What would make you vote with your feet?
- Thread starter WINEX_IHB
- Start date
ipoplaya_IHB
New member
It would take a very poor employment outlook, assuming COL stays the same, to drive us of the SoCal area. Proximinity to family and friends is worth a good deal of monetary sacrifice...
FairEconomist_IHB
New member
This is a hard one to answer and not well suited for polls, because the answers aren't exclusive. Plus at least in my case where I'd move to makes a difference. It would take little to get me to move to the Bay Area, because of friends and family there. Anywhere else would take an advantage of tens of thousands per year (salary gain plus COL decrease). Either deterioration here or improvement elsewhere would be about the same for me.
AVRenter_IHB
New member
I'd leave this bitch right now if my wife weren't a native and all her family within 10 miles. It was cool when I was single - there's no better place to chase tail except maybe Austin - but I've started coming to the conclusion we pay far too many expenses, both financial and non-financial, for less and less return. There really are a lot of nice places to live outside of Cali, especially if you're raising a family, that will provide a higher standard of living. It's not the be-all-end-all some seem to make it out to be.
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Oscar_IHB
Guest
While I understand the difficulty of leaving one's roots, I would choose to feed myself in strange town rather than starve with my friends & relatives. I can't see how anything would prevent me from making that decision for my own family, now matter how painful the transition would be, if it meant making a living.
ABC123_IHB
New member
I'm lazy so I wouldn't leave unless I was completely destitute and even then I would probably be too lazy & broke to move. Maybe if all of my friends and family left, I might follow, but probably not.
irvinesinglemom_IHB
New member
I'd leave in a heartbeat if my son's father died and I was no longer shackled to the six southern CA counties by order of the court. I would go somewhere that actually had attractive single men around, a nice change of seasons, a good cultural life, and nice houses in nice neighborhoods that were affordable for someone like me. I'm thinking university town somewhere, perhaps in the midwest. Would have to be a university town, in fact, since there's no way my athiest a$$ would survive in a non-university midwestern or southern town.
[quote author="irvinesinglemom" date=1233061320]I'd leave in a heartbeat if my son's father died and I was no longer shackled to the six southern CA counties by order of the court. </blockquote>
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?
SocalianInIowa_IHB
New member
I did vote with my feet in early 06. As it happens, both my wife and I found better paying jobs in a much cheaper area to live, but we certainly would have made the move without the pay increases.
I thought the London bubble (where I worked temporarily) was out of control in 02, and thought my native OC was out of control by 03. By 05, shock had moved on to anger at the speculators and discouragement that the bubble would ever end, and we began actively looking to move somewhere that they weren't running out of land.
For now, it seems that we made a wise move, though I do obsess about moving back (or at least closer to a coast or a larger population center).
I thought the London bubble (where I worked temporarily) was out of control in 02, and thought my native OC was out of control by 03. By 05, shock had moved on to anger at the speculators and discouragement that the bubble would ever end, and we began actively looking to move somewhere that they weren't running out of land.
For now, it seems that we made a wise move, though I do obsess about moving back (or at least closer to a coast or a larger population center).
TimHume_IHB
New member
I voted with my feet in early 06 and moved out of the OC. In late 07, I voted again and moved back. I missed it too much. Yes I had a bigger house elsewhere, but there were so many other things I hated. And, actually, the house was too big. It would take a LOT to make me leave again.
socalmd_IHB
New member
I lived in Omaha for 4 years and it was the pits. Harsh cold winters and bad humidity during the summers. So I'd probably not consider the midwest. Maybe the Rocky Mountains, like Colorado....Boulder I hear is nice. Also Austin, TX...although I've never been, everyone I know who has loved it.
irvinesinglemom_IHB
New member
[quote author="WINEX" date=1233065762][quote author="irvinesinglemom" date=1233061320]I'd leave in a heartbeat if my son's father died and I was no longer shackled to the six southern CA counties by order of the court. </blockquote>
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?</blockquote>
Yes it's actually required. But that doesn't matter - a child needs his father and even if the court hadn't decreed it so, I'd still stay close by. But it definitely chains me down for the next 15 years!
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?</blockquote>
Yes it's actually required. But that doesn't matter - a child needs his father and even if the court hadn't decreed it so, I'd still stay close by. But it definitely chains me down for the next 15 years!
SoCal78_IHB
New member
[quote author="T!m" date=1233113632] And, actually, the house was too big. </blockquote>
I would love to know what that is like. Was it just too much to keep clean and maintain (not to mention heating / cooling)? I have friends in other states with homes over 4k sqft and they say the same thing. Must be a little bit nice to have too much room, though!
I would love to know what that is like. Was it just too much to keep clean and maintain (not to mention heating / cooling)? I have friends in other states with homes over 4k sqft and they say the same thing. Must be a little bit nice to have too much room, though!
