Automatic Adjusted Property Tax Observations

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woodbury_owner_IHB

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According to OC Prop Tax board, my house value stayed the same this year (as opposed to standard 2% increase). I was curious about the same models around me and I noticed everyone had their value REDUCED!! Here's the kicker.. they were all reduced to a few k under my house value. I paid the least amount for my model and now my value is a few k higher than the other houses. Here are the numbers for the 4 homes that are my model (sold within 1 month of each other)



House 1 - 595k

House 2 - 580k

House 3 - 595k

Mine - 540k



House 1, 2, and 3 now have an assessed value of 545k and mine is 547k (due to the increases from prop 13). This type of calculation seems really off to me and I have already submitted my appeal paperwork. It makes no sense that I paid ~50k less than everyone else (due to less upgrades) and now my value is 2k higher than theirs! Has anyone seem similar examples?
 
yes, i too live in woodbury. my assessment this yr was 7% lower than last yr. i have neighbors who saw the full 2.5% increase. how the hell do they figure that?



i appealed for a 20% reduction, haggled, and eventually settled for around a 15% reduction.



i got a call from an assessment officer and we haggled back and forth the last month and half. i don't know if anyone else that has been through the process has ever heard this, but my assessment officer told me they don't go buy price/sq ft -- they look at the basic specs (# of bd/ba) and sales price only. this really screws many people with newer floorplans where, compared to more traditional designs, the number of bd/ba are the same but total sq footage is smaller. in woodbury for example, you have all those detached condos (cortile or stonetree) or the wafer-thin SFRs (cachette) where they manage to squeeze in 3~4 bds/ba into as little as 1400 sq ft. the so-called evidence the assessors office contradicting my appeal were sales of traditional SFRs with much larger floorplans and lots which obviously have higher sales prices. i said those homes are 20% larger and despite that, the price/sq ft numbers based on those SFRs are LOWER than the price/sq ft i was basing my own appeal on. his response was, "well we don't look at price/sq ft. you never use price/sq ft." i said, wtf are you talking about -- the entire RE business goes by price/sq ft!



every week or so he would call back and say he relooked at my case, checked some new data, and offers a lower number. this just set off the BS alert in my head. what new data? the comp data allowed is within 3 months of jan 1. or is he saying he was looking at the wrong data the first time? i would say, no i still want to take it to the formal appeal and fax back some more comps to re-emphasize my case.



we went through this a few times until finally it got to a number i was ok with. i finally settled because the process was getting annoying and the incremental cost of another 5% reduction wasn't worth my time now and dragging out the court appearance date. now i can just say i agree with the assessor recommendation and be in and out quickly. and i figure i can just appeal again in the spring because the comps should be even lower.



i'm really not one to buy into govt conspiracy theories but i really have to say the oc assessors office is either intentionally trying to prop up tax revenues, making up whatever up to support their higher assessments. or they are completely incompetent. most likely a mix of both.
 
[quote author="woodbury_owner" date=1224508452]According to OC Prop Tax board, my house value stayed the same this year (as opposed to standard 2% increase). I was curious about the same models around me and I noticed everyone had their value REDUCED!! Here's the kicker.. they were all reduced to a few k under my house value. I paid the least amount for my model and now my value is a few k higher than the other houses. Here are the numbers for the 4 homes that are my model (sold within 1 month of each other)



House 1 - 595k

House 2 - 580k

House 3 - 595k

Mine - 540k



House 1, 2, and 3 now have an assessed value of 545k and mine is 547k (due to the increases from prop 13). This type of calculation seems really off to me and I have already submitted my appeal paperwork. It makes no sense that I paid ~50k less than everyone else (due to less upgrades) and now my value is 2k higher than theirs! Has anyone seem similar examples?</blockquote>


Next year, pay attention to the notice you get in the mail and appeal the value before the deadline. You're screwed for this year.



