Casero - Portola Springs

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kayochan

Active member
Casero by StanPac in Portola Springs info is up:

Casero
Coming Soon
Standard Pacific Homes
1,909 - 2,330 Sq. Ft.
From the Low $600,000's.

Looks like they will be alley loaded:
http://www.villagesofirvine.com/Villages-And-Residences/Portola-Springs-Overview.aspx?type=neighborhood&Id=60
 
They look like row homes as well.  Similar to the Bougainvillas and the Cachettes of the world.  Another floor plan where the fireplace is in the center of the great room.  No TV wall again!!!
 
Who uses their fireplace?  Even in winter i would never consider using it..  Can't believe this is what people want in TIC's surveys...  TV/media wall is much more functional for me and I would guess for most families
 
Plan 1 seems to have a media wall but then you would put a sofa  in front of the fireplace...  c'mon builders how hard is it to have two bare walls facing each other in the "Great" room?
 
Not bad layouts but the total square footage is pretty small for what they are offering.  does not look like there is a lot of outdoor space except for plan 1.
 
Me too.

At least they put downstairs bedrooms in 2 of the 3... and lofts too.

+: Separate master shower
-:  No sink in upstairs laundry

The alley garages forces these to have those small sideyards.
 
annabanana said:
More homes on the southern enclave of PS.  I wonder when they will build more on the northern enclave.
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I don't know but looks like they changed the site plan for PS (see the villagesofirvine site and the PS village map).  It used to have bigger lots.  I think they were going to be los colinas lots on the western edge of the northern enclave.  Now it looks like those lots are for smaller alley/motorcourt type homes.
 
kayochan said:
annabanana said:
More homes on the southern enclave of PS.  I wonder when they will build more on the northern enclave.
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I don't know but looks like they changed the site plan for PS (see the villagesofirvine site and the PS village map).  It used to have bigger lots.  I think they were going to be los colinas lots on the western edge of the northern enclave.  Now it looks like those lots are for smaller alley/motorcourt type homes.
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You are right.  Not only were those lots changed, but so were the ones where Casero are going to be.  Here is the original masterplan courtesy of Panda's old post regarding Portola Springs:

2dhe3x1.jpg
 
ps99472 said:
Didn't someone say new homes with a driveway will be rare in Irvine?
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Yeah... it's the new feature in the 2012 Collection... Garage-Less SFRs (so you don't need a driveway).  But you can upgrade to have a garage added in the Design Center for an extra $45k... the driveway will cost more.
 
I wonder if they are tying to comply with the stat regulations to build more housing in Irvine.  In my opinion it is simply the ghettoization of the suburbs.  So much for the american dream of the nice SFR and picket fence
 
How about modernization of the suburbs?  Just a theory and you may not see it or agree, but think with me for a second.  As technology keeps on changing people's lives, the things that we are doing are completely different.  We are on the internet blogging, social networking, and all kinds of other distractions from technology.  People are just busier these days with different things.  Perhaps nice SFR and picket fence just doesn't work anymore.  I mean, mowing the lawn instead of posting on TI or painting the fences instead of farming on Facebook (people can argue that's yard work too!!).  I am not saying it's a good thing, just throwing out a thought.  Unless people stay true to the tradition (like the people that I read about on OCReader about gardening, things to do around the home and still make time to work, attend to family etc), your preference of life is changed and next thing you see, no SFR and no picket fences. 
 
Nice post PStar.

Related to your question, it makes me wonder how high the demand is for this denser housing? I'm sure the price point is a driver and I can understand the need for housing for either affluent singles (Irvine *is* #4 on the Rich and Single City list  8) ), couples or maybe a tripod family... but where do they move up to?

I think TIC is catering to both greed and demand... homes of this size are more affordable for people who are looking for their first home (although $600k for a "starter" is so weird) but at the same time, what about the middle section who is looking to move up or for bigger families? Homes like Sonoma and Montecito with only 3 and 4 bedrooms barely cut it and most middle income (relative to Irvine) are cut out of the $900k+ segment.

If you notice all the new projects, most of them are in the smaller footprint segment, with the exception of the upcoming Carmel II (which may be renamed), what else do you have in a more traditional SFR neighborhood? It's like they are just waiting for the economy to recover then they will start building Stonegate, Portola North, Laguna Crossings and Orchard Hills.

To answer your question, it's arguable that Irvine probably peaked right before Woodbury... but communities and cities change. There is shift in dynamic and just like Walnut, Orangetree, El Camino and the older communities got outdated, so will the newer ones like Westpark II, West Irvine and Oak Creek to be replaced by this more dense living like Woodbury/WBE/SGE/PSS. But isn't that how it's supposed to work... because that will keep those areas in demand because once you are done with your 20-30year old life in the denser areas of Irvine, you either move to other cities or to the more "spacious" 'hoods in Irvine like Woodbridge. Heh.

