Civil Rights protections are too important to leave to "popular" voting: Prop 8

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NoWowway_IHB

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There are at least 3 lawsuits in the works to challenge prop 8.



<em>http://www.365gay.com/news/sf-city-attorney-prepares-legal-challenge-to-prop-8/</em>One of the suits is planned by City of San Francisco attorney Dennis Herrera?s office. A second is by the three LGBT groups that won the historic California Supreme Court ruling that allowed same-sex marriage in the state. The third is by one of the couples who were married after the court ruling went into effect in May.



All three suits would begin if Prop 8 passes.



With 95 percent of the vote in across California the ?Yes? votes have a slim lead: 52 - 48 percent. Though some outlets called the ballot measure in favor of the anti-gay ban a few hours ago, as many as 3 million ballots - late absentee and provisional ballots - are left to be counted.



It is those ballots that opponents of the amendment are counting on for the measure?s defeat. But most political watchers in the state say it is unlikely the additional ballots will change the result.



The American Civil Liberties Union, Lambda Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights filed a writ petition before the California Supreme Court on Wednesday, a preliminary move to a suit.



The petition charges that Proposition 8 is invalid because the initiative process was improperly used in an attempt to undo the constitution?s core commitment to equality for everyone, by eliminating a fundamental right from just one group ? lesbian and gay Californians.



The petition also says that Proposition 8 improperly attempts to prevent the courts from exercising their essential constitutional role of protecting the equal protection rights of minorities. The groups in the petition say that under the California Constitution, such radical changes to the organizing principles of state government cannot be made by simple majority vote through the initiative process, but instead must, at a minimum, go through the state legislature first.



The California Constitution itself sets out two ways to alter the document that sets the most basic rules about how state government works, the groups said in a statement.



Through the initiative process, voters can make relatively small changes to the constitution. But any measure that would change the underlying principles of the constitution must first be approved by the legislature before being submitted to the voters. That didn?t happen with Proposition 8, and that?s why it?s invalid, the petition said.



?If the voters approved an initiative that took the right to free speech away from women, but not from men, everyone would agree that such a measure conflicts with the basic ideals of equality enshrined in our constitution. Proposition 8 suffers from the same flaw ? it removes a protected constitutional right - here, the right to marry - not from all Californians, but just from one group of us,? said Jenny Pizer, Senior Counsel with Lambda Legal. ?That?s too big a change in the principles of our constitution to be made just by a bare majority of voters.?



Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, the first lesbian couple to be legally married in Los Angeles County, also plan a lawsuit against Proposition 8.



Their attorney, Gloria Allred, said the suit would argue that the measure is unconstitutional.



Proposition 8 is the first time such a vote has taken place in state where gay unions are legal.



A study by the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law indicated that by Election Day 2008, approximately18,000 same-sex couples had married in California.



Exit polls reported by CNN show that while a slim majority of white voters said they rejected the amendment, an equally slim majority of African American and Hispanic voters said they had voted for the amendment.



The battle for and against the measure, known as Proposition 8, cost more than $70 million, making it one of the most expensive ballot campaigns in history. Much of the money on both sides came from outside California.



Similar bans on same-sex marriage were approved by voters Tuesday in Florida and Arizona; while in Arkansas the electorate endorsed a measure to prevent same-sex couples from adopting.
 
<em>Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, the first lesbian couple to be legally married in Los Angeles County</em>



Thanks for the post Nowow. I was at Robin and Diane's wedding. It was wonderful...



I just got home and am tired. Will read this article tomorrow and comment on it. Thx for posting.
 
As one blogger I read put it:



<blockquote>[R]egardless of how one feels about gay marriage, here's the deal: Voters passed prop 22, which banned gay marriage. The ban went to the supreme court of California, which found it unconstitutional, since California's constitution says we should treat everyone equally.



In other words, we just voted to change the constitution in order to say that everyone should <strong>not</strong> be treated equally.