Acpme, it would be nice to see someone else rather than Webster Guillory become Assessor in the next election. He's a pompous ass and too focused on the bottom line. While I understand that's his job, the Assessor's Office really should have reduced everyone's property tax, instead of only a percentage of owners. It's not that the employees are inept, it's the management and leader. The employees have no choice but to do their bidding, especially in a time when Guillory is looking for areas to cut back in and their jobs may be affected. Believe me, the employees feel the pressure and aren't happy, either.



<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/orange/la-me-parsons17-2008oct17,0,2493968.column">Check this link out</a>. My friend at the Assessor's Office says it really didn't happen, but she and other workers are dealing with very stressed out homeowners all the time now. And they are stressed out, too, since the economy is affecting them just as it is with their customers.
 
well, i actually already submitted the appeal and have been given a hearing date of jan '09. i'm just a bit pissed that i have to go through all this hassle and my neighbors had their value automatically adjusted downward.
 
[quote author="woodbury_owner" date=1224545555]well, i actually already submitted the appeal and have been given a hearing date of jan '09. i'm just a bit pissed that i have to go through all this hassle and my neighbors had their value automatically adjusted downward.</blockquote>


I'd be pissed, too. The Assessor's Office should have done across-the-board reductions. Good luck on your hearing.
 
how does that work if the hearing date is in jan and the next tax pymt is due in dec. do you pay the full amt now and then the county sends you a refund later?
 
that's exactly right. they also mentioned that they would pay some interest on difference.



[quote author="acpme" date=1224546386]how does that work if the hearing date is in jan and the next tax pymt is due in dec. do you pay the full amt now and then the county sends you a refund later?</blockquote>
 
It sounds like you have more LAND than your neighbors. No conspiracy to find.







[quote author="acpme" date=1224540634]yes, i too live in woodbury. my assessment this yr was 7% lower than last yr. i have neighbors who saw the full 2.5% increase. how the hell do they figure that?



i appealed for a 20% reduction, haggled, and eventually settled for around a 15% reduction.



i got a call from an assessment officer and we haggled back and forth the last month and half. i don't know if anyone else that has been through the process has ever heard this, but my assessment officer told me they don't go buy price/sq ft -- they look at the basic specs (# of bd/ba) and sales price only. this really screws many people with newer floorplans where, compared to more traditional designs, the number of bd/ba are the same but total sq footage is smaller. in woodbury for example, you have all those detached condos (cortile or stonetree) or the wafer-thin SFRs (cachette) where they manage to squeeze in 3~4 bds/ba into as little as 1400 sq ft. the so-called evidence the assessors office contradicting my appeal were sales of traditional SFRs with much larger floorplans and lots which obviously have higher sales prices. i said those homes are 20% larger and despite that, the price/sq ft numbers based on those SFRs are LOWER than the price/sq ft i was basing my own appeal on. his response was, "well we don't look at price/sq ft. you never use price/sq ft." i said, wtf are you talking about -- the entire RE business goes by price/sq ft!



every week or so he would call back and say he relooked at my case, checked some new data, and offers a lower number. this just set off the BS alert in my head. what new data? the comp data allowed is within 3 months of jan 1. or is he saying he was looking at the wrong data the first time? i would say, no i still want to take it to the formal appeal and fax back some more comps to re-emphasize my case.



we went through this a few times until finally it got to a number i was ok with. i finally settled because the process was getting annoying and the incremental cost of another 5% reduction wasn't worth my time now and dragging out the court appearance date. now i can just say i agree with the assessor recommendation and be in and out quickly. and i figure i can just appeal again in the spring because the comps should be even lower.



i'm really not one to buy into govt conspiracy theories but i really have to say the oc assessors office is either intentionally trying to prop up tax revenues, making up whatever up to support their higher assessments. or they are completely incompetent. most likely a mix of both.</blockquote>
 
as i understand it, reductions DON'T reduce your prop 13 basis. maybe someone forced to sell after riding it down from '89 to '93 can tell us.
 
