174 Vintage

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vtech22a_IHB

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Hello graphrix,

<p>We actually looked at the property with an agent during it's short sale days. The agent told us the bank accepted an offer and it was in escrow. Now it's sold in an auction? What happened? </p>

<p>Thanks</p>
 
<p>graphrix,</p>

<p>174 vintage looks like another suprime DOA (buyer bought in 2006 overpriced, probably 100% financing - early default). Could you verify? Very said for the mortgage backed investors.</p>
 
<p>vtech22a - I don't know what happened to the short sale escrow. Maybe it didn't go through or maybe the agent was misinformed. I will have to confirm the sale at the auction once the county has it up. The source I use has been accurate everytime so far and if it is wrong it will be a first. </p>

<p>Did you check out the place? Do you know what the stats are like sqft and upgrades? What is funny about this place is how I found it. I found it in the Your Money section of the Sunday Register a few weeks back in the compare your home. I decided to check out the properties they were featuring because the dates of the last time they were sold seemed fishy. Sure enough they were and they were for sale for less than the real last sold price. Maybe the agent just didn't have the info even though I can easily find it.</p>

<p>NIR - Is DOA default on arrival? Yes it looks like another fraud cash back sale. Sorry I don't feel sorry for the investors when they demanded for the junk they bought. "Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful." Warren Buffett. </p>
 
<p>graprix,</p>

<p>DOA is a new name for default on arrival that I made up. Certain listing and selling agents participate in "DOA" transactions. I am getting quite good with my prediction of homes soon to be in foreclosure sales by tracking certain agents sale history.</p>

<p>Will these agents ever get reprimanted for their illegal actions by the bank? I suspect DRE does not have the manpower to police.</p>

<p>I read on OCR on-line majority of mortgage-backed investors are foreigners. I do feel bad for them because America is known for good ethic in business dealing. Don't you think America would lose their trust when their investments go belly-up due to frauds? I don't know the effect on the economy when money supply is short. Interest rate probaly will go up and will cause short term price decrease.</p>
 
<p>I like DOA. That is a good one!</p>

<p>I like you agree that something should be done about the agents, loan officers and appraisers and that I doubt much will be done to punish them. But what goes around comes around.</p>

<p>As for the foreign investors and what Matthew Padilla wrote was taken out of context slightly. I was there and what Scott Simon said was that foreign banks were buying the higher risk CDOs. CDOs are not MBS but are package of credit debt obligations that consist of MBS and other various debt obligations like commercial loans, car loans and credit card debt etc. You shouldn't feel sorry for them because they knew the risk going in. Scott actually said that they were completely aware that the risk was there when they are getting a return of over 300 basis points over the LIBOR. The problem was since there wasn't much a default problem for years they kept on buying more and more. It has nothing to do with America being honest it has to do with an investor being stupid and expecting risky high level returns but not realizing the risk. Sorry but if you want high returns you have high risk and it is the the same in the USA, UK or Malaysia. Have the buyers for this disappeared? No but now they realize the risk and are demanding higher returns. What that means is many lenders can't sell what they have and they will be forced to sell at some point or go BK. Maybe that is why rates have tanked the last few days. </p>

<p>By the way many hedge funds in the US bought these too. Do you feel sorry for them?</p>
 
Graphrix and Nir - I feel sorry for pensioners and future pensioners, because many pension funds have purchased CDOs and MBSs chasing return.



In the late 80's folks from Japan were buying up as much Los Angeles real estate as they could. Most of them sold in the mid 90's. Ouch!
 
awgee,





One of the myths bulls hold on to is the influx of rich Asians who will support our housing market. History has show over and over that foreign investors are generally late to the party and end up holding the bag. As you pointed out, they bought real estate in our last bubble, as nirvinerealtor pointed out, they have been buying our bad debt, and I saw a graph on Piggington's site where he showed how they bought US stock from 2000-2002. I also know of some large Korean investors buying up properties in LA to develop.
 
<p>graprix, IR, awgee,</p>

<p>Eventhough people knew high yield-high risk, it still does not feel right for the subprime bankers to carelessly lending money to thieves using other people money! </p>

<p>I remember Japanese investors were selling commercial real estate at 50% off. Why did they do that?. If they held on, their investment would be up several folds.</p>

<p>Stocks seems to do well now aday because people do not see big gains in real estate. Personally, I do not trust stock performance, only 10% chance of gain base on past statistic. Moreover, I did work for publicly traded companies and see how the executives only care about themselves. Seemed like more energy were put into spinning numbers rather than performance improvement. Very hard for me to trust my money in someone else's hand.</p>

<p>At least with real estate investment, I know there is gain eventually. And the odd is 50%! </p>

<p>like I said before, people have to park their money somewhere.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>graphics,</p>

<p>Yes we did go see the actual property. It was listed as a "Short Sale" with an agent. So we had another agent met with us at the property. It's built by Pulte, track name is Cachett. This is a plan 3, 4br with 3 bath, 1949 SQFT. Granite countertop in the kitchen and custom desk in the dinning room. I think it's laminated wood flooring in the first floor. Epoxy flooring with shelves in the garage. Upgraded carpet upstairs. Tile countertop in the bath rooms. The house overall is nicely upgraded. Of course, the house would still need some touch ups but it's not too bad. Like you mentioned, we also saw it on the OC register after we saw the property. </p>

