A Trip to Woodbury

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Priced_Out_IT_Guy_IHB

Priced_Out_IT_Guy_IHB

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<p>So I went to check out the models in Woodbury today. Like many socal residents, I haven't been outside all week due to the fires and horrendous air quality. However, the smoke cleared up today and it seemed like a good opportunity to get outside and see what Irvine is up to.</p>

<p>Since I don't post too often, let me remind you that I'm what you call a poor, priced-out working IT professional in Irvine with 8 years of professional experience. I'm priced out because I have a sense of financial sensibility and refused to take suicide loans. I make about 100k per year, have no debt, perfect credit, and my '05 vehicle is paid off. I will have 20% of my down saved by the time I go to buy.</p>

<p>Back to the tour. I went to Woodbury today with my best friend, a licensed CPA, and his wife, an auditor. Both work 9-5 and 7-11 in tax seasons (yes there is more than 1 tax season). </p>

<p>We started out at Mille Fleurs (for those of you who didn't take French in high school, it translates to "Thousand flowers").</p>

<p><a href="http://www.irvineranch.com/villages/model.asp?mfa=19">http://www.irvineranch.com/villages/model.asp?mfa=19</a></p>

<p>Just look at all the flowers! Lovely. Your side neighbors are two feet away. You will have to keep your blinds closed in the master bedroom otherwise your rear neighbor, approximately 25 feet away, gets a front-row seat for all the late-night action. Your main view is said neighbor on the west and roofing tile on the east. The kids’ bedrooms, near the front of the street, have the best view (Santa Ana Mountains) and the most privacy. Gotta love track homes. </p>

<p>The floor plans overall are very well laid out. Spacious, numerous archways everywhere (how the hell do they drywall those archways?), lots of fancy tile and wood flooring, and to-die-for gas ranges combo-ed with worthless underpowered hoods.</p>

<p>Overall, these Standard Pacific homes appear well built. I didn't bother looking for tape marks or wavy ceilings, but I shouldn't have to on a million dollar house. FYI, the square footage and amenities the home came with was only slightly better than the SFRs I toured last weekend in South Mountain, Phoenix, which ranged from $320,000 to $400,000.</p>

<p>Since the prices were a little discouraging, we decided to tour a "more affordable" community. Keep in mind that my buddy and his wife's budget is 400K, mine is 350K.</p>

<p>Next up, Cortile, "From the low 500,000s".</p>

<p> <a href="http://www.irvineranch.com/villages/model.asp?mfa=39">http://www.irvineranch.com/villages/model.asp?mfa=39</a></p>

<p>What they should have said is "200sq ft more than a sardine can the low 500,000s", because that’s all you get for half a million bucks. The first model has no entry way as the front door enters into the kitchen. The kitchen is mostly for show since its so small it would be hard to do more than reheat last night's takeout. Yum. The upstairs master bedroom is smaller than my apartment’s master bedroom here in Woodbridge Meadows. The shower/tub is a plastic mold. What luxury! Total sq ft: 1200.</p>

<p>Let’s just skip model #2 because its also a steaming pile of overpriced manure and move right along to model #3, a 1450sq ft detached condo for only $580,000. This one actually has a usable kitchen. What a bonus. The loft is nice, so is the outside patio. I start to get excited and think to myself, "If only the price comes down another $250,000 this place <strong>might</strong> be worth it and I might be able to fool myself into believing I would actually be happy living here." That is, if the carpeting didn't look like it came from a smelly Vegas casino and the shower didn't have 99 cent tile glued to tacky red wallpaper.</p>

<p>Enough to say that my friend, his wife and I left Woodbury defeated. As if the price tags weren't enough, we got a free knee to the groin upon sifting through the literature at Cortile to discover that the HOA is $200 per month and the Mello-Roos is $400 per month. Ouch.</p>

<p>Seriously, who can afford to live in Irvine anymore?</p>

<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
 
POITG: thanks for the great "out and about" post. I completely agree with your assessment. I always laugh to myself when I hear that when housing prices go out of control, the builders can just compensate by building "smaller, more affordable" homes instead of "McMansions." Excuse me, but to me 2000-2500 square feet of detached, single family home with a little bit of side and back yard is NOT a McMansion. And 1200 feet of attached stucco is most certainly just an apartment. Since even these claustrophobic apartments are too expensive for the majority of us, what's next? 500 square foot studios marketed as "Great Family Starter Homes"? Give me a break.
 