The reductions are temporary and you must appeal it again every year while values are decreasing. When values increase, you may see greater than 2% increase due to Prop. 13 basis.
 
[quote author="PadreBrian" date=1224547930]It sounds like you have more LAND than your neighbors. No conspiracy to find.

</blockquote>


actually quite the opposite. here's a good example: i was talking with a friend who lives in a 3bd/2ba 1500 sq ft house in TR. his family has one of the smallest houses and lots in the neighborhood down at the bottom of the hill. like me, he based his comps on price/sq of other 3 bedroom homes in the neighborhood - most of which tend to be much larger. the price/sq based on those sales was something like $500/sq ft so he appealed using $750k. he said someone from the assessors office called him later asking how he came up with $750k when all the other homes on his comp list were closer to $900k~1M. my friend explained those are all 1800-2000 sq ft homes, many with much larger lots. but if comparing price per-- and then he got cut off.



"nono, we never look at price per sq ft," responded the assessor. "it's the sales price that matters."



so then he put together a new set of comps using townhomes and detached condos from nearby TRidge that are more comparable in total size, but the assessor called back saying, "these comps aren't appropriate. don't you live in a SFR?"



i told my friend i just had the EXACT same conversation with assesor's office, although in my case i'm trying to explain a detached condo to an assessor who's comparing my home to SFRs. there's no method to their madness. i don't suspect its some conspiracy, that was hyperbole. but like westparkrenter pointed out, i'm not surprised that they're swamped (appeals increased 72% this yr) and under pressure, but they don't seem to have a good understanding of what they're doing.



i hope it's just that they're using a broad brush in order to whip through as many appeals as possible... not so they can prop up tax revenue.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1224540634]i'm really not one to buy into govt conspiracy theories but i really have to say the oc assessors office is either intentionally trying to prop up tax revenues, making up whatever up to support their higher assessments. or they are completely incompetent. most likely a mix of both.</blockquote>


It's most likely a mix of both. Not only are they taking in less money from deadbeats not paying their taxes and people getting reassessments, but <a href="http://www.ttc.ocgov.com/tcweb/Reports/September 2008/PII.pdf">Chrissy Street is whacked hard on the investment side of it all</a>. And... to think he still has yet to mark to market the Whistle Jacket SIV, and gawd knows how worthless the Tango and Five Finance funds really are. Incompetence is a requirement to work there, as can be seen from the top down.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1224550456]i hope it's just that they're using a broad brush in order to whip through as many appeals as possible... not so they can prop up tax revenue.</blockquote>


They're dancing as fast as they can. They already realize that revenue will be down in a serious way, especially thanks to that idiot Chriss Street (and all the foreclosures). Many of the workers there <strong>do</strong> want to help homeowners, but they are restricted as to how well they can do that and how much they can do.



It's not incompetence there throughout the place, as Graphrix suggested, although there's some of that, as there is in any workplace. It's just that they must follow the rules and there's little flexibility in that. They don't like it either when they have panicked homeowners calling up and freaking out about their tax bills, and that's more the norm than not these days. Hard to believe, but not all workers in the Assessor's Office want to ream us on our property tax bills.
 
[quote author="Anon." date=1224553747]Hard to believe, but not all workers in the Assessor's Office want to ream us on our property tax bills.</blockquote>


No, but they are like workers in the private sector in that they are aware of the fact that maximizing revenue in a shrinking market doesn't hurt if you still want to have a job in the future.
 
[quote author="Hormiguero" date=1224570914]No, but they are like workers in the private sector in that they are aware of the fact that maximizing revenue in a shrinking market doesn't hurt if you still want to have a job in the future.</blockquote>


Of course they are aware of that but, like I said, they can only do so much. It's a computer program that they use, according to my friend. It's not like you sucking up to them would make a difference in your property tax.
 
Hopefully that program isn't anything like "zillow"! Their "Zestimates" have had an imaginary 15% rally in some parts of Orange County in the past month for no discernible reason.
 
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