<p>Not sure if it was fraud, but the agent told us, the property had a 700K+ first with 100K+ 2nd. Totalling to about 900K. OUCH!!!!!! Our agent told us if we were interested in the property we would need to put in an offer around 730K or so to win it ( according to his info with the asset manager of the property, there were other offers around 720K ). And now it was sold in the auction for 680K? graphics, any info you can find on the auction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


</p>
 
<p>awgee - You are so spot on on the pensions. They have been buying them up. Hopefuly they were smart enough to buy primarily the higher grades which should do fine even in a bust but without the higher profit. The Reg just did an artical on CalPers and how much they had invested in OC companies. One of them was Standard Pacific SPF which they have held for a while now. Ouch for them since the stock tanked.</p>

<p>IR - Funny you mention the Korean investors in downtown LA. I know of a Korean family that started to unload their portfolio of RE investments two years ago. I couldn't believe it because they were quality high cash flow properties but they were selling them off to other Korean investors from Korea. I guess they knew what was coming.</p>

<p>vtech22a - No worries on the name as you are not the first and probably won't be the last. Thanks for the details. I was curious because what is for sale right now is priced much higher. This could be a major comp killer. The county should have it up tomorrow or Monday. I may not have access to the document until June though. I exceeded my limit </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>NIR - Your statements are totally unfounded and are factually incorrect. The S&P 500 has outperformed real estate throughout history and for every ten year period has been up more than down when adjusted for inflation. Historically RE has barely outperformed inflation and you can spin that fact all you want but it is true. There is no cost factor for a stock like a house even if you paid cash for a house there still is a cost. Your distrust for the stock market is your opinion and what you say about it is your opinion. There is not a 10% chance that it will go up and there is not a 50% chance that RE will go up "eventually". I'm sorry if this sounds mean but that is just a stupid statement. The chances are that a stock or house will rise is 100% just as there is a 100% chance it will go down. Yes a stock can go down to $0 but you can go broke just as easily with a house because every month you have a bill to pay. The only spinning I see is you spinning the numbers to make it seem like the housing market is OK when the actual performance says otherwise. I've said this before and I will say it again I am glad people like you don't invest in the stock market because you screw it up for the rest of us. Please re-read what I posted about the investors they demanded more and more. Like a two year demanding more candy if you keep giving it to them eventually they will throw up. No need to feel sorry for anyone there just a fact of investing. Do you feel sorry for the hedge funds?</p>
 
<p>graphrix,</p>

<p>I said 10% of stocks (all), I did not say 10% of S&P 500. If I buy stocks, I would only buy S&P 500.</p>

<p>174 Vintage. I checked sale history. It was last sold on 2/2/2006 for $869,800 full price after being on the market forever. Then renter moved in, then by 11/7/2006, it was in default and listed as short sale. The $680K sounds like the 80%, so is it possible there were no taker at trustee sales and the bank for the 1st trust deed took it back?</p>
 
<p>NIR - Do you feel sorry for the hedge funds? </p>

<p>What info I have says it was sold meaning someone other than the bank bought it. If the back bought it it would say back to the beneficiary which is the bank. The first loan was $695,840 and the second $173,960 for a total of $200 down on a $870k purchase price. Seconds get wiped out at an auction because the first comes first. </p>
 
<p>graphrix,</p>

<p>If I want to get more details or keep an eye on the escrow on this particular property, how would you suggest I do it? Go through an agent? Go to the bank? I remember you said you were in mortgage? I am still in mortgage (Secondary Marketing).</p>
 
Ok back on topic. It looks like our friend also bought a place at 3037 Snead Pl. Tustin Ranch and it is or has been foreclosed on. I am working on figuring out what the heck is going on at the county. Either they are not recording NTSs or they are way behind including the REOs.
 
<p>awgee,</p>

<p>I will do a brief breakdown of the foreclosure process and what the acronyms are. </p>

<p>The first stage is NOD notice of default. This happens after a borrower in 90-120 days late. It is a recorded document and public record.</p>

<p>The second stage is NTS notice of trustee sale. This can happens about 30-60 days after the NOD is filed. This is supposed to be a recorded document and public record. However something in this part of the process is messed up right now and I don't know if it is a county problem or a lender problem. You can find these in the newspaper or on a site like <a href="http://www.fidelityasap.com">www.fidelityasap.com</a>.</p>

<p>The third stage is the auction where either a person buys the property or the bank buys it back. When the bank has to buy it it becomes REO real estate owned. This happens 31 days after the NTS is filed however it can get postponed for months and months.</p>

<p>I am not sure if I am giving you info you already know but I thought it would be good to post it anyway. </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Graphrix - I knew very little, only that NOD meant notice of default. It is surprising that the lender waits 90-120 days to file the NOD. Thanks for the education, but now I have another question. It's kind of a quirk, fault, or ... of mine. The more I find out, the more I find out I don't know much.</p>

<p>Why does the lender have to buy the property back? Does the lender actually have to pay the owner money to get the property? Or who does the lender pay? Who is the lender buying the property from? It seems to me, money is owed to the lender, so I am missing something.</p>

<p>If $400,000 is owed on the property, and the lender bids $400,001, and someone else bids $400,002, would the someone else get the property for $400,002?</p>
 
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