TimHume_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1233117014]
I would love to know what that is like. Was it just too much to keep clean and maintain (not to mention heating / cooling)? I have friends in other states with homes over 4k sqft and they say the same thing. Must be a little bit nice to have too much room, though!</blockquote>
As you wish. We sold a 1600 sq. ft. detached condo in Aliso Viejo and, for less money, bought a 3400 sq. ft. (4600 sq. ft. if you include the finished walk-out basement) house in a top suburb of St. Louis with about a half acre of land. It was too much to clean and too expensive to heat, cool, and maintain. The lack of harsh weather in SoCal is much easier on houses. There we had rain, sleet, snow, and ice. These are hard on the house, but also hard on a yard. The yard also had to deal with grubs and moles. I don't like doing house work and yard work. Having more of both meant I spent more time and money on both. The big yard was more for me to mow. The landscaping was more mulch to buy. The 3-car wide driveway was more snow to shovel. The trees dropped a lot of leaves. Etc.
Oh, and don't forget the cost to decorate and furnish the house. Carpeting a 1600 sq. ft. place with 1 staircase is one thing. Carpeting 4600 sq. ft. with 2 staircases is another. Window treatments -- same thing. We had 2 bedrooms and a formal living room that we never furnished. If we'd had 5 kids, we might have wanted the space, but we don't have 5 kids. We learned we like warm & cozy over cold & grand.
This was experientially learning the lesson that bigger is not the same as better.
As for the geography, we really missed being able to be comfortable outside almost any time. We had a big deck on the back of our house that looked over our yard and some open space. But we rarely wanted to sit out there due to heat, cold, or bugs. Not being able to take walks, eat outside, or whatever really affected our daily mood. Much more than we expected.
I could go on, but you get the point. I think I've even posted more info in a post a year or so ago.
I would love to know what that is like. Was it just too much to keep clean and maintain (not to mention heating / cooling)? I have friends in other states with homes over 4k sqft and they say the same thing. Must be a little bit nice to have too much room, though!</blockquote>
As you wish. We sold a 1600 sq. ft. detached condo in Aliso Viejo and, for less money, bought a 3400 sq. ft. (4600 sq. ft. if you include the finished walk-out basement) house in a top suburb of St. Louis with about a half acre of land. It was too much to clean and too expensive to heat, cool, and maintain. The lack of harsh weather in SoCal is much easier on houses. There we had rain, sleet, snow, and ice. These are hard on the house, but also hard on a yard. The yard also had to deal with grubs and moles. I don't like doing house work and yard work. Having more of both meant I spent more time and money on both. The big yard was more for me to mow. The landscaping was more mulch to buy. The 3-car wide driveway was more snow to shovel. The trees dropped a lot of leaves. Etc.
Oh, and don't forget the cost to decorate and furnish the house. Carpeting a 1600 sq. ft. place with 1 staircase is one thing. Carpeting 4600 sq. ft. with 2 staircases is another. Window treatments -- same thing. We had 2 bedrooms and a formal living room that we never furnished. If we'd had 5 kids, we might have wanted the space, but we don't have 5 kids. We learned we like warm & cozy over cold & grand.
This was experientially learning the lesson that bigger is not the same as better.
As for the geography, we really missed being able to be comfortable outside almost any time. We had a big deck on the back of our house that looked over our yard and some open space. But we rarely wanted to sit out there due to heat, cold, or bugs. Not being able to take walks, eat outside, or whatever really affected our daily mood. Much more than we expected.
I could go on, but you get the point. I think I've even posted more info in a post a year or so ago.
25w100k+_IHB
New member
If I got a shot at working on a few particular projects at certain companies, I'd consider moving. Other then that though, I like it here.
kcmkane_IHB
New member
[quote author="T!m" date=1233121473]
As you wish. We sold a 1600 sq. ft. detached condo in Aliso Viejo and, for less money, bought a 3400 sq. ft. (4600 sq. ft. if you include the finished walk-out basement) house in a top suburb of St. Louis with about a half acre of land. It was too much to clean and too expensive to heat, cool, and maintain. The lack of harsh weather in SoCal is much easier on houses. There we had rain, sleet, snow, and ice. These are hard on the house, but also hard on a yard. The yard also had to deal with grubs and moles. I don't like doing house work and yard work. Having more of both meant I spent more time and money on both. The big yard was more for me to mow. The landscaping was more mulch to buy. The 3-car wide driveway was more snow to shovel. The trees dropped a lot of leaves. Etc.
Oh, and don't forget the cost to decorate and furnish the house. Carpeting a 1600 sq. ft. place with 1 staircase is one thing. Carpeting 4600 sq. ft. with 2 staircases is another. Window treatments -- same thing. We had 2 bedrooms and a formal living room that we never furnished. If we'd had 5 kids, we might have wanted the space, but we don't have 5 kids. We learned we like warm & cozy over cold & grand.
This was experientially learning the lesson that bigger is not the same as better.