That is a big. [Farking]. Deal. </blockquote>
 
In July 08, the Supreme Court of California denied a petition to remove Prop 8 from the ballot based on the exact same legal argument. It would appear that California judiciary doesn?t want to touch this issue with a ten-foot pole.



<a href="http://www.volokh.com/posts/1225923130.shtml">Here?s a link </a>to a discussion about the issue from a legal scholar in the field. It's not optimistic.



I'm curious about the title of this thread? Who should be alowed decide such issues if not the people? The courts? Are you then willing to defer to SCOTUS's express denial of protected status to homosexuals?
 
<em>In July 08, the Supreme Court of California denied a petition to remove Prop 8 from the ballot based on the exact same legal argument</em>



The approve stated is true, and very ironic, don't you think ? They rule denying gays the right to marry is unconstitutional, yet then allow it to go to a popular vote. :-S



So here's a hypothetical:



I wish to start a petition today, for inclusion on the next ballot, that defines marriage as that only between a white man and a white woman.



I could, quite possibly, obtain enough signatures to validate it. Certainly many gay people I know would symbolically sign it just to prove how ridiculous and unnecessary we think Prop 8 was.



How would you feel, if I had the right to vote on <em>your</em> marriage ?! I mean, who the hell am I to do such a thing, right ??? It's your personal business and none of mine.... but heck, why not !



I hope you all understand my frustration and will allow me some leeway to vent. Thank you.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226118026]<em>I wish to start a petition today, for inclusion on the next ballot, that defines marriage as that only between a white man and a white woman</em></blockquote>


The obvious difference in your scenario is that limiting marriage to a white man and white woman would run afoul of the federal constitution's equal protection provisions and would therefore be struck down if it ever passed (which it clearly would not). Unlike the California constitution, the federal constitution may not be amended by mere popular vote. Preventing homosexuals from getting married is, at least as of today, completely permissible under the federal constitution and is reinforced by the Defense of Marriage Act.
 
Several people have PM'd me asking if there were any Orange County protest locations and indeed there are. So, if anyone is interested in showing support, here are the locations occurring statewide for the next 3 days.



<a href="http://www.noonprop8.com/events/community-gatherings">Statewide locations</a>
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226118026]

I wish to start a petition today, for inclusion on the next ballot, that defines marriage as that only between a white man and a white woman.

...

I hope you all understand my frustration and will allow me some leeway to vent. Thank you.</blockquote>


I think the proposition that would be much more amusing would the one that makes 'marriage' a binding agreement and eliminates the option for divorce.



People can then choose if they wish to be married or have a civil union.



Oh and one tiny rant, is this State really stupid enough to allow modification the constitution by a mere 50% + 1 vote margin?
 
I think some straight couple should sue the state because they have to get "married" rather than "unioned" (i.e., a civil union). Only elderly and same sex couples can be unioned, and if it's good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for the rest of us? IIRC, many of the useful constitutional cases involving gender prior to the seating of Justice O'Connor, involved men challenging certain laws. Counsel on some of those cases? Now Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg. I think the "shoe on the other foot" argument works pretty well at pointing out ridiculous distinctions.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1226151922]IIRC, many of the useful constitutional cases involving gender prior to the seating of Justice O'Connor, involved men challenging certain laws. Counsel on some of those cases? Now Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg.</blockquote>


I'm not sure what your point is, but if it's that this line of cases would somehow been decided differently if there were females on the court, I disagree. In Lawrence v. Texas, O'Connor very explicitly stated that limiting marriage to heterosexuals by a state solely based on society's moral judgment was permissible.



Her concurring opinion:



"That this law as applied to private, consensual conduct is unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause does not mean that other laws distinguishing between heterosexuals and homosexuals would similarly fail under rational basis review. Texas cannot assert any legitimate state interest here, such as national security or <strong>preserving the traditional institution of marriage</strong>. Unlike the moral disapproval of same-sex relations?the asserted state interest in this case?other reasons exist to promote the institution of marriage beyond mere moral disapproval of an excluded group."
 