I think the peak is still a ways to go, there is so much more land to build on in Irvine and I think it will almost become its own little Orange County where certain areas are more or less desired than others. Instead of theories of IPD cover-ups, there will be rumors abound regarding Woodbury HOA cover-ups vs Northwood ones.
 
Great question Pat Star.  I was posting at the same time you post the question.  What I was saying kind of align with what you mentioned about this new "Urban" planning.

I thought of the cities in Northern Cal.  There is a good distinction between the city and suburbs.  I don't know what Irvine is planning but it sure feels like they are going to a different direction.  This is where BK is golden on the profile and dynamic of the city and suburbs.    Think of what we do right now and try to picture what may happen in the future with technology.

Sure, Irivne is still saying it's a great place for a family but maybe they are delivering the message to a different crowd.
 
PStar said:
That said, IMO we can do better than some of this in a modern suburb.  As you know, I live in a newish SFR.  It's not big (1,700 sq ft), and its not expensive (a model match around the corner just closed for $659k last week).  It does not have a big yard --- but it is a yard.  There is grass in the front and back.  There is a real sidewalk.  There is a real driveway.  It's a *house*.  And it's relatively affordable to the masses.  And it was built just 8 years ago.  What has changed in the last 8 years that IC can't offer something like that?  Why do you have to pay nearly $1M just for a traditional suburban layout?
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Preach on bruthah PStar!!!

And while we're on the request line... can I have a bit more than what PStar wants? Give me a 3rd car garage and a 2nd dining area. Thanks.
 
Totally agree with you.  To answer your question as to what changed?  IHO said it, Greed and Demand and both are going higher.  Though I wouldn't say it's greed rather than what every other corporation in the America tries to do, maximize profit.  Unlike Apple, they actually think about their customer.  Where as TIC, they don't even have a competitor to worry about just yet so they will squeeze as much as they can.  *Disclaimer, I have been squeezed!!

I can't believe these products that they are building came from the customer's survey!!  Unless they send the survey to FCB who doesn't read english (Joke). 
 
IrvinePilot said:
Patrick Star said:
nytransplant said:
I wonder if they are tying to comply with the stat regulations to build more housing in Irvine.  In my opinion it is simply the ghettoization of the suburbs.  So much for the american dream of the nice SFR and picket fence
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This is an excellent point.  IHO likes to joke about it, but these new products being offered by TIC are really just sad and pathetic.  I mean really --- is anyone planning on buying these as a "family home" that you hope to live out your years in?  Where you hope you grandchildren will visit?  Heck no.  These are transient properties --- half a step above an IAC apartment.  And what happens once these properties start turning over?  Once the newness wears off in 5-10 years?  Who is going to want to buy an aging apartment with a $400 HOA (or maybe more in the future) and $4000 in mello roos? 

Serious question here:  Do you guys think Irvine is at its peak, or has yet to peak as a community?  Or was the peak of this community sometime in the past?  Does the new *urban* planning Irvine has embraced translate to this community getting better or worse during the term of the 30 year mortgage most of us would need to sign up for?

As a relatively long term resident, I know what I believe the answer is --- but curious as to what others think?
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High density in Irvine is not new.  In fact, it began in the late 90s with products like Wisteria in West Irvine (designed by our very own BK) and Cobblestone in Oak Creek.  I would say that people still ?want? those high density driveway less products despite their age.
The notion of buying a ?family home? to grow old and die in is a quaint notion but I don?t think represents modern living.  Would I like my kids to have the same childhood I had with shooting my .22 in my parents  ? acre backyard and throwing lawn darts straight up into the air and running out of the way before the dart landed?  Of course I would but I also recognize the world has changed since that time.  Kids today don?t expect to have a ? backyard so not having one shouldn?t cause them any grief.
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One could also argue that great neighborhoods will stand the test of time if built with care. Unfortunately most new home construction is built for profit maximization and not architectural aesthetics or ideal urban planning. The way TIC is rubber stamping new neighborhoods with little regard to aesthetics and density, it is inevitable  that these villages will be considered unattractive within 30 years. I can't imagine in 50 years we will be saying "WOW, look at these beautiful homes!" when touring WB, WBE, and SonegateEast; unlike touring Pasadena, Floral Park, etc...

These newer villages will attract buyers with young families, who eventually will tire of the
 
There are many old neighborhoods in this country.  The difference in Irvine is the HOA.  This prevents most major renovation work on homes in the future.  Also with the lack of land there is no way of "buying the smallest house on the biggest lot" and then upgrading in the future.  These 1500 sqft homes will never be much more than a 1500 sqft home.  Because of that in 30 years Irvine will look old and crowded.

I agree with pactrickstar.  It's not that hard to build small single family homes.  I think they should even build a series of non-HOA single family homes and see what happens.  I bet these homes would sell themselves.

Untimately we need to remember that if the public does not demand (with their wallet) nice SFR we will proably regret it in the future.  AND owing this up to Modernization is crazy.  If you want city living go to LA.  This is the OC.
 
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