As for the geography, we really missed being able to be comfortable outside almost any time. We had a big deck on the back of our house that looked over our yard and some open space. But we rarely wanted to sit out there due to heat, cold, or bugs. Not being able to take walks, eat outside, or whatever really affected our daily mood. Much more than we expected.
I could go on, but you get the point. I think I've even posted more info in a post a year or so ago.</blockquote>
Thank you for this, Tim --- excellent post. Having lived the first 18 years of my life in the Midwest (and unfortunately having to travel back there and other places often), I cannot agree more. I really do not think most of the native So Cal'ers I encounter on a day to day basis can appreciate how much the weather and other oddities you experience *out there* impact your day to day life. Invariably every day someone here in OC says "Ohhh, look at what a big house I can get in _____". But until they experience the usually drastic change in lifestyle, they don't get why stuff is so much cheaper *out there*. I'm sure there are some people who enjoy spending their Saturday mornings from Nov - March shoveling snow rather than taking a bike ride --- but it sure ain't me. I'll take that 1600 sq ft place over a mcmansion in Texas, Arizona, Georgia, or anyplace else for that matter.
As you wish. We sold a 1600 sq. ft. detached condo in Aliso Viejo and, for less money, bought a 3400 sq. ft. (4600 sq. ft. if you include the finished walk-out basement) house in a top suburb of St. Louis with about a half acre of land. It was too much to clean and too expensive to heat, cool, and maintain. The lack of harsh weather in SoCal is much easier on houses. There we had rain, sleet, snow, and ice. These are hard on the house, but also hard on a yard. The yard also had to deal with grubs and moles. I don't like doing house work and yard work. Having more of both meant I spent more time and money on both. The big yard was more for me to mow. The landscaping was more mulch to buy. The 3-car wide driveway was more snow to shovel. The trees dropped a lot of leaves. Etc.
Oh, and don't forget the cost to decorate and furnish the house. Carpeting a 1600 sq. ft. place with 1 staircase is one thing. Carpeting 4600 sq. ft. with 2 staircases is another. Window treatments -- same thing. We had 2 bedrooms and a formal living room that we never furnished. If we'd had 5 kids, we might have wanted the space, but we don't have 5 kids. We learned we like warm & cozy over cold & grand.
This was experientially learning the lesson that bigger is not the same as better.
As for the geography, we really missed being able to be comfortable outside almost any time. We had a big deck on the back of our house that looked over our yard and some open space. But we rarely wanted to sit out there due to heat, cold, or bugs. Not being able to take walks, eat outside, or whatever really affected our daily mood. Much more than we expected.
I could go on, but you get the point. I think I've even posted more info in a post a year or so ago.</blockquote>
Thank you for this, Tim --- excellent post. Having lived the first 18 years of my life in the Midwest (and unfortunately having to travel back there and other places often), I cannot agree more. I really do not think most of the native So Cal'ers I encounter on a day to day basis can appreciate how much the weather and other oddities you experience *out there* impact your day to day life. Invariably every day someone here in OC says "Ohhh, look at what a big house I can get in _____". But until they experience the usually drastic change in lifestyle, they don't get why stuff is so much cheaper *out there*. I'm sure there are some people who enjoy spending their Saturday mornings from Nov - March shoveling snow rather than taking a bike ride --- but it sure ain't me. I'll take that 1600 sq ft place over a mcmansion in Texas, Arizona, Georgia, or anyplace else for that matter.
TimHume_IHB
New member
[quote author="CK" date=1233123740]
Thank you for this, Tim --- excellent post. Having lived the first 18 years of my life in the Midwest (and unfortunately having to travel back there and other places often), I cannot agree more.</blockquote>
Thanks. And for the record - in case others think I am ignorantly bashing - I grew up in Iowa and Missouri. I moved to the OC after college. I loved the Midwest when I was growing up. I just don't want to live there now.
Thank you for this, Tim --- excellent post. Having lived the first 18 years of my life in the Midwest (and unfortunately having to travel back there and other places often), I cannot agree more.</blockquote>
Thanks. And for the record - in case others think I am ignorantly bashing - I grew up in Iowa and Missouri. I moved to the OC after college. I loved the Midwest when I was growing up. I just don't want to live there now.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="irvinesinglemom" date=1233116962][quote author="WINEX" date=1233065762][quote author="irvinesinglemom" date=1233061320]I'd leave in a heartbeat if my son's father died and I was no longer shackled to the six southern CA counties by order of the court. </blockquote>
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?</blockquote>
Yes it's actually required. But that doesn't matter - a child needs his father and even if the court hadn't decreed it so, I'd still stay close by. But it definitely chains me down for the next 15 years!</blockquote>
My admiration for you just increased immensely.
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you have a court order preventing you from moving. Is that common in divorces these days?</blockquote>
Yes it's actually required. But that doesn't matter - a child needs his father and even if the court hadn't decreed it so, I'd still stay close by. But it definitely chains me down for the next 15 years!</blockquote>
My admiration for you just increased immensely.