<em>http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_10934458?nclick_check=1</em>



SANTA CRUZ -- City leaders could be joining other cities around the state in a lawsuit to challenge the passage of Proposition 8 -- the successful measure that took away the right of same-sex couples to marry -- on the grounds the measure is unconstitutional.



"It's an important issue and the city needs to play a role," said Mayor Ryan Coonerty, who hopes to bring the proposal before the City Council at its Nov. 25 meeting.



Coonerty said he was especially motivated to bring the issue up after hastily marrying gay couples last weekend and on Election Day that were worried they would not have the right to wed much longer.



"It's shocking that people are forced into these situations, where they're rushing to get married because they don't know what their legal status will be," Coonerty said. "It's shameful."



Voters on Tuesday overturned this year's state Supreme Court ruling that made gay marriage possible. Proposition 8 amends California's Constitution to define marriage as between a woman and a man.



Coonerty said the city would likely join a suit with leaders in San Francisco to argue that the proposition was illegal because it took away a fundamental constitutional right from a select group of people. Before such propositions can go to the ballot, supporters allege, the state Legislature must approve them. That did not happen.



The American Civil Liberties Union, Lambda



Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights have filed a similar court petition.



County leaders are expected to take up a similar legal move proposed by county Supervisor Neal Coonerty, Ryan Coonerty's father.



That was good news to Glen Schaller, campaign manager for the Santa Cruz County No on 8 campaign.



"I'm very proud of the county and city of Santa Cruz for joining the lawsuits to make sure marriage equality continues in California," said Schaller, noting that 71 percent of county voters were against Proposition 8.



Opponents of Proposition 8 will hold a rally at 7 p.m. tonight at the Santa Cruz Town Clock. An "Interfaith Gathering of Support and Prayer for Marriage Equality and against Bigotry Saturday Night" will follow at 8 p.m. at First Congregational Church, 900 High St., Santa Cruz.



Contact G. Bookwalter at 706-3286 or gbookwalter@santacruzsentinel.com.
 
<a href="http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Calif-Supreme-Court-to-Hear-Legal-Challenges-to-Prop-8.html">It's not over yet.</a>
 
<a href="http://graphjam.com/2008/11/19/song-chart-memes-consequences-of-gay-marriage/"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-10971" title="gaymarriage" src="http://graphjam.wordpress.com/files/2008/11/gaymarriage.gif" alt="song chart memes" /></a>
more <a href="http://graphjam.com">music charts</a>
 
As Anon. said.....



<span style="font-size: 14px;"><strong>Calif. Supreme Court to Hear Legal Challenges to Prop 8</strong></span>



<a href="http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Calif-Supreme-Court-to-Hear-Legal-Challenges-to-Prop-8.html">Link</a>



<em>In May of 2008, the California Supreme Court held that barring same-sex couples from marriage violates the equal protection clause of the California Constitution and violates the fundamental right to marry. Proposition 8 would completely eliminate the right to marry only for same-sex couples. No other initiative has ever successfully changed the California Constitution to take away a right only from a targeted minority group.



Over the past 100 years, the California Supreme Court has heard nine cases challenging either legislative enactments or initiatives as invalid revisions of the California Constitution. In three of those cases, the Court invalidated those measures</em>.
 
Excerpt from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk">Harvey Milk's</a> famous "Hope" speech. In 1977, he was the first openly gay person ever elected to office in California. A movie about his life and legacy is set for release on 11/26.



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>
 
Now this is a RIOT !



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>
 
Rachel Maddow details who voted for the ban on gay marriage. Might be suprising.





<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>
 
That doesn't surprise me at all.



And damn, my youtube link went down....let me find another one.



edit:



Here's the video again. Takes about 10 seconds to load.



<a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8/prop-8-the-musical-starring-jack-black-john-c-reilly-and-many-more-from-fod-team-jack-black-craig-robinson-john-c-reilly-and-rashida-jones">Prop 8: The Musical</a>
 
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