fees and taxes are not considered PTFs?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>The following are specifically not considered PTFs:</p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Government Imposed Fees and Taxes;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Lender Fees, Charges and Required Payments;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Common Interest Association Assessments, Charges, Penalties and Fees which


are properly authorized (e.g. homeowner association dues), and association transfer fees;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Mechanic’s Lien Fees;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Court-Ordered Transfers, Payments and Judgments;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Divorce or Separation Related Fees;</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Probate and Trust Administration Fees, Charges and Payments; and</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">• Fees, Charges and Payments for Failing to Comply with Obligations to Construct Residential


Improvements.</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">(Cal. Civ. Code § 1098.)</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 5. <em>Why were PTFs formed?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>Some of these fees were created in response to litigation over the environmental impacts that a proposed development would have, and as a means of mitigating some of the effects of the development. However, nothing in the law specifically requires that PTFs be used to address or reduce the effects of development.</p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>PTF Part 2</strong></p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong></strong></p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 6. <em>How prevalent are PTFs?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>Currently, only a few housing developments in California have PTFs. Many new developments built by Lennar Homes and Freehold Development have these PTFs. In addition, several other developments (Westpark Project in Roseville, Gray’s Crossing in Truckee, Martis Camp in Placer County, El Rancho San Benito in San Benito County) have also imposed PTFs. C.A.R. will be establishing a link on C.A.R.’s website which contains updated information on all PTFs that C.A.R. knows about, including the name of the development, the location, the amount of the PTF, and who will be receiving money from the PTF. Because C.A.R. may not know of all existing properties affected by PTFs, members are encouraged to send information to C.A.R. regarding any PTFs that they are aware of so that the information on the website can be as comprehensive as possible.</p>



<p><strong>Q 7. <em>How much are PTFs?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>Currently, PTFs range from 0.05% of the purchase price to 1.75% of the purchase price. PTFs can also be a flat amount that is not dependent upon the purchase price. There is no legal limitation on the amount of or method of calculation of any PTF.</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 8. <em>Why was the new PTF legislation passed?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>Assembly Bill 980 (AB 980)--adding California Civil Code Sections 1098, 1098.5, and 1102.6e-- was passed in order to make a PTF unenforceable unless a document describing the PTF is separately recorded, and also to require clear disclosures to all purchasers of properties which have PTFs. The intent of this law is to ensure that once PTFs are recorded their existence will be obvious to current and prospective purchasers of the property. Developers will be held accountable for such fees, and such open disclosure should help to curb potential abuses. Furthermore, buyers will be able to make more informed decisions about the costs of purchasing the property prior to concluding their due diligence.</p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 9. <em>What does the new PTF legislation require?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>The new law provides that 1) any person or entity imposing a PTF must simultaneously record the instrument creating the PTF and a separate notice of “Payment of Transfer Fee Required,” and 2) sellers of properties subject to PTFs must disclose the existence and nature of the PTFs to buyers. (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 1098.5, 1102.6e.)</p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>



<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></p>
 
<p>PTF Part 3</p>

<p><strong>Q 10. <em>When must this new “Payment of Transfer Fee Required” </em></strong><strong><em>document be recorded and what information must be on it?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>For all PTFs imposed after December 31, 2007, the developer will be required to record, concurrently with recording the document creating the PTF, an information form with the title “Payment of Transfer Fee Required” in at least 14-point bold type. This document must include the following information: (1) the names of all current owners subject to the fee ; (2) the legal description and assessor’s parcel number for the affected property; (3) the amount of the fee (either a dollar amount if it is a flat fee, or the percentage of the sales price); (4) the date such fee expires, if any; (5) the purposes for which the fee will be used; (6) the entity to whom the fee will be paid and the contact information for the entity; (7) the signature of the authorized representative of the entity receiving the fee; and (8) examples of the amount of the fee based on sales prices of $250,000, $500,000, and $750,000 if the affected property is residential property. (Cal. Civ. Code § 1098.5(b).)</p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 11. <em>Must the form "Payment of Treansfer Fee Required" be recorded </em></strong><strong><em>for already existing PTF’s?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>Yes. For all PTFs imposed prior to January 1, 2008, the recipient of the fee must file this “Payment of Transfer Fee Required” form by December 31, 2008 in order to continue to collect the fee. (Cal. Civ. Code § 1098.5(a).)</p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><strong>Q 12. <em>What are the seller disclosure requirements for PTFs?