Hey Trooper, would I sound like one of those crazy people who live in flood plains if I said no? I was never one of those teenagers who thought I was indestructable, and I just can't explain it except that it's definitely an emotional thing, as opposed to logical. I just stopped off at Orchard Hills Plaza after working out at Woodbury LA Fitness. I got a free Peet's coffee (courtesy of the Grand Opening celebration for the Plaza) and then did some grocery shopping at the Pavilion's. Well, just like the feeling I got when I started working at my new job early last year, I just immediately felt "at home" in that part of Irvine. I can't explain why. I just love it. And although I do know the fire burned right down to Portola Parkway, it just doesn't look utterly ruined as you drive from OH to Portola Springs the way I know it must look elsewhere. (I dread seeing the damage to Whiting Ranch, where I love to hike). By the way, TIC just changed the OH signs from "Luxury Homes Opening in 2008" to "Luxury Homes Opening in 2009." So it's going to be quite some time before I need to start seriously contemplating this.
 
<p>Yeah, you can't put a price tag on the "feeling" you have, it's priceless. Sounds like you will be keeping to your original plan, I was curious what you thought. I don't know what I would do...probably buy as well but make sure I had good insurance ! ;)</p>

<p>So sad to hear about your hiking trail.... :(</p>
 
<p>"Just look at all the flowers! Lovely. Your side neighbors are two feet away. You will have to keep your blinds closed in the master bedroom otherwise your rear neighbor, approximately 25 feet away, gets a front-row seat for all the late-night action. "</p>

<p>Most irvine homes are this way, unless you have a $1.5 million plus budget and move to the Hills of Quail Hill, turtle ridge or Shandy Canyon. </p>
 
<p>I think Santa Ana might be more suitable for the him.</p>
 
Is POITG asking too much? I don't think so. Now, Irvine is dense housing so we can't get real privacy unless you're in one of few select communities or move to the midwest, but having more space than apartment buildings is something that 400K should be able to buy.
 
I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect something for upwards of $500k, especially considering how much more expensive things are here than most other parts of the country and that it takes an above-average salary to be able to really afford a place like that . Privacy/boxed in-ness is one of the issues I face as well - I like newer (i.e. late '80s and beyond) construction because of its style and layout, but I don't like the fact that many are on smaller lots.





BTW, we went and checked out a few resale houses in South County last weekend. Common theme yet again: agents said not to worry about the asking price; just offer what you're willing to pay. Prices are still unrealistically high in many instances, IMO. By unrealistic I mean prices in many developments are below 2004, but some are still hoping for all of 2003 "gains," which can equate to as much as about 50%. Sometimes, asking/wishing prices are all over the board - above '05, even '06 in some instances. I don't necessarily always blame the owner, because more often than not they're upside down and don't have much room to negotiate.





POITGuy - Good luck from another 20-something with the hopes that housing in OC will one day be relatively reasonable (I'm not crazy enough to believe it could ever actually be totally reasonable).
 
Thanks for your post POIT Guy...





We visited Woodbury last week and looked at Villa Rosa. For 1 million dollars, I expected more...space, better layout, yard, maybe even a live in butler and nanny services for a year. Prior to that, we visited Portola Springs and didn't like anything there (not withstanding the fires).





My wife and I (in our 30s with one baby and another one on the way) decided to just rent a house in Garden Grove to be close to the in-laws/babysitter, and hang out there for a few years while we await the prices of Irvine to come down to more realistic levels. We don't look at Redfin and Ziprealty anymore, since the WTF listing prices have totally turned us off from buying in Irvine. We make in the top 2% incomes in the US, and we still cannot "afford" a decent SFR in Irvine. We don't want to spend more than 30% of our income on housing, since we have feel it's more important to max out our 401ks, contribute to our babies college fund, save additional money for our retirement and enjoy the rest of the time that we've been alloted in this life.





That's why we're renting a decent house at this time...if you rent a nice house, your pressures to buy a house lessens and you won't feel you need to buy one until the right one comes along. Sure, you may save a little less versus renting a cheap apartment, but you'll be able to hold out longer.





