Avocado groves at Orchard Hills

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Irvinehomehunter

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I have been looking for a new home to buy and have narrowed my search down to Orchard Hills and one other development in Irvine.  My question is about the avocado groves at OH. I heard from a builder that the avocado groves are not slated to always be there. In fact, he told me that they could be replaced with native grasses and the cost to maintain would be the HOA and all our HOA dues would be increased accordingly. I read the DRE public report and in fact there are several references to the fact the avocado groves will end up being property of the HOA and the HOA dues increased although the increases mentioned were not significant ($22/lot but that may have been specific to just one development).  However, there is another paragraph that specifically addresses Cessation of Orchard Operations which outlines that only the perimeter trees will remain and the interior trees will be replaced with native grasses and the costs to maintain all of this will be borne by the HOA (again, another dues increase).  I find it hard to believe that given the way the language is laid out here, that there isn't some thought to eliminate the avocado groves.  In thinking about it, it doesn't surprise me given the statewide water issues and the probable age of the trees etc. But I can't get a sense of what cost increases this might have on the homeowners once this is done.

Has anyone else heard this and what is your opinion of impacting the value of the area if this is done?

Here is the section from the document (page 26 of 44):

Cessation of Orchard Operations:  The Orchard Declaration provides that when the Declarant under the Orchard Declaration elects to discontinue its orchard operations, it will notify the Master Association of Declarant's plan to terminate the Orchard Declaration.  Upon termination, the orchard operator will leave the avocado trees within the fuel modification zones around the perimeter of the orchards in place and remove the interior trees and replace them with native grasses, as well as convert the irrigation system for the revised uses and perform erosion control measures.  After completion of the steps described in the preceding sentence, the Master Association will be solely responsible for the cost to maintain the former orchard areas and associated fuel modification zones within Village II.  Such maintenance costs will cause increases in assessments payable by residents who are member of the Master Association.

My second question is that in the same report it outlined that the subsidy of the HOA dues that I thought was done by the Master Builder is only for one year.  I thought this was normally done through buildout. 

I'm just trying to get an understanding of what my outflows will be on OH to compare it accurately to other developments.
 

Attachments

Ya I was under contact for Trevi but backed out due to potential $20 HOA increase in 3 years.

That would really put a damper on my $9k/mo mortgage payment.
 
aquabliss said:
Ya I was under contact for Trevi but backed out due to potential $20 HOA increase in 3 years.

That would really put a damper on my $9k/mo mortgage payment.
Click to expand...

That $20 can buy 8 Vietnamese ice coffees. :)
 
Irvinehomehunter,

I don't blame you for looking into this issue. If you are going to put down $1-3M, you better know what you are getting into. That is a potential risk/cost to your Master HOA. If it is truly $20/lot then no big deal. If HOA costs go from ~$300/month to $1000/month, that might hurt. If you are living in OH you probably can afford the price jump but it would be nice to know ahead of time.
 
Can someone tell me what in the world "native grass" would look like?  If TIC takes the avocado orchards away Orchard Hills will look horrible.  The whole selling point of Orchard Hills are the ORCHARDS!!  Isn't this why TIC is getting a nice premium on the homes?  I'm I missing something here?
 
TIC doesn't believe in that anymore.  They tell you premium is a one color house and you have to like it. 
 
iacrenter said:
Irvinehomehunter,

I don't blame you for looking into this issue. If you are going to put down $1-3M, you better know what you are getting into. That is a potential risk/cost to your Master HOA. If it is truly $20/lot then no big deal. If HOA costs go from ~$300/month to $1000/month, that might hurt. If you are living in OH you probably can afford the price jump but it would be nice to know ahead of time.
Click to expand...

I didn't post this over a $20/month increase. The person I talked with who had knowledge of this quoted me an increase of $500-750/month.  I think that is something to think about. And to those of you who made the snarky comments about my even asking about this, I am a cash buyer - no I'm not a foreigner either. I didn't accumulate my wealth by throwing it down a rat hole. I research my returns whether or not I live I the house. OH is/maybe was appealing because I enjoy outdoor activity and the ability to hike in the open space was something I liked. But I don't want to pay $120,000 view premium to look at smog over Irvine rooftops (it's not the OCEAN people), so I am considering the Hidden Canyon project and since I know the people there I won't have to deal with the whole prequal list ridiculousness. Thanks to those who actually read the post and responded with something thoughtful.
 
Irvine has a planning commission made up of city council appointed members.  Meetings are open.  I assume not many people go but when someone actually goes with thoughtful, respectful questions, they seem to take it seriously and they do make changes based on community input.

Irvine also has a planning department.  Theses are city employees who just do what they are told.  They seem to me to love the Irvine Company.  Many think that the city employees would someday like to work for TIC so they seem to recommend what TIC likes.  Planning commission and then city council can and do change things.  They can't change issues that they don't know are issues unless someone brings it to their attention.

Research by asking city for information.  See if the city can take on the orchard.  See what the city has planned.  Think about how to change it.  Get other people on board too.  Just my two cents.
 
Hmmm think about it. . . 
TIC give up money they are making on their avocado orchards.
For what?
Who knows, but say it out loud-- does it make sense?

Also, maintenance costs for "native grass" are probably not going to move the needle on HOA dues.
Unless "native grass" means something else-- in which case, the HOA will be sending rebates!
 
In an agrarian society land barons lived among orchards. If an orchard was on elevated topography the plantation master financial and society status ranked at the top of the caste system. The laborers and peasants in this case are the white and yellow slaves live among each other in very high density living on the flat land. This level of status historically could not be bought in a medieval society so just be grateful that money could elevate your superiority among your slaves. This is priceless so don't bicker the $20 or $800 fee increase. All aristocrats pay to maintain their status.

Orchard Hills is quoted and marketed as the Bel Air of Irvine and just that alone is worth $millions. When you drive down that hill you can see the distant South Central of Irvine El Camino and the 2 low performing ghetto schools of Woodbridge and Irvine HS. Historically across America Old Chinatown evolved adjacent to the ghettos. Sam Woo was the earliest Tong in this evolution.

Now that I described to you this vivid story and each time you drive down that hill wouldn't this be a much richer experience? Don't nickel and dime on the HOA fees when you are living among the future Kim Jong Uns of China.

Orchard Hills is for the buyers who could differentiate themselves from the flatland slaves and commoners. It is limited and is the last opportunity to live above it all.
 
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