</em></strong><strong>A </strong>In addition to the above-described requirements for the recipient of the fee (usually the developer), under the new law, for all transfers which occur after December 31, 2007, sellers will have a duty to disclose certain information about PTFs on a separate disclosure statement at the same time the Transfer Disclosure Statement (TDS) is provided (Cal. Civ. Code § 1102.6e.)</p>

<p> </p>

<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">This disclosure statement must include the following information: (1) notice of the required transfer fee; (2) the amount of the fee and basis for calculating the amount; (3) the entity to whom this fee will be paid; (4) the purposes for which the fee will be used; (5) the date such fee expires, if any; and (6) a notice that the final amount may be different if the fee is based on a percentage of the sales price (Cal. Civ. Code § 1102.6e.) C.A.R. has prepared a new standard form, Notice of Transfer Fee (C.A.R. Form NTF), which can be used to disclose this information.</p>
 
<p>Ok, I just skimmed this, but this is unbelievable. I think it is probably unconstitutional as a restraint on alienation. </p>

<p>Aren't you guys getting a warranty deed? Some developers tried this in Hendry, but only for a couple a years, supposedly to inhibit flippers.</p>

<p>This sounds like ground rent which we paid in Balto. The house we'd owned for years and years wasn't fee simple. But the unsophisticated people who created this, in umm, the 1890s didn't allow for inflation so the ground rent was hardly anything.</p>

<p>The legistrature allowed this. Must have been paid lots of bribes, err, campaign contributions.</p>

<p>Environmental issues, my round little fanny!!!</p>
 
<p>LL</p>

<p>CAR tried to get legislation passed last year to prevent it unless it benifited the community the house was in but was unsuccessful. (CAR does do some positive things)</p>

<p>Lennar started doing this about 5 years ago for cash flow and also to donate to charity and then take corporate tax deductions. It is legal and can be used for any purpose. </p>

<p>As far as wheather the buyer or seller pays it that is for negotiation at time of resale.</p>

<p>I could put it on any property I own and as long as I disclose it and someone buys it then it is like a deed restriction. </p>

<p>Life in California Real Estate is very complicated. Ca is not a warrenty deed state. Az is a warrenty deed state.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Regards</p>
 
Mello Roos is the main reason we are looking at older homes in Woodbridge vs. the new shiny ones in Woodbury,etc. HOA fees, I don't have a problem paying, but I don't want to pay extra money just to live in a new development.
 
Mello-Roos = BS in my book....another way for the govt not to pay for basic necessities and rather spend it on Art Deco projects lining the free-way between Santa Ana and Disney Land.





HOA's those are fine. As I stated before many of the neighborhoods here in So Cal have drastically more upgrades and amenities that not only create value but also create a beautiful and safe neighborhoods.



 
...except when they get all bent out of shape for things like <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/association-nate-nuisance-1982933-paul-vehicle">a kid wanting to park his car/former ambulance in his neighborhood</a>. BTW, the association here is Northpark.
 
I was going to post that link, but cali beat me to it. How is this person's choice of vehicles contributing to a "safe and beautiful" neighborhood?



This is exactly why I want to move to North Tustin and why I'll NEVER live somewhere with an association. I had friends who used to live in an HOA where you couldn't park a pickup in view of the street. These were high digit homes, but still......it's not like you're leaving a car on blocks in the driveway.
 
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