Best and Worst Builders in OC

[paydawg]

I know this will get a variety of responses, but of all the various home builders in and near Irvine, who are considered top tier and bottom tier -- BY VALUE.  I'm primarily asking about the workmanship of the homes/materials, layout, customer service, standard features and options list.  I'm not asking about location, because there are plenty of threads discussing how HC is great and PSIII sucks. 

For instance, time and time again, I hear how the old Standard Pacific was a great builder and how KB was an awful builder.  What do you all think?

Here are the builders I'm aware of:

Brookfield
CalAtlantic
California Pacific
Irvine Pacific
K Hovnanian
KB
Lennar
Pulte
Shea
Taylor Morrison
The New Home Company
Toll Brothers
Tri Pointe
William Lyon

 

[WTTCHMN]

I know this will get a variety of responses, but of all the various home builders in and near Irvine, who are considered top tier and bottom tier -- BY VALUE.  I'm primarily asking about the workmanship of the homes/materials, layout, customer service, standard features and options list.  I'm not asking about location, because there are plenty of threads discussing how HC is great and PSIII sucks. 

For instance, time and time again, I hear how the old Standard Pacific was a great builder and how KB was an awful builder.  What do you all think?

Here are the builders I'm aware of:

Brookfield
CalAtlantic
California Pacific
Irvine Pacific
K Hovnanian
KB
Lennar
Pulte
Shea
Taylor Morrison
The New Home Company
Toll Brothers
Tri Pointe
William Lyon

I think your question is not very clear.

You ask about value, which to me, means quality/price.

But then you ask about workmanship, layout, customer service etc. which are all disparate categories.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Construction wise...they're all similar.  They all subcontract out their work.  My house had terrible cabinet subcontractor but great garage door subcontractor.

The difference is really design/layout.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Construction wise...they're all similar.  They all subcontract out their work.  My house had terrible cabinet subcontractor but great garage door subcontractor.

The difference is really design/layout.

Even design/layout can vary for any individual builder.  It depends on the contracted architect...  right, IHS?

 

[paydawg]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB. 

 

[eyephone]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

 

[gasman]

"Better" is so subjective...things that matter to some may not matter to others.

My 2 cents...KB uses the same subs and trades as other builders, but where they fall down is with finishing material selections, and with their customer service/warranty.  All warranties across builders are virtually identical (usually the minimum required), but HOW they service their warranties is a big difference.  KB has suffered immensely from buyer feedback, and has never fully recovered.

I only have experience with a few of the builders listed, so that's where I'll focus.  William Lyon was a decent builder...better than average, but not the best IMHO.  Their warranty serviceability was fine, but they tend to skimp out on infrastructure items, such as electrical (insufficient breakers/amps/circuits), insulation, etc.  I've had to do a lot on my own to make sure the house was able to function with all of the electrical components in it.  This may not matter to some people, but for us, it mattered a great deal.

Toll Brothers has a great reputation largely due to the scale and exclusivity of their projects.  A relative of mine worked for S&S homes, which was bought by Toll Brothers, and both had really great estate floor plans.

Shea is probably on the upper end of the list...most contractors and trades that I've spoken with have a highly favorable opinion of Shea, which holds weight to me.  Their superintendents are solid, and warranties are quite painless.  They've taken care of things for me that technically shouldn't have been approved (eg renovations after COE).  Infrastructure is solid (elec, plumbing, insulation, etc.).

My experience with Taylor Morrison has been very similar to that of Shea.

Lennar is probably one of the shadiest builders out there.  Their warranty policies are enforced strongly, and there are endless cases where homeowners had to jump through hoops just to get things fixed.  They also own a lot of sub-companies, including solar, trades, etc., where you are forced into contracts with them as part of their "ei - everything included" approach.  There's very little commitment to homeowners at the corporate level, so don't expect to get any personal or special treatment.

Every builder is looking out for their bottom line, and most of them are publicly traded.  Ultimately, it's a business, but there are noticeable differences between builders on how they view and service their customers.

 

[lnc]

Best builder would be the one that provide the best customer service for any after COE repair needs.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

It's all marketing.  If you claim enough times that you're America's luxury homebuilder, people will start to believe it.

 

[WTTCHMN]

.

 

[paydawg]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

 

[eyephone]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

Why don't you just say the two builders name? Then go in a circle and ask about all of them?

I think it comes down to the floor plan. That's what I look at.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

Possibly in the market?

That's like saying you're possibly pregnant and trying to choose between a boy and a girl.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

I just don't think the variance on the builders are all that great.  There are no "great builders"...just varying degrees of average. 

All of the builders are trying to get past the 4/10 year lines so most of them will play nice during that time.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

I just don't think the variance on the builders are all that great.  There are no "great builders"...just varying degrees of average. 

All of the builders are trying to get past the 4/10 year lines so most of them will play nice during that time.

Agreed.  The above-average builders are just more aggressive about getting you to fill out the survey, dangling free gift cards to entice you to fill the damn thing out.

 

[akkord]

Didn't see Richmond American on the list, only builder I have had experience with and they have gone above and beyond just warranty. 

TLDR: RAH is good to go in my book

I mentioned in another thread that I worked with Johnny Electric and had a bad experience thus far.  To expand on that, I had them over to get some pre-wiring done for under cabinet lighting when RAH pulled the backsplash out in the kitchen.  The guy mangled up the dry wall putting in the wire and said, oh, no need to fix it, they'll just put the backsplash over it.  I told our customer rep, I think there's going to need some drywall repair when the tile guy comes to put it back in.  Our customer rep came by the next day to take a quick look at the kitchen.  Said "Damn they really f'd up that wall".  Let me get our drywaller in before the tile guy comes.