R_H
 
<p>R_H</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Do you remember whether Villa Rosa was offering any incentives, etc? You mentioned that you didn't like the yard layout - could you explain? I can look at the layout of the house on-line, but I cannot get feel for the lot size, driveway, etc.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>GrewUpInIrvine</p>
 
R-H,

What is top 2% income in the US? If it's over 500k a year, that's fine, if you think it's 250k+ a year, it's not really much as I would assume over 30% of S. Cal make over 6 figures.
 
<p>According to Wikipedia (and we all know that Wikipedia is the new Encyclopedia Britannica), top two percent is somewhere between $200K and $250K.</p>

<p>







<th colspan="3">$100,000 or more (15.73%)</th>

<th>2</th>

<th>3</th>





$100,000 to $149,999

11,194

9.89%

ca. 2

ca. 3





$150,000 to $199,999

3,595

3.17%





$200,000 to $249,999

1,325

1.17%





$250,000 and above

1,699

1.50%







</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States</a></p>

<p>Here is the census data if you do not believe in Wikipedia (how dare you)</p>

<p><a href="http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new05_000.htm">http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new05_000.htm</a></p>
 
<p>I understand how density is an issue in Irvine, so long as only small tracks of land are developed at a time. </p>

<p>My point is to illustrate the foolishness of density vs. cost, i.e. a $1,600,000.00 dollar house within flossing distance of your neighbors.</p>

<p>Absurd.</p>

<p> </p>
 
Priced_out_IT_guy, Irvine is not the only place that million dollar homes sit on 6000 sq ft lots. You probably won't believe this, but some of the nicest areas in Houston and Dallas are exactly the same - large homes (4000 sq ft plus homes ) on 5000 to 6000 sq ft lot with 10 ft clearnace between homes.



If you want more space, and more privacy without the $1.5 million plus budget, then you should look at somewhere else like Ladera Ranch, etc.
 
Just watch out for some of those "cheaper" Ladera Ranch condos...extremely packed in. Glad to see that when you get above $1.5 million, you finally get some breathing room
 
<p>I couldn't agree more. Home prices are still incredibly high. But hey, I noticed that Camden at VOC is selling for around 450K - that's close to 100K less than their starting price a year ago. For a three bedroom, that's not too bad at all.</p>

<p>I have a friend who bought a new condo in Woodbury a year ago for 600K. I see him often enough, but never dare to ask him what he thinks of real estate. I think 450K would be a reasonable price for his home, not 600K. We all know people who might have bought at the wrong time, right? Is it rude to discuss real estate with them?</p>

<p>I have another friend who's looking to buy a house for around 800K. I'm telling him to wait a year and just rent something nice in the meantime.</p>

<p>Overall, I think it sucks for all who don't own, or bought after 2002. However, for the majority of the homeowners, I think they don't even care how the market goes. Isn't the average mortgage in Orange County around $2300? I think that the average rent is around $1500-$2000 for a nice apartment. A nice home should have a mortgage (pre-2002) of around $2500-$3000. I think think the only ones having a hard time right now are those paying $4000-$5000/month for housing. I seriously don't understand how people can become comfortable with paying that much? I think the majority of homeowners would freak out if they had to pay more than $3000/month.</p>

<p>But I do have a question that I'm being dying to know the answer to... how much does the average Irvine resident pay for his/her share of the rent/mortgage?</p>

<p>In my case, I pay $1000/month for my share. From Craigslist, it seems a standard bed & own bath w/ utilities in a shared house is around $900. I have a friend who pays $1500/month for her rent & utilities. Another friend pays $1700/month. What about you guys? Is $2000/month common?</p>

<p>Second question is... how much are you willing to pay for your share of a mortgage?</p>
 
<em>"We all know people who might have bought at the wrong time, right? Is it rude to discuss real estate with them?"</em>





Good question. How do you ignore the elephant in the room when the elephant <em>is </em>the room?
 
I suppose a conversation that starts with "You paid too much for this XXXX, aren't you foolish" isn't necessarily good conversation regardless of the topic. As a rule of thumb, most people (myself included) don't like hearing from others about why they made a bad decision, especially decisions about money.





So if I had to field a guess, then:





Not rude: "The real estate market is tough, isn't it?"


Rude: "I can't believe you blew $600K on a house! What a bad decision!"





-OCR












 
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