So how many builders would do this for you.  I wasn't satisfied with our backsplash before COE, they said we can close and after COE if we didn't like it, they'd replace it.  We decided we wanted to replace it, and at the same time get undercabinet lighting in.  Builder said sure, we'll schedule the demo of backsplash and re-install after you get whatever you need done.  Note that I hired Johnny Electric and it was their guy that f'd up the drywall, but the builder brought out their own drywaller to fix it for me prior to the tile re-install at no cost to me.  I'm thinking most builders would say your guy messed it up, you're responsible for the drywall or pay us to fix the drywall.

The turnaround time was amazing too.

Thursday - builder sent tiler to demo backsplash
Saturday - Johnny Electric comes by and f's up the dry wall
Sunday - text builder rep - drywall needs repair and we liked the guy who did the demo, can we have him back to do the re-install (same day - I'll call the tile company and talk to the manager - 30 min later - you got the same guy, Wed work? - yup, scheduled)
Monday - rep comes by, can I take a quick look at the drywall - it def needs repair - says he'll talk to his drywaller
Tuesday - builder gets drywaller to come in (he worked on the drywall for 5-6 hrs so it could be ready for Wed tile re-install)

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Didn't see Richmond American on the list, only builder I have had experience with and they have gone above and beyond just warranty. 

TLDR: RAH is good to go in my book

I mentioned in another thread that I worked with Johnny Electric and had a bad experience thus far.  To expand on that, I had them over to get some pre-wiring done for under cabinet lighting when RAH pulled the backsplash out in the kitchen.  The guy mangled up the dry wall putting in the wire and said, oh, no need to fix it, they'll just put the backsplash over it.  I told our customer rep, I think there's going to need some drywall repair when the tile guy comes to put it back in.  Our customer rep came by the next day to take a quick look at the kitchen.  Said "Damn they really f'd up that wall".  Let me get our drywaller in before the tile guy comes.

So how many builders would do this for you.  I wasn't satisfied with our backsplash before COE, they said we can close and after COE if we didn't like it, they'd replace it.  We decided we wanted to replace it, and at the same time get undercabinet lighting in.  Builder said sure, we'll schedule the demo of backsplash and re-install after you get whatever you need done.  Note that I hired Johnny Electric and it was their guy that f'd up the drywall, but the builder brought out their own drywaller to fix it for me prior to the tile re-install at no cost to me.  I'm thinking most builders would say your guy messed it up, you're responsible for the drywall or pay us to fix the drywall.

The turnaround time was amazing too.

Thursday - builder sent tiler to demo backsplash
Saturday - Johnny Electric comes by and f's up the dry wall
Sunday - text builder rep - drywall needs repair and we liked the guy who did the demo, can we have him back to do the re-install (same day - I'll call the tile company and talk to the manager - 30 min later - you got the same guy, Wed work? - yup, scheduled)
Monday - rep comes by, can I take a quick look at the drywall - it def needs repair - says he'll talk to his drywaller
Tuesday - builder gets drywaller to come in (he worked on the drywall for 5-6 hrs so it could be ready for Wed tile re-install)

We had a similar issue with our backsplash and they basically upgraded our backsplash because they couldn't get the material we ordered in time.  We had Irvine Pac as our builder.

Builders have a lot of say over the subcontractors so the subs are the one eating the repair costs.  Our cabinet subcontractor was terrible and was basically fired half way through the build.

 

[paydawg]

Fair point.  Let's take "value" out of the question then. 

Since everything is subcontracted out, how does one distinguish between one builder and another?  I've got to believe that there are reasons why Toll Brothers is better than KB.

Why are you asking?

I'm possibly in the market for a new home and am deciding between two builders, located in the same area.  Both floorplans work, so I'm struggling to choose one over the other.  I figured I'd ask TI without make the question specifically to my needs.

Possibly in the market?

That's like saying you're possibly pregnant and trying to choose between a boy and a girl.

Yes...possibly.  Long story short, I've come across a big chunk of money that will be given to me if I buy a bigger house to temporarily house family members from time to time (not permanently).  I'm iffy on going thru with the idea because (1) I like my current smaller house and (2) I like my freedom.  IF I go thru with it, then atleast I'll have some good amount money given to me. 

Going thru with it means choosing between a couple different neighborhoods, SG vs BP, and choosing between KB vs Tri Pointe (SG) or Pulte vs Lennar (BP).  I haven't had a chance to look at the biggest EW offerings yet, so that's a possibility too.  Problem is that I really like my house and the particular lot it sits on.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Long story short, I've come across a big chunk of money that will be given to me if I buy a bigger house to temporarily house family members from time to time (not permanently).

These are famous last words in line of "I will pay you back..."

You can also just keep the house you have now and rent it out.

 

[akkord]

We had a similar issue with our backsplash and they basically upgraded our backsplash because they couldn't get the material we ordered in time.  We had Irvine Pac as our builder.

Builders have a lot of say over the subcontractors so the subs are the one eating the repair costs.  Our cabinet subcontractor was terrible and was basically fired half way through the build.

Same thing happened with our master bathroom flooring, couldn't source what we originally picked out, the next option we picked was higher, but we weren't charged extra for it.